Colubriloth [PEACH]

[kinem]

Colubriloth

Medium-Size Outsider (Evil, Yugoloth)
Hit Dice: 14d8+56 (119 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft.
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
AC: 27 (+3 Dex, +10 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 13, flat-footed 24
BAB/Grapple: +14/+20
Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d6+6) or MW Greatsword +22 melee (2d6+9/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 slams +20 melee (1d6+6) and 2 bites +16 melee (1d4+3+poison) or MW Greatsword +22/+17/+12 melee (2d6+9/19-20) and 2 bites +16 melee (1d4+3+poison)
Special Attacks: Poison, spell-like abilities, hasten death, divine spells
Special Qualities: DR 10/good, darkvision 60', SR 26, yugoloth traits (immune to poison and acid; cold, fire, and electricity resistance 10; telepathy 100'), scent
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +13
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 18
Skills: Climb +21, Concentration +20, Heal +19, Intimidate +21, Sense Motive +19, Spot +19, Listen +19, Knowledge (the planes) +17, Knowledge (religion) +17
Feats: Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (greatsword), Power Attack, Improved Toughness, Improved Initiative, Eschew Materials [B], Spell Penetration [B]
Climate/Terrain: Any (Gehenna)
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 15-28 HD (medium)
Level Adjustment: +5

A colubriloth is scaly and dark green in color. Where the head and neck would be on a humanoid, it has two long snake-like heads. They function as medics for the more powerful yugoloths, doing so in exchange for being allowed to use their hasten death power on the battlefields even on lesser yugoloths that are unconscious and dying. The colubriloths' ability to restore outsiders to life by preparing the proper spells (especially the True Ressurection spells that an advanced (17+HD) colubriloth could prepare) is greatly important to many powerful fiends and earns them much respect from powerful yugoloths.

Because yugoloths fear the colubriloth's hasten death ability, it cannot summon other yugoloths.

Colubriloths don't worship a diety; instead, they draw power from the essense of the planes.

Colubriloths speak Abyssal, Draconic, and Infernal.

Even if a colubriloth loses both of its heads (such as to vorpal attacks), it doesn't die; its brain is within its torso. However, such a colubriloth would be blind and deaf and would lose its scent ability unless a head were restored.

Combat:
Poison (Ex): An colubriloth’s bites can inject a poison (Fort negates DC 20, Con-based). Initial damage and secondary damage: 1d3 temporary Con damage.

Hasten death (Su): As a swift action, it can target a living creature within 100'. The target takes 3d6 damage (Fort half DC 21, Cha-based). If the target dies as a result and had an intelligence score of at least 5, the colubriloth gains 10 temporary hit points (which don't stack, and last up to 24 hours) and can recharge one of its spell-like abilities, allowing that ability to be used again that day if it was used already. Each ability can be recharged up to a maximum of twice per day, for a total of 3 uses per day.

Spell-Like Abilities: Each up to 1/day unless recharged — blade barrier (14d6, reflex half DC 20), greater teleport (self + up to 50 lbs of gear only), flame strike (14d6, Reflex half DC 19), harm (140 hp, Will half DC 20), heal (140 hp), lion's charge (SpC), mass heal (140 hp), mage's sword (+22 attack, 4d6+3/19-20), shield (+4 AC), true seeing, wraithstrike (SpC). Caster level 14 (+16 vs SR); save DC 14 + spell level (Charisma-based).

Divine Spells: The colubriloth can prepare and cast a limited number of cleric spells each day. It can prepare up to a total of 14 spell levels of spells (or as many spell levels as it has HD from whatever source; caster level is 14, as HD). The maximum spell level is 7 at 14 HD, 8 at 15-16 HD, and 9 at 17+ HD. Cantrips count as 1/2 of a spell level for this purpose. The save DCs are Wisdom based. These are actual spells, not spell-like abilities, and the colubriloth must supply any expensive material components needed.

Typical spells prepared (and spell level): silence (level 2, Will partial DC 14), blindness/deafness (level 3, Fort neg DC 15), mass cure moderate wounds (level 6, 2d8+14), wind wall (level 3); total spell levels = 2 + 3 + 6 + 3 = 14.

Advancement: Increase the caster level for the spell-like abilities and the 'loths' SR by 1 for every class level gained, and by 1 for every 2 racial HD above 14.

Yugoloth Traits: A yugoloth is immune to poison and acid. It has cold, fire, and electricity resistance 10. Yugoloths can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish).

[Debihuman]

I sorta like these even though there isn't much in the way of fluff. You could flesh these out a lot better. There are some issues with both the stat block and with the mechanics.

Type is Outsider; Subtypes are Evil, Yugoloth.

Culubriloth
Medium Outsider (Evil, Yugoloth)

With it's long snake heads, should it have reach 10 feet with its bites?

Slam attacks shouldn't be iterative, not even as a special ability because it screws up the CR. It would never use its slam attacks since it has a weapon that's better anyway.

Attack line is missing.

Full Attacks are separated by "or" A +B or C + B and belong on the same line.

Damage should be noted as (2d6+9/19-20).

You've given it some weird mechanics that make it hard to assess. Recharging is too complicated. Give them more daily uses of their abilities so that the mechanics are in the right places. If can do something 3 times a day why should the DM have to check two places? K.I.S.S. principle. Hasten Death would be a lot more streamlined without the Recharge and you could just as easily allow it to use its Spell-Like Abilities three times a day.

Mass Harm and Wraithstrike should cite to the books they're from since they're not core. Spell-Like Abilities is also needlessly complex. They cast divine spells as a Cleric of their HD. That's all you need to say.

It is missing a bunch of prepared spells. It can cast 6 cantrips for example. Does this creature have any Domains? That should be noted.

One weakness I see in this creature is that it doesn't have defenses against ranged attacks and doesn't have many ranged attacks itself. By 15th level, the PCs have crossbows at least. For example, the harm spell requires a touch and mass harm only has a 20-foot radius.

It's not a good idea for a creature to have fewer HD than its CR. While this has a lot of high scores and abilities that offset its low hit points, in a straight up fight, the PCs have a big advantage.

Environment should match the Plane it originates from unless it is a Native Outsider. 'Loths generally come from The Bleak Eternity of Gehenna (See MM 3).

Why don't they gain in size like other 'Loths?

What kind of Telepathy do they have? Is a common language required or is it any creature that has a language. It is missing what languages it can speak.

You do realize that it can't use its Hasten Death ability on PCs who voluntarily fail their saves for a feeblemind spell? That could be an interesting tactic. Sometimes being dumb has its advantages :smallbiggrin:

Debby

[kinem]

Debi, thanks for the comments. Its good to know that you liked it.

I made some changes above especially in the SLAs and the Hasten Death ability to make it more useful. The new abilities make it somewhat better at ranged combat.

Re: Slams: Actually slams should always allow iterative attacks; it's a flaw in the rules that they are treated differently from manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes. However, since it's a problem with the D&D rules and not specific to this monster, I changed it to the usual 2 slams.

It had absolutely no effect on CR though. Any ability that is strictly worse than some other ability obviously has zero effect on CR. It could have 100000000000000000001 different special attack options, each of which is strictly worse than its main at-will attack, and they would obviously have no effect at all on how challenging it is in combat since it would never use them. If you are using some kind of CR estimator, you should not count such abilities.

The heads aren't long enough to give exceptional reach, but they are long enough to use in combat without it being awkward, which is still pretty long for a head on a humanoid.

Hasten Death recharges the SLAs because that gives the monster a strong incentive to use it even on other yugoloths. It's not that complex and adds a lot of flavor per unit complexity.

It does not cast spells as an actual cleric, because choosing all of those spells would be super-complex. It casts a total of spell levels per day equal to its HD. For example, at 14 HD it could prepare 2 7th level spells, or instead it might prepare 7 2nd level spells.

Note the LA. The main purpose of this monster is to provide a flavorful, not-a-cleric healer for high level all-fiend games :)

[Debihuman]

Debi, thanks for the comments. Its good to know that you liked it.

I made some changes above especially in the SLAs and the Hasten Death ability to make it more useful. The new abilities make it somewhat better at ranged combat.

Yeah it needed that.


Re: Slams: Actually slams should always allow iterative attacks; it's a flaw in the rules that they are treated differently from manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes. However, since it's a problem with the D&D rules and not specific to this monster, I changed it to the usual 2 slams.

YYMV I haven't had a problem with slams not being iterative. Creatures with slams are usually golems and the like. I have no idea why this even has slam instead of claws like other Yugoloths. This is one of the reasons I don't like critiquing stuff. People use different house rules. BTW it still has iterative attacks. 2 slams +20/+20 melee is 4 attacks. Not a fan of this in the slightest.

The problem is your creature is too weak for CR 15.

When you have CR higher than HD, you generally have a design flaw. I probably wouldn't use this against a standard 15th level party because no matter how you cut it, it has a big glass jaw. Sure the party could fail all their saves but at 15th level it's not likely. They're far more powerful than this thing. At level 15, all they have to do is cast banishment and be done with it. A 15th level caster is just as likely to have 18 (or higher) as the casting attribute thus would have higher DCs for saves. Favor is still with the PC. Also, a composite crossbow still has a bigger range than 100 feet; it's 110 feet. SR is okay but because the party is higher level, it's less effective.


It had absolutely no effect on CR though. Any ability that is strictly worse than some other ability obviously has zero effect on CR. It could have 100000000000000000001 different special attack options, each of which is strictly worse than its main at-will attack, and they would obviously have no effect at all on how challenging it is in combat since it would never use them. If you are using some kind of CR estimator, you should not count such abilities. Attack options don't count in CR estimations and never did. BTW, I get CR 13 not 15.


The heads aren't long enough to give exceptional reach, but they are long enough to use in combat without it being awkward, which is still pretty long for a head on a humanoid.

Okay. You described them as snake-like so I wanted to be sure.


Hasten Death recharges the SLAs because that gives the monster a strong incentive to use it even on other yugoloths. It's not that complex and adds a lot of flavor per unit complexity. What flavor? It's just needless complexity for the DM. If you want motivation put it in description. In fact, that's good for "enemies of my enemy are my friend" situations but it does not belong in the mechanics of the game. It makes using this monster cold far more difficult because it does EXACTLY the same thing as if the Spell-like abilities were useable more than once a day. How does that add flavor? It's just adding an extra place to have to check when running the creature.


It does not cast spells as an actual cleric, because choosing all of those spells would be super-complex But that's what EVERY Single stat block for a creature has. And it's not complex. You pick typical spells. Every creature in the MMs has this. And every good DM should be able to do the same.


It casts a total of spell levels per day equal to its HD. For example, at 14 HD it could prepare 2 7th level spells, or instead it might prepare 7 2nd level spells. So that makes it even harder to run because the prep time is horrific. No DM wants to waste time picking spells, that information should be in the text under spells. Furthermore two 7th level spells are not the equivalent as seven 2nd level spells. It hamstrings this creature too much when it should have an arsenal of spells.


Note the LA. The main purpose of this monster is to provide a flavorful, not-a-cleric healer for high level all-fiend games :)

So this is why the creature is a poor choice to throw at PCs. That's not even its purpose. Unless the creature is going to be used against the PCs or as an ally, why bother creating it? It's just window dressing in that case.

Note: An outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

This is why true resurrection should be listed as a spell-like ability rather than a spell since you left the spells too vague.

Mostly what you have just said is that I have wasted my time in critiquing this creature as is since it is purely a navel-gazing design for a homebrew campaign that's not good for anyone else. Had you been upfront with that, I might not have bothered with a critique. .

FYI in case anyone is interested in this critter here it is in standard 3.5 form with typical spells included as they are noted for being medics.

Colubriloth
Medium Outsider (Evil, Yugoloth)
Hit Dice: 14d8+56 (119 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft.
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Armor Class: 27 (+3 Dex, +10 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 13, flat-footed 24
BAB/Grapple: +14/+20
Attack: Claw +20 melee (1d6+6) or mwk greatsword +22 melee (2d6+9/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +20 melee (1d6+6) and 2 bites +16 melee (1d4+3 and poison) or mwk greatsword +22/+17/+12 melee (2d6+9/19-20) and 2 bites +16 melee (1d4+3 and poison)
Special Attacks: Hasten death, poison, spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/good, darkvision 30 ft., immunity to acid and poison, resistance acid 10, electricity 10, fire 10, scent, SR 26, telepathy 100 ft., yugoloth traits
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +13
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 18
Skills: Climb +21, Concentration +20, Heal +19, Intimidate +21, Sense Motive +19, Spot +19, Listen +19, Knowledge (the planes) +17, Knowledge (religion) +17
Feats: Eschew Materials B, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness, Power Attack, Spell Penetration B, Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Environment: Bleak Eternity of Gehenna
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 15-16 HD (Medium) 17-28 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

A colubriloth is scaly and dark green in color. Where its head and neck would be on a humanoid, it has two long snake-like heads. Even if a colubriloth loses both of its heads (such as to vorpal attacks), it doesn't die. Its brain is concealed within its torso. However, such a colubriloth would be blind and deaf and would lose its scent ability unless a head were restored.

Colubriloths frequently act as medics for more powerful yugoloths in exchange for using their hasten death ability on battlefields, even on lesser yugoloths that are unconscious and dying. Despite their obvious physical strength and offensive capabilities, they are quite content to be in the service of creatures who have even more power

The colubriloths' ability to restore Outsiders to life with its true resurrection spell-like ability is greatly important to many powerful fiends. This earns them a level of respect from fiends that would otherwise be disinclined to associate with them. It also enables them to charge highly for this service. Of course, they also use this ability for their own benefit, as sometimes they take great pleasure in killing a foe, resurrecting him, and then killing him again either for sport or for revenge.

Because most yugoloths fear the colubriloth's hasten death ability, colubriloths cannot summon other yugoloths.

Colubriloths speak Abyssal, Draconic, and Infernal.

Combat

Hasten Death (Su): At will as a swift action, a colubriloth can target a living creature within 100 feet. If the target fails its Fortitude save (DC 21), the target takes 3d6 points of profane damage. If the target dies as a result and had an intelligence score of at least 5, the colubriloth gains 10 temporary hit points (which don't stack, and last up to 24 hours). The save DC is Charisma-based.

Poison (Ex): A colubriloth’s bites can inject a poison (Fort negates DC 20, Con-based). Initial damage and secondary damage: 1d3 temporary Con damage.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): 3/day—greater teleport (self + up to 50 lbs. of gear only), flame strike (14d6, Reflex half, DC 19) true resurrection, true seeing, wraithstrike (See SpC); 2/day—harm (140 points of damage, Reflex half, DC 20), heal (140 hp and removes a variety of conditions), mage's sword (+15 Atk, 4d6+3/19-20 force). Caster Level 14 (+16 vs. SR); save DC 14 + spell level (Charisma-based).

Spells: A colubriloth casts divine spells as a cleric equal to its hit dice but gains no domain spells. The above colubriloth casts as a 14th level cleric. DCs are 12 plus spell level. Its typical spells are noted below.

Typical Clerical Spells Prepared (6/6/6/5/5/4/4/3): 0—cure minor wounds (x3), detect magic, read magic, resistance; 1st—bane, cause fear, command , cure light wounds (x3); 2nd—bear's endurance, bull's strength, cure moderate wounds (x3), death knell; 3rd—blindness/deafness, cure serious wounds (x2), dispel magic (x2); 4th—cure critical wounds (x3), spell immunity, summon monster IV; 5th—cure light wounds, mass (x3), dispel good; 6th—bear's endurance, mass, bull's strength, mass, cure moderate wounds, mass (x2); 7th—cure serious wounds (x3)

Telepathy (Su): A colubriloth can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language.

Debby

[kinem]

I have no idea why this even has slam instead of claws like other Yugoloths.

The 1E nycadaemon had slams instead of claws. IMO they should have kept that for the nycaloth; it was rare and refreshing for a 1E monster not to have claw attacks. There's no reason all 'loths have to be the same.


2 slams +20/+20 melee is 4 attacks.

I just used the wrong notation. I meant 2 attacks: 1 with each fist.


The problem is your creature is too weak for CR 15.

CR is just a number; it's easy to adjust if need be, so it is not a main problem for a new monster in progress.

This one might be CR 14, but harm is a pretty strong spell. A CR equal to the party level is by definition a fight of routine difficulty for the party, though it should be a challenge. I think I will go with 14, but if I wanted it to be higher, I could just adjust a few of the other stats.


When you have CR higher than HD, you generally have a design flaw.

That is simply false. Why do you think so? Most monsters have more HD than their CR, for obvious reasons (4 PCs vs 1 monster), but there are many exceptions as well to that observation.


At level 15, all they have to do is cast banishment and be done with it.

That's very situational. It only works on the caster's home plane, and you assume that the 'loth won't return, when in fact it could prepare plane shift the following day and then teleport back, most likely with allies this time since it's been alerted to the party's power. Also, a cleric can cast it at 13th level.


Also, a composite crossbow still has a bigger range than 100 feet; it's 110 feet.

You mean longbow. A projectile weapon can be used up to 10 range increments (1100' for that bow) though with penalties. If the loth starts out at such a long range against a known powerful threat, it will probably retreat, saving its teleport for escape. Its flame strike has a range of 240'.


Attack options don't count in CR estimations and never did.

Great. You're the one who said it "screws up the CR" last time.


What flavor? It's just needless complexity for the DM. If you want motivation put it in description. In fact, that's good for "enemies of my enemy are my friend" situations but it does not belong in the mechanics of the game. It makes using this monster cold far more difficult because it does EXACTLY the same thing as if the Spell-like abilities were useable more than once a day. How does that add flavor? It's just adding an extra place to have to check when running the creature.

Wrong all the way. First, its spell-like abilities are not usable more than once a day if it can't recharge, and opportunities to recharge are not that common. It's very different than just letting it use them 3/day.

More importantly, flavor and mechanics should go hand-in-hand. It's just stupid for any creature to act a certain way without a good reason. No predator in the world attacks 'just because'. They do it because of MECHANICS - because of hunger and death that result from not eating. If you're not linking mechanics and flavor, then you might as well play chess instead, or 4E, because that's not much of a RPG.


You pick typical spells. ... So that makes it even harder to run because the prep time is horrific. No DM wants to waste time picking spells, that information should be in the text under spells.

You're not making any sense here. I did already list a typical set of spells, and there are far fewer spells for a DM to pick this way.


So this is why the creature is a poor choice to throw at PCs. That's not even its purpose. Unless the creature is going to be used against the PCs or as an ally, why bother creating it? It's just window dressing in that case.

That makes no sense. And it can be used in many ways - to throw at PCs just fine, of course, but also it could be an ally, a high level PC, or for flavor.

It's main importance in a campaign setting would be allowing slain fiends to get resurrected by other fiends, I'd say. That's a big deal. Such a powerful ability needs to be limited, which is why it should be an actual spell (which requires an expensive material component) and not a spell-like ability.


Mostly what you have just said is that I have wasted my time in critiquing this creature as is since it is purely a navel-gazing design for a homebrew campaign that's not good for anyone else. Had you been upfront with that, I might not have bothered with a critique.

That's as wrong as could be and insulting as well. No matter the purpose of a monster, I pay attention to all aspects of it. There's nothing wrong with it as a monster to fight PCs. Also, I am certainly not the only one who likes to occasionally play a monster-PC campaign.

I am offended. You should apologize.


FYI in case anyone is interested in this critter here it is in standard 3.5 form with typical spells included as they are noted for being medics.

The 'typical spells' you chose are ridiculous. Even if it mostly heals, it would expand its options with other spells. Also, a pair of them would surely not make the same spell choices as a lone 'loth. Your version would take a lot of work on the part of a DM to make it usable.

[Debihuman]

The 1E nycadaemon had slams instead of claws. IMO they should have kept that for the nycaloth; it was rare and refreshing for a 1E monster not to have claw attacks. There's no reason all 'loths have to be the same.

Which was updated to reflect how they look.


I just used the wrong notation. I meant 2 attacks: 1 with each fist. Okay. I was letting you know.


CR is just a number; it's easy to adjust if need be, so it is not a main problem for a new monster in progress.

It's a number that reflects how hard a creature is to defeat and yes during design it will often change depending on how it's built. But actually it can matter quite a bit as can be seen by the TPK monsters that have been designed here.


This one might be CR 14, but harm is a pretty strong spell. A CR equal to the party level is by definition a fight of routine difficulty for the party, though it should be a challenge. I think I will go with 14, but if I wanted it to be higher, I could just adjust a few of the other stats. I think you are overestimating this creature and expecting the party to fail a lot of saves. It could happen but it's not representative of the averages of the numbers.


That is simply false. Why do you think so? Most monsters have more HD than their CR, for obvious reasons (4 PCs vs 1 monster), but there are many exceptions as well to that observation.

I said to quote myself, "When CR is HIGHER than HD" you have a design flaw. Your creature had 14 HD and a 15 CR when I first looked at it. That's exactly when I went to look for weaknesses in it's design. It means glass jaw usually or a one-trick pony. There is a reason the Tarrasque has 48 HD and is CR 20.


That's very situational. It only works on the caster's home plane, and you assume that the 'loth won't return, when in fact it could prepare plane shift the following day and then teleport back, most likely with allies this time since it's been alerted to the party's power. Also, a cleric can cast it at 13th level.

It could but since you didn't give it plane shift as a typical spell, I figured that it wouldn't have it normally.


You mean longbow. A projectile weapon can be used up to 10 range increments (1100' for that bow) though with penalties. If the loth starts out at such a long range against a known powerful threat, it will probably retreat, saving its teleport for escape. Its flame strike has a range of 240'.

Composite bow has a range of 110 feet. Longbow has a range of 100 feet.

It's a matter of tactics when it comes to battling creatures and 'loths are evil so a good party probably would have to be convinced to ally with it. But that's not what the stat block is for; that's what plots are for. Sure you can have ecologies and descriptions of their nature, but every plot will be different while the stat block is static.


Great. You're the one who said it "screws up the CR" last time. Lots of things can screw up the CR. The CR is the very last thing you assign generally. It has to do with over-all power. I've statted out some critters expecting them to be lower CR and then once I'm through with the design realized I'd just done too much (or not enough). Some is math; some is art. Abilities aren't equal. low-light vision isn't worth as much resistance to acid 10 for example. The big Ds (demons, devils, daemons and dragons) tend to have a LOT of special abilities that raise the CR above their HD. They also tend to have very high Constitution scores which gives them the hit points even if they lack the HD. What you then do is compare like to like. Is this on par with a CR 13 Glabrezu or not. Losing the ability to summon other demons is a biggie. How much is that worth in CR? Probably at least 1 if not 2. It gains spells but 14 spell levels is all over the place and hard to assess. That could be 14 first level spells or 2 seventh level spell.

On the other hand party with a mage and a cleric has veritable arsenal of spells. A clever party will get it to waste its spells while holding back their higher level spells when it can't counterspell or dispel them. It simply has too few spells at its disposal.


Wrong all the way. First, its spell-like abilities are not usable more than once a day if it can't recharge, and opportunities to recharge are not that common. It's very different than just letting it use them 3/day.

Not letting it recharge just hamstrings this critter more. While to you it is "very" different, in actually playing a recharge gives it additional uses which is IN EFFECT exactly like letting it use it 3/day or 2/day. In fact, 3/day is far more preferable than a DM trying to remember if the recharge is in play. First it has to have already used one of its special abilities and then it has to hasten death before it can recharge a special ability. That makes for a lot of extra DM work. Who wants to slow down combat like that?


More importantly, flavor and mechanics should go hand-in-hand. It's just stupid for any creature to act a certain way without a good reason. No predator in the world attacks 'just because'. They do it because of MECHANICS - because of hunger and death that result from not eating. If you're not linking mechanics and flavor, then you might as well play chess instead, or 4E, because that's not much of a RPG.

Agreed. Actually malicious predators act exactly that way whether if it's a thrill of the kill that does it or other motivation. This creature is motivated by sucking up to bigger 'loths and toadying to them or at least that's the impression I have of them. While their hasten death ability is fierce, it's not much to creatures that can summon other creatures since the colubriloth can only target one foe at a time.

Outsiders do not need to eat (or sleep for that matter). Hunger is not a motivation for them unless you specifically state that it is. I do not recall that being a motivation. Getting to use their hasten death ability was noted in the text. As you said, "They function as medics for the more powerful yugoloths, doing so in exchange for being allowed to use their hasten death power on the battlefields even on lesser yugoloths that are unconscious and dying." I bolded the relevant section.


You're not making any sense here. I did already list a typical set of spells, and there are far fewer spells for a DM to pick this way.

Yes, you listed a few spells. But 14 spell levels isn't CR 14 or even CR 13. It's more like CR 9. It's way overpowered for CR 9. Simply put, they don't have enough spells to justify the CR you are assigning. 14 spells is closer to what a 9th level PC can cast (and the PC still gets orisons and domain spells as bonuses which the 'loth doesn't).

A 15th level Cleric has 29 spells just from 1st to 7th level (which was the CR you originally assigned). In a straight up magical fight, the cleric wins. Even adjusting downward for spells a 13th level cleric will have 24 spells not including orisons and domain spells. There is no way that I see your critter being even CR 14.

How much do PCs fear 3d6 points of damage a round? Since it can only target one creature with its hasten death, the best tactic is to get it to force it into combat with the one with the most hit points. Odds of it running off are pretty high as it's not designed for actual combat.

A fighter Level 13 with Con 14 has 13d8+26 or on average 84 hit points. As long as the fighter can stay out of range of the creature's physical attacks, he can shoot arrows for about 10 rounds before going unconscious from the hasten death. What makes this creature tough isn't its special abilities; it's got a lot of physical attacks. 2 claws or greatsword plus 2 bites with poison. The incongruity here is the actual physiology of this thing. Not only is its head protected from vorpal attack [this feature I really liked by the way] but the fact that it has 2 snaky heads each with a poisonous bite. Physically it has more oomph than some of the "more powerful" yugoloths it works for. Again, I'm just seeing where the fluff and the crunch don't meet.

Speaking of motivation:it comes right from the Wotc Website in the glossary under Yugoloth Subtype: "Possibly the greediest, most selfish beings in the Outer Planes, yugoloths reign supreme among the evil outsiders of Gehenna."


]That makes no sense. And it can be used in many ways - to throw at PCs just fine, of course, but also it could be an ally, a high level PC, or for flavor.

True enough but as an ally it stops being a monster and becomes an NPC.That's the distinction. I have no problem with even monstrous NPCs but then you need to set it up in description. Why does it ally? Every monster creation contest had section for adventure hooks and if you look at monsters I designed (not ones that are based on books or movies) such as the Angel, Dairymaid or Cardboardeaux you'll see how much effort goes into the details of just a simple creature.


It's main importance in a campaign setting would be allowing slain fiends to get resurrected by other fiends, I'd say. That's a big deal. Such a powerful ability needs to be limited, which is why it should be an actual spell (which requires an expensive material component) and not a spell-like ability.

Here is where I disagree with you on this. The stat block is independent from the campaign. It's the job of the DM in the individual campaign to use the critter as he or she sees fit. The stat block and the text are a framework. Don't assume that because a creature CAN do something, that it MUST do something. The big powers can always be there, it's up to the DM to decide when and how to use them. These creatures are incredibly selfish. Just because it can cast true resurrection 3 times a day, doesn't mean it will or won't ask a huge price for doing so. It also doesn't mean it won't renege on any deals it makes if doing so is in its best interest. A lot depends on the campaign but it is a powerful ability and one that other yugoloths want for themselves. It's not like these will be resurrecting things willy-nilly unless you have a bad DM. It's basically CL 19 for ONE spell and let's face it; it's probably gong to as close to 25K as it can get to use this ability. It probably doesn't want to use it all unless it can get something out of it.[The joy of killing an enemy, resurrecting it and killing it again is certainly a viable reason.]


That's as wrong as could be and insulting as well. No matter the purpose of a monster, I pay attention to all aspects of it. There's nothing wrong with it as a monster to fight PCs. Also, I am certainly not the only one who likes to occasionally play a monster-PC campaign.

I am offended. You should apologize.

I stand by what I said. I was neither rude nor disrespectful to you. You asked for PEACH, and I gave it to the best of my ability. I have explained it all in great detail despite feeling it has been a waste of my time. I am sorry it wasn't what you wanted.


The 'typical spells' you chose are ridiculous. Even if it mostly heals, it would expand its options with other spells. Also, a pair of them would surely not make the same spell choices as a lone 'loth. Your version would take a lot of work on the part of a DM to make it usable.

What do you think a medic does exactly? Oh right not curing anything.... Form follows function. I took what you said LITERALLY. If you don't like it, change it. I merely put it in standard form and put it in a spoiler for that reason.

P.S. Updated the text a bit in my version and reduced a couple of spell-like abilities to twice a day since it is a full caster. Feel free to look at it or not as you see fit.

Debby

[kinem]

I added a few more spell-like abilities, improving its combat abilities a little.

The current version looks pretty good to me.

The two new mechanics, recharging SLAs and being able to cast a limited number of spells as well, are simple for a DM to use and really make this monster a cut above the usual fare.

Anyone willing to step up with thoughtful comments?