White Raven Tactics.

[Yael]

As far as I understand, an "ally" counts your character too; so is this maneuver really allowing you to use its effects on yourself to grant you another round? Would this mean that, if you are level 6th, you would be able to perform your turn five times in quick succession, and at the last turn, you could recover your maneuvers attacking your opponent, then recovering all 5 to use them the next time your initiative comes to another 5 rounds, and so on (doing stuff like full attacking?)

[Pangaea]

You can't ready 5 maneuvers in a row. A maneuver is either readied or not. So you only get 1 WRT at a time.

[grarrrg]

I think they covered that in the errata....

[Necroticplague]

You can't ready 5 maneuvers in a row. A maneuver is either readied or not. So you only get 1 WRT at a time.

Unless you manage to refresh, like by being an idiot crusader. Of course, its still not quiet infinite turns. Since each new turn is at your initiative-1, eventually everybody else will go. So if you got a 20, and someone else a 17, you could WRT yourself 3 times, then he goes, then you go (assuming the end of your last action was to WRT yourself).

[eggynack]

I think they covered that in the errata....
There really isn't a ToB errata, or rather there is one, except it's actually mostly complete mage errata for some reason.

[grarrrg]

There really isn't a ToB errata, or rather there is one, except it's actually mostly complete mage errata for some reason.

Here's a handy link (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dontexplainthejoke) for you.

[eggynack]

Here's a handy link (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dontexplainthejoke) for you.
Ah. Well, that makes more sense of that then. This is why I like blue text. Frigging poe's law, man.

[Yael]

Well, yeah. I just read the sad truth that the same maneuver can't be readied more than once, so yeah. But maybe that combo of two turns in a row apply, then?

Turn > WRT > (initiative -1) > Swift to ready maneuvers > recover. Repeat next turn.

Yes?

[grarrrg]

Ah. Well, that makes more sense of that then. This is why I like blue text. Frigging poe's law, man.

I thought it was such an obvious joke that the only responses would be "What does the errata say?" or "Where to find?".
Ah well...

[Ruethgar]

A Dvati can use it endless times of course, but it depends on how you view initiative working. If your earlier initiative is still considered as part of the line of initiative when you alter your active initiative then it would be endless. If it is instantly replaced and removed from the game, you could get as many turns as there are initiative rolls assuming you go first.

[Darrin]

The Tome of Battle Unofficial Errata Project (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=25) has addressed the White Raven Tactics issue:



Page 94 - White Raven Tactics [Addition and Clarification]
You cannot target yourself, despite being your own ally (as doing so results in an infinite penalty to your initiative count). Add "A creature can only be affected by one White Raven Tactics per encounter." to the end of the maneuver's text.


Unfortunately, I'm befuddled what they mean by "infinite penalty". It looks like they're arguing that "Initiative Count X = X - 1" results in some sort of infinite loop, but I don't find that a persuasive argument. If you ignore the first sentence but keep the second, it shuts down most of the WRT abuse.

The most popular method to abuse WRT is Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine Recovery/Divine Impetus to convert Turn Undead into a bunch of swift actions. But there are some RAW issues with this, as Divine Impetus is a (Su) ability, and those are standard actions by default, although the text implies the activation is supposed to be a free action. It's also not infinite, as you will eventually run out of Turn Undead, and any DM who lets you get ahold of a bunch of nightsticks probably deserves whatever insanity you manage to unleash on him.



Turn > WRT > (initiative -1) > Swift to ready maneuvers > recover. Repeat next turn.


Doesn't work that way. If you're a Warblade, you can use a standard or swift action to recover your maneuvers, but if you do so, you cannot use any maneuvers that turn. So you can't recover *and* use WRT on the same turn.

If you're a Crusader, then it's a little more complicated, as WRT is usually not immediately granted on your next turn once it's been used. In order to get a new set of readied maneuvers, you need to make sure all of your maneuvers are expended and you no longer have any withheld maneuvers. If so, you may get WRT on your next turn, but it's "luck of the draw".

There's a way to stack the deck, though, called the "Idiot Crusader". But it's more complicated than some people think, and requires some careful multiclassing. Basically, what you do is multiclass into Warblade or Swordsage, then take several levels of a martial adept prestige class that grants you additional readied maneuvers. This also increases your granted maneuvers by 1. If you choose Warblade/Swordsage maneuvers, your granted maneuvers go up by 1, but the number of Crusader maneuvers you know doesn't. Eventually reach a point where your granted manevuers = Crusader maneuvers known. So at the start of your turn, you get granted every Crusader maneuver you know, including WRT. Use WRT, and at the end of your turn, you have no withheld manuevers, and you're given a fresh hand of new maneuvers, including WRT. Rinse & repeat.

[KorbeltheReader]

Speaking in more practical terms, this is a place where you could minmax yourself into a weaker position than you started. White Raven Tactics is a great maneuver when used how (I would argue) it was clearly intended -- as a way to change the initiative of an ally that isn't you. If you (arguably) break RAI to make it do something it was probably not intended to do -- to give yourself extra turns -- it becomes incredibly, stupidly awesome, but also becomes very likely to be banned entirely by your now-annoyed GM and to convince him/her that you need to be kept on a tighter leash from now on, thus leaving you worse off than if you had just kept to White Raven Tactics' intended use in the first place.

This of course depends on your GM. Some are fine with supercharged WRT. Many are not.

[heavyfuel]

Note that you don't even have to be an Idiot Crusader to use WRT every round... There's nothing in the RAW thats says you HAVE to ready all your maneuver slots, so you can ready just WRT an get it back at the start of every turn for free.