JRPG inspired steampunkish game

[Shinken]

Hey guys.
I was thinking and I realized it has been a long time since I've tried a d20 game inspired by classic JRPGs (Final Fantasy IV, V and VI, Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, etc). So I want to do that and I want to do Pathfinder. What I'm looking for are ideas on what I should do.

Which elements of Pathfinder are best suited for a JRPG style game?
How should I make the setting? I have no idea on which plot I'm going to run.
Which 3rd party material should I use? I'm definitely going to use Path of War and Psionics Unleashed, but what else?
Are there any items or monsters you think work specially well in such a format?
Should I start the game with few players and gradually expand the roster, as it usually happens in JRPGs?
What steampunk support is there in Pathfinder?

Any suggestions would be very very welcome.

Things I've already decided:
Races: Aside from human, I'm not sure which races I'm going to include. Probably not more than 6.
Classes: I want to emphasize versatility and coolness, pretty much like the best JRPGs out there. I'm thinking of nudging my players toward Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, Warpriest, Bloodrager, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, Swashbuckler, Investigator, Ranger, Paladin, Stalker, Warlord, Warder and Ninja. I'm not gonna ban anything, I just think these classes make more sense.
Plot: After thinking a while, I have the plot more or less decided. There is a country where magic is very controlled and some people rebel against this. We spend some time setting up battles between the government and the rebels - the theme here is 'the horrors of war' - until the rebels realize the government has a super weapon and try to destroy it/steal it. When they get there, they realize the government never really planned to use the thing since it was so dangerous, which is part of the reason on why they have so tight leashes on magic. After this superweapon corrupts either one of the players or one of their close allies, it tries to destroy the whole world to end all wars, replacing death with undeath. Theme is not 'united we stand, divided we fall' as the rebels and the government need to work together to save themselves.
Setting: I want something steampunk-ish.

I have created two related threads in the homebrew forum regarding world building (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360138-Help-me-design-a-steampunk-country&p=17721313#post17721313) and an artifact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360142-Help-me-design-an-artifact-of-doom&p=17721401#post17721401) to move from phase 1 to phase 2.

[Malroth]

Have the guy who doesn't bother writing their backstory be the Amnesiac loner with the existing relationship to the BBEG (every JRPG has one) just remember to make liberal usage of clones/astral projections in any scene's where the villian shows up since PC's are remarkably good at interupting cutscenes with sucessful alpha strikes vs things 15 levels higher than them.

[Spore]

As for player development you typically end up with almost godlike powers. And while in some JRPGs you start off killing wounded diseased wolf cubs in others you start of at a decent level. By the time you are at the final boss however you are by far the strongest thing in the game universe short of (demi-)gods.

You should consider mythic rules. Maybe even give your players a choice or set character choices for certain parts. Everyone makes 2 characters and based on which character would most likely come along they choose them. The main problem is that JRPGs are singleplayer ones and your first character is mostly the main character. Squall (and later Rinoa) for example ist the most important character in that game. You can't have that in an P&P RPG. First most players want their time in the spotlight. Then a single guy shouldn't be responsible for ALL decisions.

The main story in JRPGs is linear while a strong point about P&P is freedom of choice. It is considered an insult if you accuse the DM of railroading the story like JRPGs do.

[Larkas]

In my humble opinion, Pathfinder isn't the best d20 system to run that game. I'd really recommend BESM d20, and failing that, Mutants & Masterminds. Both have SRDs readily available on the net, if you're willing to give them a read.

If you're still bent on using Pathfinder, though, keep in mind that PCs in JRPGs are strong - even earth-shattering so. They are also remarkably versatile most of the time. A fighter has no place in that game, and neither does a rogue or a barbarian. I'd limit the players to Tier 1-3 classes (never thought I'd say that). The wizard models Chrono Trigger's Magus reasonably well, for example, and magus is great for any "mystic knight"-style character (I even adapted it for use as a red mage for a fellow Playgrounder; search for "red magus"). If you need to model any monk-like character, such as Tifa or Sabin, go the unarmed swordsage way (I reckon Path of War might've something along those lines too).

Now, just because you're giving the characters Tier 1 potential, it doesn't mean you need to give them Tier 1 power. You should limit their spell choice somewhat (this is a JRPG, after all!). This might save you some trouble later. Maybe Meteor Swarm is a extant spell, whereas Wish or Gate is not.

And don't forget, these limitations need not apply to the BBEG, who at the final confrontation should still be stronger than the PCs (though much less than at the start of the game).

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, in my current game (D&D 3.5) I now use several rules and subsystems based on stuff from various JRPGs, though the game itself isn't based firmly around one (yet...you raise an army, recruit people, deal with politics, fight massive war battles against an evil empire, and even sort of get a base of operations...I swear, if the number of recruitable NPCs + PCs ends up adding up to 108, I'm shoe-horning in some "stars of destiny" fluff from Suikoden). These include:

- The party Fighter basically got the Monado from Xenoblade, complete with having visions of future calamity that he can then change with various options as an immediate action. From the character's perspective, he has no conscious control over when he gets the visions; OOC since no one knows how the dice will fall in advance it's handled via retcon of what just happened by labeling it "a vision" and not reality. He can then have the victim PC 5 ft step out of the way, grant a save reroll, and some other options.

- The war battles are going to utilize a unit-based mass combat system I based around Suikoden (2 and 5, in particular) and the fan-made game Exit Fate.

- The party has a shaper psion and a summon-loving druid, both fans of pokemon, so I created pokemon-style trainer battle rules as a fun minigame.

- I also just added a Suikoden-style dueling subsystem. It's an elaborate rock-paper-scissors with three options that trump one option and are weak to another (Attack beat Defend beats Wild Attack beats Attack), and the NPC has a dialogue before each pass to hint at what he'll choose. Allows me to have a single PC fight an equal (or slightly higher) level foe solo and win fairly reliably.

- Before the party "monk" (actually my homebrewed much better version of Battle Dancer, but...basically a monk) player decided to switch to a higher tier build (Wild Shape Ranger / Master of Many Forms), I was planning to give her a buff to put her more on par with the casters and the premonition-empowered fighter with an ability based on the Dragoon transformations from Legend of Dragoon. The idea would've been to give the shaper psion the ability to form an astral construct around her as a suit that provides stat and armor enhancements, construct immunities, and whatever menu options she decided to choose at that moment. But alas, had to shelve that one. The party is now all tier 3 or higher and needs no more help.

I can provide my rules for any of those if you want.

[Spore]

The party Fighter basically got the Monado from Xenoblade, complete with having visions of future calamity that he can then change with various options as an immediate action.

Quite elegant I say. I always feel like the non-Monado wielding PCs in Xenoblade are more like decoration gameplaywise. It's odd for an JRPG to have PCs that are utterly helpless without the "weapon of legends".

The Monado is the only thing that can harm the evil robots in Xenoblade. And only two a few humans are able to wield it. It's imho a terrible plot point.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Quite elegant I say. I always feel like the non-Monado wielding PCs in Xenoblade are more like decoration gameplaywise. It's odd for an JRPG to have PCs that are utterly helpless without the "weapon of legends".

The Monado is the only thing that can harm the evil robots in Xenoblade. And only two a few humans are able to wield it. It's imho a terrible plot point.

Since the campaign isn't based around humans homs versus constructs mechons, I left that crap out, as well as...the late game developments. It simply is a badass lightsabre that grants the ability to see and change the future in my game. It can only be used to reverse bad stuff to the party / allied NPCs, not to say...give an attack reroll or make an enemy reroll their save vs. the PC caster's glitterdust. It's really powerful, but it benefits the entire party and has basically left the PC *starving* for swift actions (he's actually a fighter/warblade/barbarian...he needs swift to change stance or recover maneuvers), plus...he hasn't figured out the best ways to use it in a situation yet and had horrible luck, so it's failed to "change the future" the majority of the times he's used it thus far. Though it has had its moments.

The Living Blade (the name the campaign has for the weapon I co-opted) does feature its own wielder-level based enhancement progression and I let the player pick the special properties from a thematic list I compiled. Including one custom option, "Living Blade Buster." It's the only real reference to the Blade being awesome against non-living foes.
Standard action; Expends highest level strike maneuver currently readied, can't be used if no strikes are readied. Once used, it cannot be used again for 5 rounds. The Living Blade surges with power and the blade briefly extends to 60 ft long in just enough time to make a single 90-degree swing with it. This counts as an area attack and the attack roll becomes a Reflex (half) save DC against the damage. Depending on how swung, it could be a 60 ft 2D conic fan shape when slashed horizontally, or be like a 60 ft line effect from [wielder] that also hits directly above him and any in the arc on the way down, etc... Damage dealt is doubled against nonliving creatures. Power Attack can be used, it effectively lowers the save DC for more damage. Equivalent to a +1 bonus.

[Shinken]

As for player development you typically end up with almost godlike powers. And while in some JRPGs you start off killing wounded diseased wolf cubs in others you start of at a decent level. By the time you are at the final boss however you are by far the strongest thing in the game universe short of (demi-)gods.
I'll probably make this a 5-12 campaign, maybe with a 1-5 prologue during which the party is gathered.


You should consider mythic rules. Maybe even give your players a choice or set character choices for certain parts. Everyone makes 2 characters and based on which character would most likely come along they choose them. The main problem is that JRPGs are singleplayer ones and your first character is mostly the main character. Squall (and later Rinoa) for example ist the most important character in that game. You can't have that in an P&P RPG. First most players want their time in the spotlight. Then a single guy shouldn't be responsible for ALL decisions.
Maybe nonmagical characters could be mythical, I guess?


The main story in JRPGs is linear while a strong point about P&P is freedom of choice. It is considered an insult if you accuse the DM of railroading the story like JRPGs do.
About linear stories, I could say a whole lot about that, but that certainly won't be a concern. I don't even know what the story will be at this point.


In my humble opinion, Pathfinder isn't the best d20 system to run that game. I'd really recommend BESM d20, and failing that, Mutants & Masterminds. Both have SRDs readily available on the net, if you're willing to give them a read.
BESM d20 was the worst d20 book I have ever read. It was dreadful. Worst 50 bucks I have ever spent.
While I like Mutans & Masterminds, I want a game with tactical positioning. Other than that, my groups are already used to Pathfinder. Also, Pathfinder gives me a wealth of ready-to-go options quite easily, while M&M would take me a lot of effort to run. Also, I have just bought a lot of Pathfinder game aids and miniatures.
But yeah, M&M probably fits the JRPG mold better.


If you're still bent on using Pathfinder, though, keep in mind that PCs in JRPGs are strong - even earth-shattering so. They are also remarkably versatile most of the time. A fighter has no place in that game, and neither does a rogue or a barbarian. I'd limit the players to Tier 1-3 classes (never thought I'd say that). The wizard models Chrono Trigger's Magus reasonably well, for example, and magus is great for any "mystic knight"-style character (I even adapted it for use as a red mage for a fellow Playgrounder; search for "red magus"). If you need to model any monk-like character, such as Tifa or Sabin, go the unarmed swordsage way (I reckon Path of War might've something along those lines too).
I don't think that's a rule of the format. Take Hoshigami, for example, where you are a wimp until mid-game. But I get where you're coming from.
What I think I'm going to do is suggest use of versatile classes (say, Bard, Magus, Warpriest, Inquisitor, Psychic Warrior, etc). I might vetto fullcasters, though, since this is going to be a spare campaign and I'd like an easier time writing a plotline. So probably half-casters + PoW or something like that.


Now, just because you're giving the characters Tier 1 potential, it doesn't mean you need to give them Tier 1 power. You should limit their spell choice somewhat (this is a JRPG, after all!). This might save you some trouble later. Maybe Meteor Swarm is a extant spell, whereas Wish or Gate is not.

And don't forget, these limitations need not apply to the BBEG, who at the final confrontation should still be stronger than the PCs (though much less than at the start of the game).
I haven't figured out the story yet, but I'm probably going with a war of some sort, PCs being involved in the war and the search of a weapon to finish such war. Then someone merges with the weapon (maybe one of the PCs?) and becomes the real villain. Of course, I'd be using some general as a decoy villain until then. Classic Final Fantasy.


Well, in my current game (D&D 3.5) I now use several rules and subsystems based on stuff from various JRPGs, though the game itself isn't based firmly around one (yet...you raise an army, recruit people, deal with politics, fight massive war battles against an evil empire, and even sort of get a base of operations...I swear, if the number of recruitable NPCs + PCs ends up adding up to 108, I'm shoe-horning in some "stars of destiny" fluff from Suikoden).
That sounds pretty interesting. Suikoden is so cool.
I'm really interested in that mass combat system you're using!

Do you guys have any suggestions on which races I should focus on to build the world? I don't want to deal with 30+ intelligent races...

[Person_Man]

5E has a game mechanic where everyone by default can move, take their Action, and then continue moving. This makes the game much easier to play in the "theater of the mind" because you don't have to worry about where you're standing in most cases. When you use a tabletop map, it looks and feels a lot like a classic JRPG, because players and monsters tend to be line up on opposite sides of a room, and then they move forward, do something, then move backwards. If you want to duplicate that feel in your game, consider importing the rule and eliminating attacks of opportunity.

[Shinken]

5E has a game mechanic where everyone by default can move, take their Action, and then continue moving. This makes the game much easier to play in the "theater of the mind" because you don't have to worry about where you're standing in most cases. When you use a tabletop map, it looks and feels a lot like a classic JRPG, because players and monsters tend to be line up on opposite sides of a room, and then they move forward, do something, then move backwards. If you want to duplicate that feel in your game, consider importing the rule and eliminating attacks of opportunity.

Can't do away with attacks of opportunity, they are the meat of tactical positioning.

[Faily]

I second the notion of using Mythic-rules for a JRPG inspired game, considering how powerful you get in those games (maxed out FFX-HD recently... so powerful!).

Considering how Summons have traditionally worked in Final Fantasy, are you going to do any changes to Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally/Planar Ally/Gate? Maybe separate spells for a specific type of monster? Only one summon to be active at one time?

Will magic items mostly be limited to Weapons and Armor + potions, or will you keep the usual D&D approach of a wide selection of magic items?

[Shinken]

I second the notion of using Mythic-rules for a JRPG inspired game, considering how powerful you get in those games (maxed out FFX-HD recently... so powerful!).

Considering how Summons have traditionally worked in Final Fantasy, are you going to do any changes to Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally/Planar Ally/Gate? Maybe separate spells for a specific type of monster? Only one summon to be active at one time?

Will magic items mostly be limited to Weapons and Armor + potions, or will you keep the usual D&D approach of a wide selection of magic items?

I might do away with summons entirely. My players hardly ever use summon spells anyway.
The Summoner I like most in FF is the FFX model, with is basically the Summoner class anyway.

[Faily]

Fair enough. ^_^ And I agree that FFX had the most interesting Summon in any FF-game, as I always thought it silly that you could summon this powerful being... who just perfomed a single attacked and then GTFO until you summoned them again. :smalltongue:

[Shinken]

Updated the OP with some relevant info.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions, keep them coming, there is still a lot left to brainstorm!

[Ken Murikumo]

Here's some clockwork constructs to fit your theme:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/clockwork.html#_clockwork

[Larkas]

BESM d20 was the worst d20 book I have ever read. It was dreadful. Worst 50 bucks I have ever spent.

Huh. Now that's a first. BESM d20 is by no means unanimous, not by a long shot. But it was the first point-buy system based on d20, and for something to come out so early in the system's development cycle, the author's comments on its problems are fairly spot on. But BESM d20 is much better used as a GURPS-like than a D&D-like system, in spite of its origins. It has a lot of potential, if only you're interested in refluffing everything for every single campaign. Anyways, I don't think we can find a middle ground in this, and I'll stop derailing the thread. :smallsmile:

[Spore]

For races I would actually use FF as it it quite close to classical themes.

Humans
Catfolk
Gnomes
Elves
Aasimar/Tiefling

One "normal" race, a beast race, a small race, an "evil" and "good" race (you may mash them into one race) and a long living normal race that could balance the non-caster/technology out with magic/nature theme.

But honestly only limit your population to a few races. Your average JRPG character is the most special snowflake that ever flaked.

[Shinken]

I was considering androids (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/advanced-races-11-20-rp/android-16-rp), but I would have to change a lot of stuff. They wouldn't be affect but morale bonuses, I'd remove nanite surge and I don't how I would approach the healing angle.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'm playing in an FF10 game right now, and before that I was in a Zelda game! In both cases the GMs used the race building system as a rough guideline to create some races. They also solicited player feedback so that as a group we could iron out imbalances among the races prior to the start of the game.

I agree with your idea of nudging players towards some of the more oddball classes. I would note, in my experience most players in a JRPG style game who go with a Wizard or Sorcerer wind up wanting to be a Black Mage. With an Evocation focus those classes tend not to actually be over powered. I would also bring in the ACG classes since the book is about to come out. Some of those classes would work out very well in a JRPG.

For settings, you could create a custom FF setting, or work with one of the settings from the various games. Personally, I'd love to see a game set in the FF9 realm. You could also go with the Wild ARMs series, or any of a number of others. As for steampunk resources, there's already quite a bit scattered around. Check out some of the alchemical weapons for example, you can get pretty decent grenades right at level 1. A Steampunk feel is easier to achieve if your players choose classes and archetypes that fit the theme however.

I also want to second the idea of Mythic Powers. Alternatively, Gestalt characters can work well for JRPG heroes too.

[Zubrowka74]

Wouldn't 3.5 ToB be a better match for JRPGs than PF?

As for Steampunk I don't know. I think M&M is pretty flexible to do all of this. It's lacking pre-made arms & equiments but you can custom-make just about anything.

[Shinken]

Wouldn't 3.5 ToB be a better match for JRPGs than PF?
Definitely not.
Not the good ones, anyway.


As for Steampunk I don't know. I think M&M is pretty flexible to do all of this. It's lacking pre-made arms & equiments but you can custom-make just about anything.
Yeah, I already mentioned my reasons for not using M&M earlier in the thread.