Feral human

[m149307]

Can someone tell me which book feral human is in? I need to look up the stats and stuff on it.

[AlanBruce]

I believe the Feral Template is in Savage Species, a 3.0 book, but it has very good templates.

Oddly enough, never considered adding that template to a humanoid, or in this case, a human. Would make an interesting plot hook, as they might be confused with lycans, given their bestial features.

[Spore]

Keep in mind that humans do not grow "bigger, stronger and more fearsome" just because they have grown up in the wilderness. At least not stronger than professional athletes due to the restrictive body limitations. Explaining an Str 22 human without magic or at LEAST several generations of savagery is very hard.

[Larkas]

The best advice I can give any DM is this: don't be constrained by what you see in the real world, even regarding mundane characters and creatures.

[Dr. Azkur]

Keep in mind that humans do not grow "bigger, stronger and more fearsome" just because they have grown up in the wilderness. At least not stronger than professional athletes due to the restrictive body limitations. Explaining an Str 22 human without magic or at LEAST several generations of savagery is very hard.

Nothing ever does, that's not how evolution works. The Feral template only makes traditional sense because it implies the creature in question is a wilder breed, conditioned by natural selection in an inhospitable place.

[Psyren]

Keep in mind that humans do not grow "bigger, stronger and more fearsome" just because they have grown up in the wilderness. At least not stronger than professional athletes due to the restrictive body limitations. Explaining an Str 22 human without magic or at LEAST several generations of savagery is very hard.

Feral creatures become monstrous humanoids so this is pretty easy to rationalize. They aren't normal humans anymore.

[Spore]

Nothing ever does, that's not how evolution works. The Feral template only makes traditional sense because it implies the creature in question is a wilder breed, conditioned by natural selection in an inhospitable place.

Genomes evolve there is no doubt. But even quick evolution requires several generations to unfold. So unless your humanoids are forced to adapt or perish the normale human(oid) ingenuity would kick in. They would use their craftsmanship or previous knowledge of civilization and return to their normal ways. Nothing says "stranded human" more than building a hut, carving a spear and being hunter-gatherer.

While this would lead into a stat array far more physical than mental this is no excuse to template something.


Feral creatures become monstrous humanoids so this is pretty easy to rationalize. They aren't normal humans anymore.

I thought this is argument is too thin. No one perceives creature types ingame. Humanoids are technically animals but not in game terms.

[Psyren]

I thought this is argument is too thin. No one perceives creature types ingame. Humanoids are technically animals but not in game terms.

Right, but it's possible to not perceive strength scores either. How can you tell if someone is a 22 vs. a 20 or 18? The only real way is to watch them hoist something heavy.

Vampires for instance appear very similar to how they did before, but have +6 Str. Some even appear gaunt and skeletal rather than heavily muscled.

It's possible in this game to have massive strength and look like everyone else. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0951.html)

[Spore]

It's possible in this game to have massive strength and look like everyone else. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0951.html)

Which strikes me as odd because he isn't nailed to the floor now is he? There is a certain suspension of disbelief needed for fantasy but strong lightweighted people should be still grounded in SOME kind of realism.

[Psyren]

Which strikes me as odd because he isn't nailed to the floor now is he?

If you're looking for realistic biophysics in D&D, good luck to you sir. You may as well ask why the skeleton of every creature about Huge doesn't collapse under its own weight.

[Spore]

If you're looking for realistic biophysics in D&D, good luck to you sir.

There is a differentiation between actual physics and perceived environment. Getting pulled away is a thing that any ordinary kid could have experienced. Having a bone structure like a creature of Earth's ancient Megafaune however is paleontological knowledge but not perceived environment. If you toss all realism aside you might as well let your game world's clocks spontaneously melt and reenact a Salvador Dali painting (and this is stuff that belongs into the protean portfolio not on the material and normal plane for most adventures).

There are certain basics that shouldn't be crossed all at the same time to allow our brain to functionally understand imaginary worlds. If left was up, and the color pink would be an insult to trees you would fail to grasp the story because you would be concentrating your attention too much on side-things. That Roy is still standing on the deck is mere plot convenience (because the DM/Rich said so, a quest to look for Roy because he was blown from the airship would interrupt the Hel/Thor storyline).

[Psyren]

Whatever means you use to justify it, more power to you. *shrug*

The vampire point still stands though - they don't suddenly start rippling with muscle and they get a bigger Str boost than these things do. The type change may justify it for you or it may not, but it's hardly a unique situation in this game.

[Spore]

To use your own arguments: Their typing changes to undead (so their existence is powered by negative energy) and I would call vampires highly magical creatures which brings us closer to the: "A wizard did it." plot explanation.

[Psyren]

Agreed, I would certainly consider them more magical than a monstrous humanoid. But MHs include such fantastical creatures as centaurs, gorgons medusas, minotaurs and gargoyles. So a wizard still did it, just less overtly.

[Spore]

I agree. But without supernatural influence someone shouldn't spontaneously warp into a monstrous humanoid due to being in a forest for its first 20 years. Gain no languages? Sure. Never learn to read? Of course not. But you convinced me. A template is the most appropriate idea for that. But I would use a weaker one for a human living in the wild since birth.

I would honestly write one myself.

Str/Dex/Con +2 and Int/Cha -2, Endurance as bonus-feat, scent ability and low-light vision ability. No language + Illiteracy when not gaining at least 1 rank in Linguistics. Not being able to communicate without training makes it so that the superior attribute choices for melees isn't even worth LA.

[Flickerdart]

Why not just a level in barbarian? I feel like someone who survives for 20 years in the wild probably deserves a PC class level.

[m149307]

Ok, would it make sense to have a feral human with the mercantile background? I was thinking that I came from a wealthy family, but got seperated (or kidnapped, which would sound more fun) and have had no way to find my back to them as they travel the region alot. I was young when kidnapped, so I had to live in the wilderness (thus feral) but also can say who my family is and get the bonus from mercantile like that. Could it work?

[Anlashok]

But without supernatural influence someone shouldn't spontaneously warp into a monstrous humanoid due to being in a forest for its first 20 years.

Good thing that doesn't happen.

You know, seeing how it's an inherited template.

Boggles the mind though that "fairly strong humans" is where you're drawing you line in the sand on realism.

Dragons, wizards, demons, magic... all fine and dandy, but lifting 520 pounds over your head? No sir, not in my world.

[m149307]

Hey, can we stop going on tangents please? I am trying to get help here, not the topic locked. Can someone either answer my question above or not comment?

[squiggit]

Ok, would it make sense to have a feral human with the mercantile background? I was thinking that I came from a wealthy family, but got seperated (or kidnapped, which would sound more fun) and have had no way to find my back to them as they travel the region alot. I was young when kidnapped, so I had to live in the wilderness (thus feral) but also can say who my family is and get the bonus from mercantile like that. Could it work?

You'd have to ask your DM on that one. By the book Feral is an inherited template, which means your character has to be born with it.

[Dr. Azkur]

Anyway... does it specifically say it was 20 years? It's been some time since I opened SS. 20 years is surely a ridiculously short amount of time for evolution to do anything (it's just one generation). You'll find templates are useful tools to apply as much as you like, but when there's no clear reason on the causes, then state the causes yourself! I like looking at it from the realistic perspective, the one that separates breeds (like Feral Garguns from Goliaths), but it's a nice thing to give to a cleric of Karaan, isn't it?


Hey, can we stop going on tangents please? I am trying to get help here, not the topic locked. Can someone either answer my question above or not comment?

Savage Species pg. 115. (A "feral human", is a human with the Feral Creature template applied to it. That's it)

The thread has been unlocked for discussing 'tangents' (in fact, it has been since the very first reply, which stated the same information I did).