PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Life is but a dream: Sleepwalker (Base class) (PEACH)



Qwertystop
2014-07-02, 08:49 PM
Well. I had a whole bunch of ideas, and they sort of blended together into this. There was my old Waking Dreamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?261676-Waking-Dreamer-%283-5-Base-Class%29-%28PEACH%29-%28WIP%29) failed-before-it-finished idea, there was the idea of a prepared caster who prepared their spells during their eight hours asleep instead of right after, there was the idea of balancing spells by the time it takes to prepare them (instead of a constant amount), there was the idea of using Lucid Dreaming when not asleep, to make things, there was the quote that I'm using as a header...

Anyway, the result is:
Sleepwalker

Merrily // merrily // merrily // merrily // life is but a dream…
That dream can be what I want it to be.

and



so



the city



changed.


Quote paraphrased from Stefan Gagne's City of Angles (http://stefangagne.com/cityofangles/), vol://001, chapter //005: Wound up Toys.





Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Usable minutes


1
0
0
0
2
Oneiric Self, Dream Preparation



2
1
0
0
3
Communal Rest



3
2
1
1
3
Shared Visions



4
3
1
1
4
Lucid Life



5
3
1
1
4
Dream Magic (1st)



6
4
2
2
5
Unaware/Never Care (Obstacles)



7
5
2
2
5
Dream Magic (2nd)



8
6
2
2
6
Unaware/Never Care (Attacks)



9
6
3
3
6
Dream Magic (3rd)



10
7
3
3
7
Unaware/Never Care (Protections)



11
8
3
3
7
Dream Magic (4th)



12
9
4
4
8
Unaware/Never Care (Saves)



13
9
4
4
8
Dream Magic (5th)



14
10
4
4
9




15
11
5
5
9
Dream Magic (6th)



16
12
5
5
10




17
12
5
5
10
Dream Magic (7th)



18
13
6
6
11




19
14
6
6
11
Dream Magic (8th)



20
15
6
6
12





Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Lucid Dreaming (Cha), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)


I personally don't much like the official Lucid Dreaming skill. Impossible to do anything non-cosmetic, except pulling someone else to near-unavoidable doom, which is too easy. I did a rewrite, it's here.




Use

DC



Realize you are dreaming

15



Cause aesthetic change to yourself or the environment

15



Cause aesthetic change to someone else

20, but see text



Create mundane object

10



Replicate spell effect

See text



Replace save

See text



Oppose

See text




Realize you are dreaming: Exactly what it says. Also, if you do not know you are dreaming, you cannot make other Lucid Dreaming checks. If someone in a shared dream makes a Lucid Dreaming check that affects you, you automatically know you are dreaming.

Cause aesthetic change to yourself or the environment: Aesthetic changes to the environment include such things as lighting, non-obstructive scenery, decorations, and non-hazardous weather. If something is dangerous, obstructive, or otherwise mechanically meaningful, it cannot be created or destroyed with this check, but it can be cosmetically modified (a hailstorm changed into a sandstorm, a stone pillar replaced with a tree of similar girth). Aesthetic changes to yourself are anything within the range of the Disguise Self spell.

Cause aesthetic change to someone else: The range of changes is the same as for making aesthetic changes to yourself. However, the target (creature being changed) gets a Will save to resist, and can oppose the change (see Oppose) at the same time (without having to ready an action). Note that people who are figments of a particular dream count as part of the environment, not other people, for purposes of modifying them with Lucid Dreaming checks.

Create mundane object: This can be any non-magical, non-masterwork object that you can hold in one hand. Larger objects must be made using “Replicate spell effect,” possibly in multiple uses.

Replicate spell effect: Most complex modifications will be improvised out of this. For this use, the DC is the same as that of a Use Magic Device check to cast the spell from a scroll, but without needing a scroll of the selected spell. This includes the need to roll high enough to emulate the required ability score, if you do not have a high enough score. Any spell that directly affects another dreamer can be opposed by that dreamer in the process of making a save (without having to ready an action).

Replace save: If you have at least 10 ranks in Lucid Dreaming, you can roll a Lucid Dreaming check instead of a saving throw once per round. Treat the result of the check as your saving throw result. This is clearly different from a saving throw – a Reflex save for half damage from a fireball is probably dodging, but a Lucid Dreaming check might be a thin wall appearing to block it, a not-previously-noticed dip in the floor becoming apparent, or the fire simply flowing around its target.

Oppose: Lucid Dreaming can be used to try to prevent someone else's changes as a readied action. This is a special kind of opposed check. Each person trying to prevent the change rolls a Lucid Dreaming check, and all of these are subtracted from the check of the person trying to make a change. If the result, after subtraction, does not pass the DC to make the change, the change does not occur.

Taking 10: Only for “Realize you are dreaming,” “Cause aesthetic change to yourself or the environment,” and “Create mundane object.”

Use untrained: Only for “Realize you are dreaming,” “Cause aesthetic change to yourself or the environment,” “Create mundane object,” and opposed checks.

Synergies: Autohypnosis, Concentration


Oneiric Self (Ex):
As soon as you take the 1st level of this class, you are permanently treated as if you are asleep. You dream of the reality you are sleepwalking through in major respects, but details such as what everything looks like are likely to change frequently, and may not have any resemblance to reality. Of course, this is mostly internal; outwardly, you seem perfectly awake, if a bit odd.

Mechanically, you are blind, and experience vivid visual hallucinations which match up in general ways (definitely shape and position, though not necessary anything more precise about appearance) to what you would be able to see if you weren't blind. You are immune to any effect that would put you to sleep or affect your dreams, though you can lift the latter immunity at will, on a per-effect basis. Also, you automatically pass Lucid Dreaming checks to know if you are dreaming.

You still need to rest for the usual amount of time to refresh things such as spells and power points that require it.

Since a full, restful sleep can still have benefits, you can drop into what appears to be normal sleep at will. This is not prevented by any nonmagical stimulus (hard ground, loud noise, etc.) that would prevent sleep. Also, you are still just as aware as usual of your surroundings, and can wake as a free action. While in this restful sleep, you gain all the normal benefits of sleeping (natural healing, recovering from ability damage, fatigue, and exhaustion, etc).


This "blindness but dreaming" difference should not meaningfully effect (affect?) the Sleepwalker's ability to interact with the world around him for anything crucial. It's fluff, and should not become crunch in important ways or at important times, unless of course the player wants it to.


Dream Preparation (Su):
You can focus your dreams to prepare you for the day ahead. Below are an assortment of Dreams. Each takes a certain amount of time to prepare – this is done while in normal-seeming sleep (see Oneiric Self). The Sleepwalker can only spend a certain amount of time per day on these, dependent on level as listed in the class table. Beginning to prepare more Dreams immediately ends all active Dreams, and all Dreams with long-duration effects end 24 hours after finishing the day's preparations even if the Sleepwalker does not Dream again. Dreams that grant alternate uses of the Lucid Dreaming skill cannot be used when the Lucid Dreaming skill cannot normally be used (for example, when awake and not in a dream-based plane, but see Lucid Life below).


Communal Rest (Su): A Sleepwalker of second level or higher can draw others into a dream, to turn resting-time into a chance to converse, train, or plan. Any creature sleeping within (5' per Sleepwalker level) of the Sleepwalker can join into a group dream (Will negates, harmless). Creatures that do not sleep can willingly go dormant to join in the dream. The Sleepwalker can be part of this dream even while apparently awake, due to the Oneiric Self ability, but they take a -2 penalty to all skill checks, attack rolls, and saves due to the distraction of focusing on both at once.


Shared Visions (Su): A Sleepwalker of third level or higher can grant their Prepared Dreams to someone else instead of focusing them on themselves. When preparing a Dream, instead of getting its benefits yourself, you may grant its effects to one creature sleeping within the range of your Communal Rest ability.


Lucid Life (Su): A Sleepwalker sees reality as just another dream, and at fourth level, can begin to treat it as a lucid one. Some Dreams enable new uses for Lucid Dreaming checks. These uses (but not the general ones listed in the skill) can now be made in the sleepwalking state produced by Oneiric Self, and will affect reality, not just the Sleepwalker's dream of it. However, this has limitations. It takes a small amount of concentration to maintain them – no action is required to concentrate to maintain them, but distractions will force a Concentration check to maintain each effect. Also, all effects vanish at sunset or sunrise (whichever is next), or if outside the Sleepwalker's Communal Rest range. Finally, whenever this is used successfully, the environment inside the Sleepwalker's Communal Rest range changes to match their Oneiric Self sleepwalk-dream.


Dream Magic (Sp): Sleepwalkers of fifth level and above gain minor spellcasting abilities. They gain access to the Dream, Mentalism, and Mind domains, and can spontaneously cast spells from those domains (Spellcasting ability score is Charisma) with a caster level four below their class level. They have three spell slots of each level of spell they know, and know all spells of those domains with a spell level less than or equal to their maximum Dream Magic level as marked on the class table.


Unaware/Never Care (Su): If everything's all in your head, what does that say about the things you don't know about? “What you don't know can't hurt you” takes an increasingly literal interpretation for Sleepwalkers of sixth level and above. At sixth level, nonmagical obstacles of which the Sleepwalker is unaware cannot obstruct them. Locks and bars on the other side of the door do not prevent it from opening (though when the door is closed again, they remain in place), pressure plates and low tripwires will not trigger, and the Sleepwalker will never collide with an exceptionally clean pane of glass. Locks, traps, and similar things that would normally require a check to bypass can only be bypassed automatically if their Open Lock or Disable Device DC is less than or equal to the Sleepwalker's class level plus ten. Those which are not can still be bypassed with a Lucid Dreaming check (made automatically on any such attempt) against the same DC. If bypassed, the Sleepwalker remains unaware of the obstacle – they cannot check for traps by walking down a hall and counting all the things they fail to activate. Magical locks and traps with magical triggers ignore this ability.

At eighth level, the Sleepwalker can add their Charisma modifier as an untyped bonus to their AC when flat-footed or otherwise unaware of the attack (for example, attacks from invisible enemies, or from behind cover). If such an attack misses them, they do not notice, but to anyone else it appears to connect and be completely ignored.

At tenth level, the Sleepwalker can negate any penalties to their attack and damage rolls (up to their Charisma modifier for each, per attack) that are caused by things of which the Sleepwalker is unaware (mostly spells with no visible effect). They do not notice such penalties, and their attacks appear to completely bypass such protections or problems without effort.

At twelfth level, the Sleepwalker can add their Charisma modifier to their saving throws when flat-footed or otherwise unaware of what they are saving against. If the save negates the effect, they do not notice it; if the save reduces the effect they are not aware of having done anything to reduce it. They appear to simply be ignoring some or all of the hostile effect.



Mental Training: This Dream gives small, simple bonuses to mundane competencies, as you train and train in your dreams. Each X minutes spent in this Dream give a +1 insight bonus to either attack rolls, damage rolls, one type of saving throw, or skill checks for a specific skill, or a +1 dodge bonus to armor class. This lasts for one day. This Dream stacks with itself, up to a maximum bonus of the Sleepwalker's Charisma modifier.

Invigorating Fantasy: Get (minutes spent)*(constant, to be determined) temporary hit points, 24-hour duration.

Sleeper's Eyes: This Dream gives assorted visual bonuses, more precise details of the world leaking into your daytime dream. X minutes allows the target to make a Lucid Dreaming check as a standard action, DC 12, to cast Detect Magic. Y minutes improves this to Arcane Sight for DC 17. Z minutes improves this to gaining the effects of True Seeing on themselves for DC 22.

Night's Vision: X minutes gives Scrying, in the dream. Time used to scry cannot be used to prepare Dreams.

Imagined Path: X minutes. Allows the target to make a Lucid Dreaming check as a standard action, DC 18, to gain the effects of Air Walk for themselves, as the spell. This is a spell-like ability. This may not always look like walking on air – hovering flight, for example, is a valid visual for this as well.

Speed of Thought: X minutes. Allows the target to make a Lucid Dreaming check as a standard action, DC 17, to gain the effects of Haste for themselves, as the spell. This is a spell-like ability.

Mists of the Mind: X minutes allows the target to make a DC 13 Lucid Dreaming check to gain the effects of Blur for themselves, as the spell. This is a spell-like ability. Y minutes allows the target to make a DC 15 Lucid Dreaming check to gain the effects of Displacement instead.
NEED MORE OF THESE





So yeah, there you have it: a framework. I need more Dreams, and I need to figure out how to put together the amount of time usable at different levels and the amount it'll take for each Dream. If you've got any suggestions, please give them. General goal is like a Warlock but instead of at-will abilities, mostly all-day buffs (the better ones mostly only available to themselves due to the Lucid Dreaming-based ability limitation.

Qwertystop
2014-07-03, 01:20 PM
This post reserved just in case. Probably not going to be needed but who knows.

Hanuman
2014-07-03, 02:30 PM
Very interesting content, I'll keep my eye on this and perhaps peach later :smallsmile:

Qwertystop
2014-07-03, 03:36 PM
Thanks. It feels like there might be a possible theurge PrC between this and Ozodrin when this is more complete, actually.

My formula for the DC for the Dreams that require a Lucid Dreaming check is as follows: I wanted a 75% chance of success for a maxed skill with no modifier, at the level the spell could be cast by a max-spell-level-equals-twice-class-level caster. So spell level, times two, plus three for the skill modifier, then plus six to require them to roll a six or above. My intent is to make it require a modest investment to get it guaranteed, but not run into a Truenamer problem where it takes far too much work to get things to happen, and make it so with minimal effort you've still got a pretty good chance.

New Dream:
Mists of the Mind: X minutes allows the target to make a DC 13 Lucid Dreaming check to gain the effects of Blur for themselves, as the spell. This is a spell-like ability. Y minutes allows the target to make a DC 15 Lucid Dreaming check to gain the effects of Displacement instead.

1pwny
2014-07-03, 04:31 PM
And here I was thinking this was going to have something to do with the 5-or-so Dreamtouched feats. Something about always being in a Dreamtouched state, maybe?

If you don't know them, check them out here (http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/dreamtouched/).

It might be cool to integrate them in, as bonus feats or something.

Hanuman
2014-07-03, 05:45 PM
@Theurge
It really depends what mechanics you want to use and which version of ozodrin you want to PrC for, I should mention that we are working on similar concept in Ozodrin Remix.

There is a dreamer base class being made offline (though machine is the main focus right now), dreamer would be somewhat close to this idea, but the mechanics would likely be quite different. I'd love to have your help on projects, let me know and we can chat on steam some time :smallsmile:


As for the class.. hmm.

The concept of being able to control your rest is interesting, perhaps #/day by spending #:##:## time you may act as though you had 8 hours of rest due to you always being technically asleep.

At early level this could be 2 times per day with an hour duration and the farther it gets from being a viable splash class the more times you could do this per day and the less time it would take.

That being said, it would make it an incredibly broken gestalt :smallsmile:

Anyway, let me know if you want feedback on something specific, I'd love to input.

Qwertystop
2014-07-03, 06:03 PM
As for the class.. hmm.

The concept of being able to control your rest is interesting, perhaps #/day by spending #:##:## time you may act as though you had 8 hours of rest due to you always being technically asleep.

At early level this could be 2 times per day with an hour duration and the farther it gets from being a viable splash class the more times you could do this per day and the less time it would take.

That being said, it would make it an incredibly broken gestalt :smallsmile:

Anyway, let me know if you want feedback on something specific, I'd love to input.

Really? I mean, the current state is just not needing to sleep, and you count as having the standard eight hours of rest by not using per-day abilities for those eight hours.

You think not needing rest (but still needing to pause for eight hours to let dailies refresh) is broken enough on its own to spread out beyond first level? You can get the same thing for no LA, on top of a lot of other stuff, just by being a Warforged (there's probably lots of other sleepless races too, but none come to mind).

And as for specific feedback: I'm still trying to add more Dreams and figure out how to set up the resource (usable time). It's basically power points, except everything is an all-day buff that either gives a general boost or allows a new action. Or Night's Vision.

Editing Invigorating Fantasy to make more sense.

EDIT:

And here I was thinking this was going to have something to do with the 5-or-so Dreamtouched feats. Something about always being in a Dreamtouched state, maybe?

If you don't know them, check them out here (http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/dreamtouched/).

It might be cool to integrate them in, as bonus feats or something.

Hm. Hadn't heard of those. Let's see...
Dream Scion is basically Rage for casters and other mental-based characters, and then the others mostly pile other bonuses on top of it?

I could work them in the same way as the dream-related domains (which, frankly, were mostly a placeholder to give it something to do other than hit stuff - if I get enough Dreams to do that I might take those out). Maybe get one Dreamtouched feat as a bonus feat every few levels, decrease the time it takes to go into a Dreamtouched state, and allow you to grant the benefits to allies within your Lucid Life range? Not sure where to put them, though, as far as balancing it without frontloading it too much (since it doesn't fit nicely into any PrC I'm aware of).

Amechra
2014-07-03, 06:05 PM
I'd suggest that you could pillage my Resider-in-Dreams, but, well, you already got Oneiric Self.

Looks pretty good, all things considered.

Qwertystop
2014-07-03, 06:18 PM
I'd suggest that you could pillage my Resider-in-Dreams, but, well, you already got Oneiric Self.

Looks pretty good, all things considered.

I did that, remember? Look at the link at the top for the Waking Dreamer idea - that one was inspired directly by your Resider. I'd asked you by PM, though I suppose that was long enough ago that neither of us have it in our inboxes anymore.

Hanuman
2014-07-03, 06:22 PM
So you form buffs using points? :smallwink:

For Oneiric Self (Ex)'s refresh I meant you could just copy this item (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/heward-s-fortifying-bedroll) and have the time needed to sleep and the uses per day improved at higher level.

But if your class is recovering things per day anyway you'd have to think about what is getting refreshed and how it could be abused.

Just brainstorming =]

Qwertystop
2014-07-03, 06:31 PM
So you form buffs using points? :smallwink:

For Oneiric Self (Ex)'s refresh I meant you could just copy this item (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/heward-s-fortifying-bedroll) and have the time needed to sleep and the uses per day improved at higher level.

But if your class is recovering things per day anyway you'd have to think about what is getting refreshed and how it could be abused.

Just brainstorming =]

Ha. Ha. Sort of, except the points are time - where a prepared caster needs an hour to prepare all their spells, or fifteen minutes to prepare one spell, a Sleepwalker would have the time defined per-buff, and some of the buffs scale by how long you spend on them. The resource that scales by level (the currently empty column labeled "usable minutes") is how much time you can spend per rest period on Dreams.

So you're saying instead of "you don't need to sleep but you do still need to rest to refresh per-day abilities and prepare your in-class abilities" I should make it "you need to sleep a lot less but only sometimes and the rest of the time you need to sleep as much as normal"?

And this doesn't refresh anything any faster than it would normally - to get back things that require rest, you still need to spend eight hours not using them.

Or... oh. Never mind. I somehow forgot about that "counts as the next day" line. Yeah, that's coming out.

EDIT: Moved the bit of Dream Preparation that referred to the ability to pretend to sleep normally up to Oneiric Self.

necroon
2014-07-04, 02:37 PM
Some ideas for dreams:

A Nightmare Manifest: Summon a creature from your nightmares to your side to attack your foes. Perhaps use Summon Monster SLAs while giving the creatures in question either the pseudonatural template (Because they are strange dream creatures) or Incorporeal (because they aren't quite all there)? Obviously no attention to balance on the sole basis of the suggestion.

A Dream of falling: A Reverse Gravity SLA or perhaps a feather-fall effect.

Toys from my Childhood: Summon an animated object like a giant teddy bear or a jack in the box.

Not sure if any of these help you.

Qwertystop
2014-07-04, 04:49 PM
Some ideas for dreams:

A Nightmare Manifest: Summon a creature from your nightmares to your side to attack your foes. Perhaps use Summon Monster SLAs while giving the creatures in question either the pseudonatural template (Because they are strange dream creatures) or Incorporeal (because they aren't quite all there)? Obviously no attention to balance on the sole basis of the suggestion.

A Dream of falling: A Reverse Gravity SLA or perhaps a feather-fall effect.

Toys from my Childhood: Summon an animated object like a giant teddy bear or a jack in the box.

Not sure if any of these help you.

I like the name on the first. Was considering adding some ability like Shadow Conjuration, but with 50% reality normally and 0% reality on a Will save, but only save if it directly affects you (so no save for Wall of Stone, for example). That'd give a wide variety of structural modification while nulling most direct offense and save-or-dies.

Toys seems like another good one, though it seems pretty specific - perhaps with a bit of tweaking to give more options. Just summon an Animated Object of a certain size, you pick what it is? That allows nightmares, resizings, and other not-a-happy-dream things.

Hanuman
2014-07-04, 10:27 PM
The gravity effect is very nice. Perhaps give the class a climb speed that emulates subjective gravity so hands-free ect?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXH15poX0c

Manifest and Nightmare? Good names for class features! :smallbiggrin:

If you're going to have a single minion I'd suggest using the eidolon or astral construct system, if you're using many minions talk to selinia about her minion system.

Qwertystop
2014-07-17, 11:11 AM
Removed image because someone changed what the image at that link was to something I'm very glad I removed.

Qwertystop
2014-08-06, 04:07 PM
Just showed this to The Djinn: fixes incoming:
Oneiric Self: Rewriting to just make you immune to sleep effects - lots of problems as written
Unaware/Never Care has lots of awkwardness in the sixth-level version (your best option is to get a magic item that blinds you to everything except allies and enemies, then just run through all the walls, never make a spot check, etc) and tenth-level (very little that gives penalties that aren't obvious). Removing, may replace.

Everything else is awkward and misshapen - the way it's going it'd end up as a reconfigured-but-basically-unchanged spellcaster with an odd resource system.

Was advised to come up with a one-sentence description, ended up at:
Someone who controls their dreams and pushes them into reality.

So I'm rewriting it with his help - the above class is mostly scrap.