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View Full Version : Lowest LA playable (winged) character?



knewsom
2007-02-26, 07:02 PM
I'm thinking it's probably Aasimar with the feat, right? If not, then half-dragon?

I'm just thinking about new character options... I'm tossing around an idea for a flying ranged/unarmed fighter.

Khantalas
2007-02-26, 07:04 PM
Raptoran. Though you have to wait some time to get the ability to fly.

If you won't wait, Winged template is your best bet.

knewsom
2007-02-26, 07:05 PM
sorry, just realized I left out "winged" in the threat title... *sigh*. There's a "Winged" template?

knewsom
2007-02-26, 07:06 PM
What book are the Raptorans in?

Stevenson
2007-02-26, 07:08 PM
Races of the wild, I think.

Tellah
2007-02-26, 07:10 PM
Yeah, it's Races of the Wild. Flight, +1 CL to "air" spells, favored class cleric. The flight mechanic is really odd, though, between levels 5 and 10. I have them as tengu in my Japanish campaign.

knewsom
2007-02-26, 07:32 PM
rad! What's so odd about the flight mechanic though? and do you have to take the racial levels to improve it?

JaronK
2007-02-26, 07:36 PM
No, but your flight abilities are based on your HD (including class HD). Basically, it means you can't fly at level one, but by level 10 you can fly all over the place.

JaronK

knewsom
2007-02-26, 07:39 PM
Hmm.... It'd almost be worth it to be an Aasimar with the appropriate feat for wings and be able to fly right away.... that and the whole energy resistance thing.

Toliudar
2007-02-26, 07:42 PM
What's the feat that allows Aasimars to fly?

Khantalas
2007-02-26, 07:43 PM
Outsider Wings (?) from Races of Faerun.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-26, 09:04 PM
Can you use Outsider Wings if you take that reduced-LA variant Aasimar?

Redwizard26
2007-02-26, 09:49 PM
Ask the DM, Reduced LA isn't exactly by the book.

MrNexx
2007-02-26, 09:51 PM
Ummm... you can't take Outsider Wings right away. It has at least 1 prereq feat.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-26, 09:54 PM
Ask the DM, Reduced LA isn't exactly by the book.No, I mean, there IS one in I think the FRCS, it takes some of the abilities away, and you get 0 LA. I can't remeber what book it's in though, which is why I asked.

Ryuuk
2007-02-26, 09:58 PM
There's also kobolds via Races of Dragons. It would take a feat at 1st level for wings which let you glide and jump higher; another feat (6th maybe?) strengthens them and lets you actually fly.

brian c
2007-02-26, 10:30 PM
There's also kobolds via Races of Dragons. It would take a feat at 1st level for wings which let you glide and jump higher; another feat (6th maybe?) strengthens them and lets you actually fly.

Woo Kobolds! The feats are Dragon Wings (glide, +10 jump) and improved Dragon Wings (average flight, prereq 6HD). Alternative way to do this, should anyone want to be a flying Kobold, is to take Dragonwrought Kobold at 1st level, which allows you to take Dragon Wings at 3rd. OR without being Dragonwrought, take Wings at 1st, Reinforced Wings at 3rd (req 13 strength, fly/glide with medium load/medium armor) and Improved Wings at 6th.

Darrin
2007-02-26, 10:54 PM
I'm thinking it's probably Aasimar with the feat, right? If not, then half-dragon?

You could also take Precocious Apprentice at 1st level, and get Alter Self... lasts only 10 minutes, though.

That and most sane people consider Precocious Apprentice to be bah-row-ken.

jjpickar
2007-02-26, 11:00 PM
Favored Souls and Dragon Disciples eventually fly... at 15+ level however.:smallfrown:

Zincorium
2007-02-26, 11:16 PM
No, I mean, there IS one in I think the FRCS, it takes some of the abilities away, and you get 0 LA. I can't remeber what book it's in though, which is why I asked.

Forgotten realms players guide, and the difference is that you get all the disadvantages of being a humanoid and all the disadvantages of being an outsider. Stats and special abilities are all the same. I probably wouldn't allow it as the DM.

Darrin
2007-02-26, 11:45 PM
No, I mean, there IS one in I think the FRCS, it takes some of the abilities away, and you get 0 LA. I can't remeber what book it's in though, which is why I asked.

You could also just use the racial class levels for Aasimar, and either delay your one racial level until later or just not take it:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

starwoof
2007-02-26, 11:56 PM
If you dont want to buy RotW for raptorans, WotC has them online.

Raptoran (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1)

Darrin
2007-02-26, 11:56 PM
Ummm... you can't take Outsider Wings right away. It has at least 1 prereq feat.

I think the requirements are Celestial or Fiendish bloodline (which seems a bit redundant if you're full-blooded Aasimar or Tiefling) and all your saves need to be at least +2.

Adding a Half-Fey template is only a +2 LA, gives you butterfly wings and Flight = 2x highest normal movement.

Probably a graft out there that might work, too.

MrNexx
2007-02-27, 12:36 AM
I think the requirements are Celestial or Fiendish bloodline (which seems a bit redundant if you're full-blooded Aasimar or Tiefling) and all your saves need to be at least +2.


Not if you're a planetouched because your ancestor was a deity, as many in Faerun are. To get Outsider Wings, therefore, you need to be at least level 3 (if you're a monk or multiclassed) or even later if single-classed.

Fizban
2007-02-27, 01:32 AM
Who says you need kobolds for dragon wings?

Human, 1st level and bonus feat: Draconic Heritage and Dragon wings. Heritage gets you the dragonblood subtype, dragon wings requres dragonblood subtype (check) and 1st level only (check). Improved Dragon Wings once you've got the chance will get you the temprorary flight and increased it to full at 12th.

Or, any race+draconic template+dragon wings+improved dragon wings. Cost of +1 LA and 2 feats though.

In any case, I prefer the dragon wings feats to the raptoran flight, even though they use the same HD based system. Why? With the feats, you're learning to use your wings, with the raptoran you're just born with wings that arbitrarily suck, then arbitrarily get better. The entire raptoran way of life presented requires that the entire community be lv5+, and so they give some excuse that once a raptoran comes of age they get the boot until they level up enough.

Other options inlcude the outsider wings tree for aasimar/tiefling, one of several +2 LA races with flight, the +2 LA winged template, or the Air Mephling in the planar handbook that has flight 10' perfect for +1 LA. There's several feats and low level spells to boost that speed.

TheOOB
2007-02-27, 02:15 AM
Well one could assume that raptoreans, living the harsh life they do, usually are 5th level by the time they reach maturity.

AtomicKitKat
2007-02-27, 09:53 PM
OR without being Dragonwrought, take Wings at 1st, Reinforced Wings at 3rd (req 13 strength, fly/glide with medium load/medium armor) and Improved Wings at 6th.

I think the last two feats are reversed. You need to get a fly speed before you can reinforce the wings.

I personally like half-fey(Oddly, the PDF from Crystalkeep claims they're LA+1, but Fiend Folio says +2, and the 3.5 update booklet and Fiend Folio update PDFs don't mention their LA at all...)

Other methods not mentioned so far are Warlocks(wings of flowing darkness I think), and the Aberrant Feats from Lords of Madness. The latter gives you transluscent membranous wings. Costs 2 or 3 feats though, so about the same investment as Dragon Wings.

AmberVael
2007-02-27, 09:58 PM
The Lords of Madness one doesn't give you a long flight time though, and you need a number of feats to get it.

EDIT:

Feat 1) Aberration Blood
Feat 2) Any Aberrant Feat
Feat 3) Starspawn, which gives a slow flight speed with average manuverability and a flight length of 1+con modifier (min 1).

Shisumo
2007-02-28, 08:52 PM
If temporary wings are on the table, Celestial Sorcerer Heritage and Celestial Sorcerer Wings are available to a 1st level human sorcerer.

AtomicKitKat
2007-02-28, 11:52 PM
The Lords of Madness one doesn't give you a long flight time though, and you need a number of feats to get it.

EDIT:

Feat 1) Aberration Blood
Feat 2) Any Aberrant Feat
Feat 3) Starspawn, which gives a slow flight speed with average manuverability and a flight length of 1+con modifier (min 1).

Feat 2=Deepspawn(Inhuman Reach? If that can't be taken cos it also requires 2 Aberrant Feats, it can always be Feat 4). Extra tentacles(or greater natural reach) are always fun options. :D I could have sworn Starspawn granted Con+1 hours of flight or something. *checks LoM* Hmm, duration in rounds. It only says "consecutive rounds" though, so if you can somehow prevent yourself from falling too far in a single round, and you had a Con of 12-16+, you could fly for 2 rounds, take a break for one round, and continue again, or even fly the full 3(+) rounds before taking a break. If you're planning on using it for combat, I don't really see too much of a problem, if you can find a ledge to land on between rounds(that and average maneouvrability creatures take a long-time to change direction if you're going the Flyby Attack route).

Fizban
2007-03-01, 03:11 AM
Well one could assume that raptoreans, living the harsh life they do, usually are 5th level by the time they reach maturity.
But if they did then there wouldn't need to be that bit about getting sent off until they can fly. I prefer your way, all raptorans are lv5+ by virtue of living diffficult lives. The DMG has level bonuses for NPC's living in harsh climates, so there's a precedent, though I think those topped out at +3. Anyway, back on topic....

I have to say celestial sorcerer wings is quite underwhelming, not really worth it. Only lasts one round/level of the slot sacrificed, ouch. On temporary flight speeds granted by feats, Draconic Flight lets you fly for one round whenever you cast a spell, at a speed of 10'/level. It doesn't list maneuverability though.

If you assume any creature with wings gets the same gliding bonuses many PC races get now, then the starspawn feat should let you glide between flights like a raptoran/dragonborn/etc.

Which reminds me, the Dragonborn of Bahamut (I think it was), from Races of the Dragon can choose between extra senses, a breath weapon, or flight. They get the same flight as having both dragon wings feats would give, along with some other bonuses. Best part is that it's more like a template that any creature can take with some cash and suitable in game reasons. It might have a +1 LA though.

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-01, 10:32 AM
If you assume any creature with wings gets the same gliding bonuses many PC races get now, then the starspawn feat should let you glide between flights like a raptoran/dragonborn/etc.

Nod, I was thinking along the same lines. Fly a couple rounds, then glide/freefall for one, and resume.

Quietus
2007-03-01, 10:52 AM
I don't believe that the Dragonborn template has a level adjustment, actually. Nice little class, I like it.

Mikal
2007-03-01, 06:18 PM
I'd just go with winged template myself from SS. +2 LA for +4 dex, +2 wis, decent winged speed and maneuverability based on your dex score. very economical.