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BRC
2014-07-03, 12:56 PM
Just a random thought I had.

What if Ressurection magic (Raise dead and the like) only affected a random segment of the population. And there is some way to discover this without killing somebody and shoving 5000gp worth of Diamonds at their corpse.
It's from this segment of the population that you get Adventurers, wandering murder-hobos who set out to live a dangerous life of fame and fortune.
So, in short, a basic generic DnD Setting, but with a little more explanation/acknowledgement of the basic tropes.

Why does the mayor hire you to clear out those bandits instead of his better trained and more numerous town guards? Because those guards can only die once, meanwhile you Adventurers are expendable.

Why do people become Adventurers? Because they discover that, for them, violent death is only permanent if you're broke, and you can make a lot of money risking life and limb.

It also leads to a society with a clear "Adventuring" social class. Those who can be resurrected are expected to pick up the nearest sharp object, find 3-4 similar friends, and go loot tombs.

Madeiner
2014-07-03, 01:10 PM
That's really a great idea. I would use right now, if only my campaign wasnt that well established by now.
I would use it mostly so people, and players, know which NPCs can be resurrected and which can't, and it's based on a proved, effective and intelligent criteria.

It allows adventurers to be resurrected without problems, but it doesnt work with their loved ones or friends.
Important NPCs can be defined as adventurers or not, as the DM sees fit.

People could also gain or lose adventurer status from their action. If you stop adventuring and become the king of elsewhere, you will drop adventurer status in few months or years.
People would also be more inclined in being more heroic, as it could mean they gain adventurer status and maybe can be resurrected.
This fact alone would create an entirely different society.

Segev
2014-07-03, 01:22 PM
Definitely an interesting idea. Kind-of like some people are left or right handed.

Would Reincarnation be a separate thing, workable on a different (potentially overlapping, but not necessarily) segment of the population, or would being able to be brought back via Resurrection/Raise Dead guarantee Reincarnation as a possibility, as well?

Does this tie in to the various forms of immortality people seek, from undeath (as a lich or vampire or the like) to anything else?

Answering these questions can lead to fun stuff in the campaign setting, too.

BRC
2014-07-03, 01:55 PM
Definitely an interesting idea. Kind-of like some people are left or right handed.

Would Reincarnation be a separate thing, workable on a different (potentially overlapping, but not necessarily) segment of the population, or would being able to be brought back via Resurrection/Raise Dead guarantee Reincarnation as a possibility, as well?

Does this tie in to the various forms of immortality people seek, from undeath (as a lich or vampire or the like) to anything else?

Answering these questions can lead to fun stuff in the campaign setting, too.
I would say Reincarnation is just another type of Resurrection.
Maybe call it "Strong Souled", some people are Strong Souled. When they die, their soul is strong enough that it can be brought back from the afterlife to inhabit a new body (or a repaired version of their old one).
Normal people's souls cannot be brought back in such a way.
With Undeath, I'm not sure. Maybe only Strong Souled people can become some of the stronger Undead (Vampires, Liches, ect). Or maybe Undeath follows it's own rules.

Fire Lord Pi
2014-07-03, 02:12 PM
I really like this idea. I, too, don't like the idea that life is so cheap as 5k in diamonds. In my campaign world, I made it so only a VERY small number of people can be brought back (if the gods and their divine politics allow it).

This would have some amazing social repercussions. Kings would pray for adventurer sons who could rule for a century, but peasant mothers would beg that the gods give them normal children, lest they be forced into a dangerous life of constant pain and death.

Amaril
2014-07-03, 02:12 PM
I think undeath should be independent of resurrection potential. In fact, that would make a lot of sense; maybe the ability to be resurrected is granted to certain people by the gods or whatever power holds dominion over souls, and undeath is an abomination to them because it represents people seeking to cheat death who weren't meant to be able to do so.

BRC
2014-07-03, 02:17 PM
I really like this idea. I, too, don't like the idea that life is so cheap as 5k in diamonds. In my campaign world, I made it so only a VERY small number of people can be brought back (if the gods and their divine politics allow it).

This would have some amazing social repercussions. Kings would pray for adventurer sons who could rule for a century, but peasant mothers would beg that the gods give them normal children, lest they be forced into a dangerous life of constant pain and death.

Which is an interesting social repercussion.

A Noble adventurer can set out, confident that if they die their parents can have them brought back to life.

A lowborn adventurer, if they die before they can raise enough money, or get rich enough friends, to be brought back, is just as dead as everybody else. Johnny the Peasant may be capable of being brought back, but nobody is going to shell out the diamonds to make it happen.
However, society says that if you can be ressurected, you should go off and be an adventurer, because you can face the dangers others cannot, and if you are successful, you will find fame and fortune beyond your wildest dreams. Meanwhile, dungeons are littered with the corpses of poor adventurers with their grandfather's swords who died with nobody to pay for their Resurrection.

Talentless
2014-07-03, 02:28 PM
This is really nice, and you can even take it a step further, only those who are this "strong soul'd" or whatever you want to call being resurrectable can take PC class levels, thus giving NPC classes a reason to actually exist in large numbers.

BRC
2014-07-03, 02:32 PM
This is really nice, and you can even take it a step further, only those who are this "strong soul'd" or whatever you want to call being resurrectable can take PC class levels, thus giving NPC classes a reason to actually exist in large numbers.

I wouldn't go that far.
Although perhaps Strong Souled individuals are noted as being able to become skilled at a much faster rate, which is why Johnny Fighter, who had basic training as a town millitiaman before he went adventuring for six months is a sixth level fighter, as is Sir Wenderly, a non-adventuring Knight with years of training and battlefield experience nuder his belt.

Segev
2014-07-03, 02:53 PM
If the expectation is that Adventurers will take up Adventuring, to the point that social pressure would make being an Adventurer who refuses to do so viewed as a disgrace, then there would be a real purpose behind Adventuring Guilds. Whether noble and upright or sinister and exploitative, these organizations would "collect" the young sports who couldn't afford their own Raise Dead efforts, and would collect dues (probably hefty ones that low-level adventurers could never properly afford) and "loan" wealth to their members who cannot pay them yet.

They might effectively indenture their peasant boy Adventurers, keeping them stuck working for them over and over as they keep getting more in debt. Or they might be more benevolent and not force onerous tithes onto them, allowing them to pay off debts as they level. Regardless, the near-guarantee of being Raised would be there for any who chose to join. And the pressure to join would be tremendous. Not only for the promise that they WILL get Raised, but because the less scrupulous organizations might actively make examples of those who do not, and certainly would promote PR campaigns against them.

Those who refuse to join and also refuse to take up Adventuring, as we discussed earlier, would be viewed as cowards, selfish people who squander a gift. The idea would almost be that they owe everybody who isn't an Adventurer their service as an Adventurer. Those who refuse to join but choose to Adventure "freelance" would likely have some sort of truly derogatory name. Maybe "freelancer" is honestly a dirty word in those societies most steeped in the Guild propaganda. Maybe there's another, worse word and "freelancer" is the preferred "don't call me a thief, call me a treasure reallocation specialist" sort of thing.

But they're built up by the Guild as untrustworthy louts who will steal and lie and cheat and are only not members of the Guild because they have a nefarious purpose and don't want to be answerable. And, since they lack the guaranteed Raising, they obviously will cheat you out of all of your money, if not rob you outright to get it.

At least, that is the propaganda.

More benevolent and forthright Guilds might be kinder, but the pressure is still there. They still probably feel Adventurers owe something to the rest of the world, and look down on those who won't Adventure at all (despite having the gift of being an Adventurer). They might be more forgiving of Freelancers, but they still have at least private concerns as to what makes them choose those risks. What are they hiding, or hiding from?

Still, the Guilds would have a genuine reason to exist in such a setting. They have a class of people they serve (and exploit), and these people would receive benefits both political and insurance-wise from the Guilds' activities in politics, finance, and in general. With Adventurers being more than just a job, but a quality that cannot be found in just anybody, they provide, too, a place to "store" these unique people and leave them accessible to the rest of society.

It is likely that Chruch membership would be a viable alternative to Guild membership. Perhaps Churches are the only Guilds out there, but it's better to have at least a few Guilds that are not directly subordinate to any one Church if only to allow for adventuring parties that work for such a Guild without having to all be worshippers of the same deity. But your paladins and clerics may well have their guild membership paid for by the Church, or simply be Church members who are contracted by the Guilds to work with non-religious Adventurers. Or at least non-divinely-empowered Adventurers.

Coidzor
2014-07-03, 05:22 PM
Just a random thought I had.

What if Ressurection magic (Raise dead and the like) only affected a random segment of the population. And there is some way to discover this without killing somebody and shoving 5000gp worth of Diamonds at their corpse.
It's from this segment of the population that you get Adventurers, wandering murder-hobos who set out to live a dangerous life of fame and fortune.
So, in short, a basic generic DnD Setting, but with a little more explanation/acknowledgement of the basic tropes.

Why does the mayor hire you to clear out those bandits instead of his better trained and more numerous town guards? Because those guards can only die once, meanwhile you Adventurers are expendable.

Why do people become Adventurers? Because they discover that, for them, violent death is only permanent if you're broke, and you can make a lot of money risking life and limb.

It also leads to a society with a clear "Adventuring" social class. Those who can be resurrected are expected to pick up the nearest sharp object, find 3-4 similar friends, and go loot tombs.

I like the general premise, I've favored something more along the lines that half of the population is in E6 and then progressively smaller subsections of it have a higher level cap, so those level 6 town guards are there because that's the height of their potential. I think I may combine the two ideas though.

Might fiddle about so that there's at least some way to resurrect non-adventurers just so that it's not completely out as a potential action in-game. I remember that World of Prime setting that explained levels as additional souls or soul layers and had been considering incorporating something like that in with the admittedly a bit videogamey idea of extra lives...

Thank you. :smallsmile:

Cowardly Griffo
2014-07-03, 05:42 PM
I think undeath should be independent of resurrection potential. In fact, that would make a lot of sense; maybe the ability to be resurrected is granted to certain people by the gods or whatever power holds dominion over souls, and undeath is an abomination to them because it represents people seeking to cheat death who weren't meant to be able to do so.I really like this. Especially when you combine it with notions of royalty. A king or queen who knows that they can die, permanently, might be all the more keen not to, no?

I could see a monarch twisted into agony and rage by the notion that their Divine Mandate is undercut by the ability of those beneath them to be effectively immortal, and seek out lichdom or some other type of undeath as a means of ruling forever. As they "should."

Or one who fears or hates undeath as just another type of death, but who protects their own life with all the desperate paranoia of a mad tyrant. Think the Red Queen, or Azula towards the end of Avatar.

Or maybe all this common knowledge about how resurrection works is accompanied by equal knowledge about how to stop it. I could see an order whose entire purpose is to kill these 'unnatural' Adventurers, and secret away their bodies so they can never be raised. A fanatical religious order is pretty obvious, but if we're already in "the science of souls" territory, maybe there's some hard evidence to suggest that resurrection interferes with the cycle of life, and it's an order of academics instead. Maybe the interference from resurrections is where aberrations, undead and other unpleasant things come from–which, ironically, leads to a greater need for Adventurers in the first place...

Amaril
2014-07-03, 06:02 PM
Maybe the interference from resurrections is where aberrations, undead and other unpleasant things come from–which, ironically, leads to a greater need for Adventurers in the first place...

Oh...oh, this is perfect. Think about this for a minute.

Some higher being reveals itself to a particular civilization and says "hey, I'm granting a select few of your people the ability to be resurrected by my divine magic". Seeing how awesome this is, the civilization decides to worship this being for giving them the gift of adventurers to protect them.

What they don't know is that the being granting the resurrection isn't a benevolent god--it's an eldritch monstrosity from the Far Realm. Every time someone is resurrected, the interference with the cycle of life allows them to bring more aberrant monsters into reality, and the more monsters there are, the more often the adventurers die and need to be resurrected, with the people being none the wiser. It's the perfect world-conquering evil scheme.

I need to make an actual game about this...

Cowardly Griffo
2014-07-03, 06:06 PM
Oh, that's good. It's like, every time someone goes through the skin of the world the wrong way 'round, it weakens the walls just a teensy bit more, and sending in a few monsters along the way weakens it even more.

Maybe it's not just a victory by numbers the eldritch monstrosity is seeking, but a breakdown of the wall completely? So the mortal plane becomes part of the Far Realm. Maybe they've done this before. Maybe this is the only mortal plane left.

Alex12
2014-07-03, 06:22 PM
Oh, that's good. It's like, every time someone goes through the skin of the world the wrong way 'round, it weakens the walls just a teensy bit more, and sending in a few monsters along the way weakens it even more.

Maybe it's not just a victory by numbers the eldritch monstrosity is seeking, but a breakdown of the wall completely? So the mortal plane becomes part of the Far Realm. Maybe they've done this before. Maybe this is the only mortal plane left.

Wow, okay. That's kinda dark.

Now what if the eldritch monstrosity isn't just planning on breaking the wall through that gradual weakening. After all, while the adventurers are on the other side, it's got it's tentacles in them. And who's most likely to be the sort with the most personal power available to them? Adventurers, that's who.
Suppose that, with resurrection, that eldritch monstrosity shoved a little bit extra into them. A tiny fragment of power. Nothing the adventurer can actually use, but enough to influence their behavior. Enough to maybe bypass their mental defenses in a specific way. And each time they're resurrected, that little extra bit gets bigger. When the walls between worlds are thin enough, or eroded away altogether, the eldritch monstrosity doesn't need to conquer, because all the adventurers are already hosts. It's got a ready-made army of the most powerful individuals in the mortal plane all just waiting for the right mental command to become willing and loyal servants and soldiers of the eldritch monstrosity.

Amaril
2014-07-03, 07:09 PM
Oh, that's good. It's like, every time someone goes through the skin of the world the wrong way 'round, it weakens the walls just a teensy bit more, and sending in a few monsters along the way weakens it even more.

Maybe it's not just a victory by numbers the eldritch monstrosity is seeking, but a breakdown of the wall completely? So the mortal plane becomes part of the Far Realm. Maybe they've done this before. Maybe this is the only mortal plane left.


Wow, okay. That's kinda dark.

Now what if the eldritch monstrosity isn't just planning on breaking the wall through that gradual weakening. After all, while the adventurers are on the other side, it's got it's tentacles in them. And who's most likely to be the sort with the most personal power available to them? Adventurers, that's who.
Suppose that, with resurrection, that eldritch monstrosity shoved a little bit extra into them. A tiny fragment of power. Nothing the adventurer can actually use, but enough to influence their behavior. Enough to maybe bypass their mental defenses in a specific way. And each time they're resurrected, that little extra bit gets bigger. When the walls between worlds are thin enough, or eroded away altogether, the eldritch monstrosity doesn't need to conquer, because all the adventurers are already hosts. It's got a ready-made army of the most powerful individuals in the mortal plane all just waiting for the right mental command to become willing and loyal servants and soldiers of the eldritch monstrosity.

...

:smalleek:

*Opens RPGMaker*

Cowardly Griffo
2014-07-03, 07:37 PM
PM me when the alpha / demo / Kickstarter is up. :smallcool:

Edit: no snark intended in the above at all. I would totally play a game based on this. I would offer my services, as I have a copy of VX Ace that I picked up on a Steam sale at some point but haven't played around with, but I can only imagine that a zero-experience person such as myself would be more of a hindrance than a help.

Coidzor
2014-07-04, 02:50 AM
That gave me goosebumps. And reminded me of the Orz from Star Control II, though they've got more in common with the Kaorti, aside from their view of reality being diametricallly opposed.

ChaosArchon
2014-07-04, 03:49 AM
Seriously, if theres a pbp game incorporating any of the above ideas (esp the eldritch horror using resurrection to screw with the fabric of reality) I am soooo in as a player! :smallbiggrin:

Madeiner
2014-07-04, 05:51 AM
That might well be my next campaign...

Alex12
2014-07-04, 05:56 AM
That might well be my next campaign...

Idea: the endgoal is to fight the eldritch horror. But the only way to do this effectively is to never die (or possibly go lich or something that ensures that your soul doesn't actually cross over in the first placy)
Of course, the players couldn't know this at the start, since it loses a lot of potency if the information is more widely known.

Amaril
2014-07-04, 10:50 AM
PM me when the alpha / demo / Kickstarter is up. :smallcool:

Edit: no snark intended in the above at all. I would totally play a game based on this. I would offer my services, as I have a copy of VX Ace that I picked up on a Steam sale at some point but haven't played around with, but I can only imagine that a zero-experience person such as myself would be more of a hindrance than a help.

VX Ace is the way to go :smallcool:

If you want, I can keep you apprised of development progress by PM. If you or anyone else here have any skills with programming, visual art design, or music, I could use help with all those; I'm good for writing, setting & character design, and mechanics design, but help on those would be welcome as well, if you want to provide it.

Don't worry about lack of experience, I only started working with the software recently myself :smallsmile:

hewhosaysfish
2014-07-04, 02:58 PM
[QUOTE=Cowardly Griffo;17718051]I could see a monarch twisted into agony and rage by the notion that their Divine Mandate is undercut by the ability of those beneath them to be effectively immortal,

Well, Raise Dead and its successors can't raise someone who's died of old age, so that puts a cap on things. They're not quite "immortal".
Of course Reincarnate gives the Reincarnee (if I may make up that word) a new young adult body so that could be used repeatedly for immortality but that would depend on being able to make up the lost level in between deaths (and regaining the material costs and dealing with changing species).



Now what if the eldritch monstrosity isn't just planning on breaking the wall through that gradual weakening. After all, while the adventurers are on the other side, it's got it's tentacles in them. And who's most likely to be the sort with the most personal power available to them? Adventurers, that's who.
Suppose that, with resurrection, that eldritch monstrosity shoved a little bit extra into them. A tiny fragment of power. Nothing the adventurer can actually use, but enough to influence their behavior. Enough to maybe bypass their mental defenses in a specific way. And each time they're resurrected, that little extra bit gets bigger. When the walls between worlds are thin enough, or eroded away altogether, the eldritch monstrosity doesn't need to conquer, because all the adventurers are already hosts. It's got a ready-made army of the most powerful individuals in the mortal plane all just waiting for the right mental command to become willing and loyal servants and soldiers of the eldritch monstrosity.

Makes me think of the Black Lantern Corps.

Alex12
2014-07-04, 04:32 PM
Well, Raise Dead and its successors can't raise someone who's died of old age, so that puts a cap on things. They're not quite "immortal".
Of course Reincarnate gives the Reincarnee (if I may make up that word) a new young adult body so that could be used repeatedly for immortality but that would depend on being able to make up the lost level in between deaths (and regaining the material costs and dealing with changing species).

There's other ways to become immortal too, though most of them are considered evil. Lichdom, Necropolitan, and other flavors of undead are probably the easiest (and unlike zombies, I could see sapient undead-ification maintaining your old mind and personality being restricted to the Adventuring sort), though there's also at least one spell (Ensul's Soultheft from City of Splendors:Waterdeep) that permits immortality. That spell's one of the ones I agree with the [Evil] tag.
There's always the Elan transformation.

Socksy
2014-07-05, 07:04 AM
There's always the Elan transformation.

Which leads to losing all your levels... so probably more for low-level PCs or (politically) powerful NPCs.

And hey...

Elans are aberrations, remember?

That ties in waaaaay too well with the things everyone else has said about the far realm creatures and raising the dead.