ToB Clawlock?

[malonkey1]

I was wanting to make a Clawlock for the next campaign I was in, and I was curious as to how I might include Tome of Battle in my build. Any advice on dips, feats, and items? I don't care about durability, I want to jump in and murder things before they get the chance to hurt me.

[Shinken]

Dip Warblade. Take Sudden Leap plus a bunch of other Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers. That's pretty much it.

[Starmage21]

Unless you're gestalt, dont bother with anything remotely maneuver-y. Some of the boosts from Tiger-Claw can help you out, as will the stances, but strike maneuvers are standard actions. You wont be able to use them with eldritch blast.

[malonkey1]

Unless you're gestalt, dont bother with anything remotely maneuver-y. Some of the boosts from Tiger-Claw can help you out, as will the stances, but strike maneuvers are standard actions. You wont be able to use them with eldritch blast.

Well, yes, but it's a Clawlock. I won't be using EB, I'll be using Eldritch Claw.

[Sian]

correct me if i'm wrong (don't have the DragonMag its in) but Eldritch Claws are a Blast Shape you put on top of your Eldritch Blasts

[Snowbluff]

*examines tag "Pathfinder"*

*looks at title*

:smallconfused:

Anyway, I suggest a Diamond Mind/Tiger Claw Build. You can neglect your IL and pick up Time Stands still with Eternal Blade.

If you are fine with Devoted Spirit/Desert Flame, JPM could work. You would need to take a feat like Precocious Apprentice to enter as a warlock.

@Sian: No. Eldritch Claws is a separate ability.

[Vhaidara]

Pretty much what Snowbluff said. Especially the first part.

Take Warlock as long as you want, grabbing Hellfire if you feel you need all of teh damagez, and dip Warblade as late as you feel comfortable. Grab Tiger Claw everythings.

[Snowbluff]

I don't think HFW works with claws. Technically, the Claws are not Eldritch Blast.

[squiggit]

correct me if i'm wrong (don't have the DragonMag its in) but Eldritch Claws are a Blast Shape you put on top of your Eldritch Blasts

Nope. Eldritch Claws is a feat that lets you add your eldritch blast damage to unarmed attacks. So anything that gives you extra attacks is pretty awesome with it. Stuff like TSS and.. that mongoose attack thing. And haste.

Can't flurry with them (has a clause that calls that out, because we don't want monks to be any more OP, right?) But if for some reason you do feel the need to dip monk, you can flail with them if you go chaos.


grabbing Hellfire if you feel you need all of teh damagez
As a note, some people will tell you that Hellfire Warlock doesn't stack with Eldritch Claws because Claws isn't an actual use of EB.

[Vhaidara]

You can flurry with them if you grab Beast Strike.

A friend of mine built a thri-kreen clawlock with beast strike, monk's belt, superior unarmed strike, and a dip into whirling frenzy spirit lion totem barbarian. And Leap Attack.

[squiggit]

You can flurry with them if you grab Beast Strike.
Pretty sure that doesn't fix it. The problem isn't that it gives you a claw attack, the problem is that the feat specifically says you can't flurry with them.

[Snowbluff]

Pretty sure that doesn't fix it. The problem isn't that it gives you a claw attack, the problem is that the feat specifically says you can't flurry with them.

Which you don't with Beast Strike, the same way you can't apply HFB to Eldritch Claws.

[Vhaidara]

My understanding of the combo: Use Eldritch Claws. You now have a claw attack that does your EB damage + your unarmed strike damage. Take Beast Strike, which adds a natural weapon (such as a claw) onto the damage of your unarmed strikes. Add the damage from your Eldritch Claws to your unarmed strike. Flurry with unarmed strike (getting EC and 2x US damage each time)

[137beth]

*examines tag "Pathfinder"*

*looks at title*

:smallconfused:



My first guess was that he is playing pathfinder rules with 3.5 stuff mixed in. Of course, that raises the obvious question of what skill his group is using for Diamond Mind.

[malonkey1]

*examines tag "Pathfinder"*

*looks at title*

:smallconfused:

Anyway, I suggest a Diamond Mind/Tiger Claw Build. You can neglect your IL and pick up Time Stands still with Eternal Blade.

If you are fine with Devoted Spirit/Desert Flame, JPM could work. You would need to take a feat like Precocious Apprentice to enter as a warlock.

@Sian: No. Eldritch Claws is a separate ability.

*notes incorrect tag, corrects it.*

Thank you for pointing that out.

As for JPM, I don't think that'd do much good for Warlock, sadly. I'll look into Tiger Claw & Diamond Mind, though. Any particular recommendations as far as stances and maneuvers?

[Snowbluff]

As for JPM, I don't think that'd do much good for Warlock, sadly.


A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast.
It would advance your invocations and EB damage.

The save replacers would be good. Blood in the Water is good if you can land the crits. Dancing Mongoose is great.

[malonkey1]

It would advance your invocations and EB damage.

Well, yes, but many JPM class features require spell slots, so I can't use the class fully. That's all I was saying. It's still perfectly valid for keeping Claw damage while gaining maneuvers and initiator level.


The save replacers would be good. Blood in the Water is good if you can land the crits. Dancing Mongoose is great.

Alright, I think I like a Critfisher. Any good optimization tricks for that?

[Snowbluff]

Well, yes, but many JPM class features require spell slots, so I can't use the class fully. That's all I was saying. It's still perfectly valid for keeping Claw damage while gaining maneuvers and initiator level. With Precocious Apprentice, you can, but only to minimal degree.




Alright, I think I like a Critfisher. Any good optimization tricks for that?
Here's the trick about that. Unarmed is bad for crit fishing. However...


When you make an unarmed strike or grapple check to deal damage, you may add your claw or slam damage to your unarmed strike or grapple damage.

On a successful attack with an eldritch claw, you deal your normal amount of unarmed strike damage plus your eldritch blast damage.

A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon, such as Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or the like, can apply the benefits of those feats to any weapon that has the aptitude quality.

Using the broad interpretation of Aptitude Weapon, you could make it so you hit with your scimitars or something. :smalltongue:

[Eldaran]

The longer you delay a ToB dip, the better the maneuvers you can get. If you're starting at lower levels a dip at level 5 is fine, since this gets you second level maneuvers, otherwise delay until 9 or 13 for 3rds or 4ths. What class to dip depends on what you want out of it. Swordsage is my personal favorite for getting the most maneuvers, but Crusader and Warblade get you White Raven Tactics, which is basically the best maneuver ever.

For Swordsage at level 9 I'd grab Burning Blade, Sudden Leap, Cloak of Deception, and Shadow Jaunt. Use your other two maneuvers known to meet the prereqs. If you have the Invocation that lets you Dimension Door, take Zephyr Dance instead of Shadow Jaunt. For stance I'd take Giant Killing Style if you're small or even medium if you fight a lot of large+ enemies, or Assassin's Stance just for general purposes.

[Irk]

Using the broad interpretation of Aptitude Weapon, you could make it so you hit with your scimitars or something. :smalltongue:
That's pretty clever, I think it'd work. Combine that with lightning Maces (Aptitude the aptitudes) and add blood in the Water. With this set up, Imporved Criticical on it's own could be pretty good, netting you a 15-20 threat range and a chance to get extra attack on a crit, which is pretty nice for the investment of a two feats and the ToB level you were going to use anyway.

[malonkey1]

Using the broad interpretation of Aptitude Weapon, you could make it so you hit with your scimitars or something. :smalltongue:

Funny thing, I talke to my DM. That interpretation is in. Thanks for all the help, guys. I think my build will be able to fight pretty effectively.

[Snowbluff]

You're welcome. :smallsmile: