Could someone help clarify some issues with magic armor? (Pathfinder)

[Odessa333]

Hey there!

So I'm trying to learn the tricks to magic armor, getting a nice high AC, and a handy discount with crafting. I have a level 12 Cleric with plenty of gold, taking craft magic arms and armor, and I'm trying to figure out the best AC armor I can craft and/or afford. I've read the rules, but I'm still not clear on a few things.

1. Some specific armors are listed with a specific bonus, like Celestial full plate is a Full plate +3. Can you make/find a items that go over these listed numbers, like a celestial plate mail with a +5 bonus, or is that not allowed? How would you calculate the cost of such a thing if allowed?

2. In trying to figure out the highest AC (assuming all proficiency and high enough DEX for max benefit) I look at things like Celestial full plate vs mithral full plate +5. Mithral full plate +5 mail gives you your standard 9 AC for full plate, +5 enchantment, and allows 3 DEX for a total of 17. Celestial Full Plate is supposed to be a full plate +3... but it allows for 6 DEX. 9 for full plate, +3 enchantment, and this 6 DEX bonus and we get 18 AC. How does that work, mechanically? How does a set of full plate with a lower enchantment bonus give that much more DEX, and allow for a Fly spell as well?

3. If you have a set of Mithral Full Plate +5, and cast an enchantment spell like Magic Vestment, does it do anything? Both are enchantment effects if I'm reading this right, so I don't think they stack. It's one of those those things that confuses me, as the bonus from Magic Vestment can be dispelled, but the bonus from Mithral full plate +5 can't be dispelled to my knowledge. Or am I wrong?


So yea, clarification would be a huge help. Bottom line, I'm trying to figure out the system's top AC armor's and their cost, and not getting anywhere on my own research. Any help would be appreciated! As always, thank you for your time.

V

[Giddonihah]

1. Modifing named items is a tricky buisness. I know some people will calculate the worth of the bonuses by calculating the standard cost of the known elements: Full Plate +3, then finding how much the speical named element is worth, from their some gms might let you treat it as normal weaponry and enchant it further for the normal cost.

2. Its a named armor, which can let it have speical properties like that. Also its AC in potentia may be higher but you are discounting the fact that DEX ac aint free.

3. I do not believe magic vestment would do anything, now if the armor was say +1 Heavy Fortification Armor, I believe you could magic vestment it up.

[Odessa333]

Interesting idea... not sure how i'd make it work, though. The only property I could price out would be it's 'fly' spell. The part that makes it truly mind boggling is that high DEX bonus on a suit of full plate mail, and I don't think there is a way to price that out. You'd think this would be a common enough asked question there would be a FAQ by now. Oy.

[tomandtish]

2. In trying to figure out the highest AC (assuming all proficiency and high enough DEX for max benefit) I look at things like Celestial full plate vs mithral full plate +5. Mithral full plate +5 mail gives you your standard 9 AC for full plate, +5 enchantment, and allows 3 DEX for a total of 17. Celestial Full Plate is supposed to be a full plate +3... but it allows for 6 DEX. 9 for full plate, +3 enchantment, and this 6 DEX bonus and we get 18 AC. How does that work, mechanically? How does a set of full plate with a lower enchantment bonus give that much more DEX, and allow for a Fly spell as well?

I play 3.5, not Pathfinder, so I'm not sure if they do the exact same thing, but I've heard they are similar enough, so here goes. In 3.5, Mithril is listed as 1/2 the weight of iron. Armor classified as it is classified as one category lighter. So your full plate is medium armor. It therefore gives you reduced armor check and Dex penalties. I assume Celestial plate weighs even less. Looking at that Dex bonus I suspect it is light armor? Assuming the celestial material itself is a natural substance (maybe very rare but natural as opposed to requiring magic to create it), then the Celestial full plate may very well have a lower enchanting cost (although a higher base cost for the raw materials). Cost of the Flight power depends on how often it can be used.


3. If you have a set of Mithral Full Plate +5, and cast an enchantment spell like Magic Vestment, does it do anything? Both are enchantment effects if I'm reading this right, so I don't think they stack. It's one of those those things that confuses me, as the bonus from Magic Vestment can be dispelled, but the bonus from Mithral full plate +5 can't be dispelled to my knowledge. Or am I wrong?

So yea, clarification would be a huge help. Bottom line, I'm trying to figure out the system's top AC armor's and their cost, and not getting anywhere on my own research. Any help would be appreciated! As always, thank you for your time.



Bonuses of the same type don't stack. You simply get the higher one. So If you have +5 armor and Magic Vestment gives +3, you get the +5. If you have +1 Armor and Magic Vestment gives +3, you get the +3.

As for dispelling (in 3.5 anyway), you can dispel a spell since it is temporary. You can suppress the armor (since it is permanent). So a successful Dispel Magic on the armor would suppress the magical properties for 1d4 rounds.

[Yanisa]

I play 3.5, not Pathfinder, so I'm not sure if they do the exact same thing, but I've heard they are similar enough, so here goes. In 3.5, Mithril is listed as 1/2 the weight of iron. Armor classified as it is classified as one category lighter. So your full plate is medium armor. It therefore gives you reduced armor check and Dex penalties. I assume Celestial plate weighs even less. Looking at that Dex bonus I suspect it is light armor? Assuming the celestial material itself is a natural substance (maybe very rare but natural as opposed to requiring magic to create it), then the Celestial full plate may very well have a lower enchanting cost (although a higher base cost for the raw materials). Cost of the Flight power depends on how often it can be used.

Celestial Plate Armor (or Celestial Full Plate) is medium armor.


As for question 1:
You can upgrade it rather easily in pathfinder. To upgrade you just need to pay the difference in gold... Even though the armor has a bunch of extras, the basic costs of +3 are unchanged, so we can simply use the different in + plus modifiers..

To upgrade any armor from +3 to +4 you need to pay (16.000 - 9.000 =) 7.000 GP
Upgrading from +3 to +5 would be (25.000 - 9.000 =) 16.000 GP

2:
Don't question prices too much, the fluff seems to be that celestial armor is even lighter then mithral, because it's divine and holy and all that. But it's not that much more expensive...

A Flying Mithral Full Plate +3 would cost 24.900 (+3 dex, -3 ACP, 25% sf)
A Mithral full plate would cost 10.500 (9.000 + 1.500)
+3 enchantment cost 9.000
The fly enchantment would cost 5.400 (3 x 5 x 1,800/5)

It seems you pay 100 GP for +3 dex and 5% less spell failure, I have no clue how that pricing worked. :smallconfused:

Also Celestial Armor gives 6 (chainmail) +3 (enhancement) + 8 dex... 17 total... And it is completely light armor, so you move at full speed. You don't even need medium armor proficiency.

[Nibbens]

Don't forget, costs are calculated by total value. Celestial armor is +3 but also has fly once per day, as well as other nifty bonuses - So +3 armor + fly enchantment (whatever that would cost, for the sake of argument we'll say +2) for a total of +5. So in order to increase the armor enchantment from +3 to +4 you would actually be going from +5 to + 6 (36,000 (for +6 armor) minus cost of celestial plate 22,400 = 13,600)

Actually, using that logic, we know that 13,400gp is the cost of the armor without it's +3, so the armor itself plus the fly enchantment is somewhere in the neighborhood of a +3.5 cost

The full enchantment level of the armor is just a smidgen under +5. So if I'd rule that to bring the enchantment from +3 to +4 would cost 13,600.

... Looking at it this way, that armor is grossly under-priced considering the power as +6 armor should cost 36k, where as celestial armor costs 22.4k ... Gah, I hope my math and logic are wrong. lol.