pathfinder, 10' reach flurry

[evilserran]

Grippli. Tongue feat for ten foot touch attacks. Combine this with flurry of blows. Tongue is part of body and reaches ten feet. Monk can flurry with tongue at 10'. Flurry still hits regular ac of course, though. What say you? Legit?

[grarrrg]

Grippli. Tongue feat for ten foot touch attacks. Combine this with flurry of blows. Tongue is part of body and reaches ten feet. Monk can flurry with tongue at 10'. Flurry still hits regular ac of course, though. What say you? Legit?

The tongue itself is not an actual attack.
It would not work with Flurry for a variety of reasons (does not have the "monk" special, is not a manufactured weapon, etc...).

The term "melee touch attacks" generally refers to Spells that require you to touch the opponent to deliver them.

There might be something here a Magus can work with.

[facelessminion]

I suppose this would depend on your GM. The tongue itself isn't really an attack, but it IS certainly part of your body, and monks are able to use any part of their body for attacks...

Eh. I doubt most would allow it, but I would... Monks need all the help they can get, anyway.

[evilserran]

I suppose this would depend on your GM. The tongue itself isn't really an attack, but it IS certainly part of your body, and monks are able to use any part of their body for attacks...

Eh. I doubt most would allow it, but I would... Monks need all the help they can get, anyway.

this is what I'm saying. the only part of the feat allowing speciofically mentioning the tongue allows it to make touch attacks at 10'. But the tongue isn't actually delivering touch attacks, it's being measured at 10'. The following part is where flurry of blows allows any body part to land the actual attack, so you can still flurry while your hands are full, etc. If a specific body part has a ten foot reach, then in theory the flurry with that body part should be/could be (depending on p.o.v.) 10' with reach. I would say 90% of the ruling is based of monk's flurry of blows, and only 10% off the feat, since all you are confirming is the fact that your tongue is 10' and can touch someone 10' away as part of an attack.

[Psyren]

"You can make touch attacks with your tongue." Flurry is not a touch attack.

[grarrrg]

Technically a Monk can NOT make attacks with "any" part of his body.
Linky: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-Unarmed-Strike)

A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
Anything not listed cannot, by RAW, be used to deliver an Unarmed Strike.

So you are entirely in "ask your DM" territory now.
I'd say something like a Headbutt should be perfectly fine, but the Tongue wouldn't work as it 'lacks impact' and whatnot. Kinda like how a Whip is fairly worthless as an _actual_ weapon, unless you take the Whip Mastery line of feats.

[Turion]

Technically a Monk can NOT make attacks with "any" part of his body.
Linky: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-Unarmed-Strike)

Anything not listed cannot, by RAW, be used to deliver an Unarmed Strike.

So you are entirely in "ask your DM" territory now.
I'd say something like a Headbutt should be perfectly fine, but the Tongue wouldn't work as it 'lacks impact' and whatnot. Kinda like how a Whip is fairly worthless as an _actual_ weapon, unless you take the Whip Mastery line of feats.

Now I want to play a Grippli with the Tongue Mastery line...

[grarrrg]

Now I want to play a Grippli with the Tongue Mastery line...

^ this ^910

[Feint's End]

It doesn't work that way neither by RAW nor by RAI.

If a player requests it I would probably allow it but it would look stupid as hell.

[evilserran]

How would it look stupid? E=MC^2. Energy equals mass times speed squared, i.e. speed is the more important factor, if a frog can flick its tongue out to catch at fly on average 3inches away, and back into its mouth at a crazy speed of 15/100ths of a second. This in MPH is equivilant to 2.273mph. And this is a little tiny everyday frog. Now your average frog is approximatly 33 cm long, as they are horizontal its the way to measure vs height. A grippli however, being humanoid is based of height. Now, this Frog's tongue covers the same time frame but a massively larger area. Literally 40x longer,(10 feet out, ten feet back in) which would put the mph on average around 90.8 mph. Now combine that speed, with the small surface area of the tongue, vs the size of a fist, and you will find the very same amount of force per square inch applied as in a human beings punch. However, the attacks actually resolve faster and with pin point accuracy of the frog. Rather then waggling the tongue around like a whip, think of it more as flying out of the mouth on each attack like a darting cobra, too fast for the eye to follow, and near unerring accuracy. I'd rather tell a shaolin I am a baby murdering psychopath, then piss of that 2' tall frog...

[firebrandtoluc]

If you're going to get your physics mixed up in your DnD, you should note that the increased scale results in exponential increase in force. Not linear as you suggest.

Regardless, this is DM choice. I'd allow it as long as the rule of cool was respected. Mechanically it's not a problem.

[khachaturian]

How would it look stupid? E=MC^2. Energy equals mass times speed squared, i.e. speed is the more important factor, if a frog can flick its tongue out to catch at fly on average 3inches away, and back into its mouth at a crazy speed of 15/100ths of a second. This in MPH is equivilant to 2.273mph. And this is a little tiny everyday frog. Now your average frog is approximatly 33 cm long, as they are horizontal its the way to measure vs height. A grippli however, being humanoid is based of height. Now, this Frog's tongue covers the same time frame but a massively larger area. Literally 40x longer,(10 feet out, ten feet back in) which would put the mph on average around 90.8 mph. Now combine that speed, with the small surface area of the tongue, vs the size of a fist, and you will find the very same amount of force per square inch applied as in a human beings punch. However, the attacks actually resolve faster and with pin point accuracy of the frog. Rather then waggling the tongue around like a whip, think of it more as flying out of the mouth on each attack like a darting cobra, too fast for the eye to follow, and near unerring accuracy. I'd rather tell a shaolin I am a baby murdering psychopath, then piss of that 2' tall frog...

physics fail

[evilserran]

My physics did not fail, i was not solving for the actual force, i was only solving for speed, base speed, to show a comparison. Which you could then reference the force equation to take it further if you wished. Ergo, the part i solved for, was actually linear for the speed. So attempt to disprove my physics = fail.