The Chameleon

[mikeejimbo]

So, I've read about the Chameleon PrC before, but I don't remember what book it's in. Does anyone know?

Also, do you think it's worth taking?

[Skyserpent]

Races of Destiny

[Cybren]

Races of Destiny. There's an excerpt on the wizards site i believe.

[mikeejimbo]

Thank you, now we can proceed this thread towards a general discussion of the Chameleon. I like the character idea; how is it in play?

[Bears With Lasers]

Chameleon builds are usually (but not always) a little weak getting started; they get better the more Chameleon levels they get. Once they hit Chameleon 7, that's a very dramatic increase in power.

[Aximili]

Bears, why do you say that?

[Bears With Lasers]

Because you get the +4 ability score boost, to two abilities due to your double focus, as well as the double focus itself. Suddenly you can get +4 STR, +4 attack/damage, and +4 WIS/divine casting, say.

[Roland St. Jude]

It's available for free here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1).

[Jacob Orlove]

One fun way to enter the class is using a Cleric with the Trickery Domain to get the requisite skills. This has several advantages:
1) actual turning attempts let you use Divine Metamagic if you want
2) actual caster levels let you use your floating feat on item crafting feats during your downtime (your chameleon levels don't count for stuff like feat prereqs)
3) you get a second domain for extra goodness, plus cleric spellcasting

Taking it for all five pre-Chameleon levels isn't bad (you do get 3rd level spells, after all), but 3 levels plus two levels of a full-BAB class might fit your plans better.

[MrNexx]

Warlock makes for a nice Chameleon entry point, as well. The Floating Feat of 2nd level Chameleon lets you choose Extra Invocation to suit the needs of the day, or Item Crafting feats to take advantage of your Warlock or Chameleon abilities, as you choose. A Warlock 12/Chamelon 8 doesn't get the greatest benefits of either class, but is VERY flexibile, can make anything, and can cast a wide variety of spells to cover their other weak points.

The required skills are all class skills for a Warlock, so the transition is pretty easy. I'd suggest getting to Warlock 6 before Chameleon 2; that bonus Invocation will simply be your nice "fill in" whenever you can't think of anything better to do on a given day.

[Fizban]

Mr. Nexx, you just made me fall in love with that idea.

You could also use the floating feat to gain an extra spell known feat for a sorcerer/other spontaneous caster, and change that every day. I'd think of it this way: would you sacrifice 2 levels of casting for such an ability from a PrC? If yes, take the dip, if no then you don't care anyway.

I'm not exactly sure how extra spell works with wizards, but I could see a chameleon using the floating feat to gain an arcane spell he doesn't have in his spellbook for the day.

Point: it says you can't use your aptitude focus to qualify for feats/PrC's/"other options", but it says nothing about scrolls/wands/staffs. Plus since your CL is double your class level, you won't be all that bad with a staff, and could actually have a higher CL than the primary casters for a couple levels.

Dang, now I really, really want to play a chameleon.

[Bears With Lasers]

Extra Spell + Chameleon = the Chameleon can get a spell with Extra Spell, then write it into his book so it's there even when he switches the feat out. That way, a Chameleon can get, well, all spells.

[SpiderBrigade]

My take on the chameleon is that it's very slightly underpowered in the short-term, but potentially incredibly strong long-term. It also requires some careful thought on multiclassing. Flavorwise, I think they want it to be mostly for rogues and bards, or other versatility-focused types...but it's actually stronger if you focus on one particular niche, where flexibility can help. To wit, the Extra Spell technique BWL mentioned, or the Warlock "I can craft ANY MAGIC ITEM" trick (although that only needs a 2-level dip in Chameleon, anyway.)

On a tangent: Bears, considering that a wizard can usually supplement his spells known through scrolls, do you think the 2-level hit for Chameleon is worth it for him? Or is that a trick for a chameleon with a different focus?

[The_Snark]

Binder strikes me as an interesting class to add to the Chameleon. They both have the same focus, namely versatility, and the floating feats solve the Binder's problem of not being able to pick feats that fit all of its roles. It seems like a pretty potent combo to me; bind the vestiges that suit today's focus best and enjoy.

Too bad binders lack Disguise as a class skill, otherwise it'd be perfect. A short multiclass to rogue ought to solve that, though.

[SpiderBrigade]

The_Snark, I think that build would be John Constantine.

[cupkeyk]

Both Beguiler and Dread Necromancer have Bluff and Disguise as class skills and both woudl benefit from taking up levels in Chameleon.

[Tibor]

I like Duskblade 13/chameleon 7. It gives Duskblade access to all those spells that would have made it a power class (ie Wraith Strike and Combust), not to mention the ability to help out that MAD that comes with a melee/casting class. Full attack with a channelled combust on each hit while power attacking for everything with wraithstrike is just plain mean.

[Yuki Akuma]

I like using bard to enter the chameleon PrC, but then, I like the 'pretending to be other classes' shtick, and the only way to get bard abilities is to... be a bard.

Plus, you can use your bard levels to qualify for item creation feats, so you can make... any magic item, really. But not as easily as the warlock, I must admit...

You do have to take at least eight levels of bard to do this, though. Which might not be everyone's idea of a good build.

[Tibor]

A changling bard/chameleon would be very interesting. *shudders at the bluff check*

[hewhosaysfish]

I've never quite got the fluff of the Chameleon: "I was trained in both how to fight and how to use magic.. but... um... I can't remember how to do both at the same time. If I stop and think back to my sword training at Mimic Mansion I forget everything about spells."

Yes, it's an interesting mechanical idea (quite cool), I just don't see how it makes sense in character.

[Yuki Akuma]

No. She wasn't trained in the use of weapons or magic. She was trained in how to make herself think she knows how to use weapons or magic.

It makes more sense if you imagine her as a Planescape or Discworld character. Or a Mage character. Consensus reality and all that.

[Jack_Simth]

Point: it says you can't use your aptitude focus to qualify for feats/PrC's/"other options", but it says nothing about scrolls/wands/staffs.
Generally, when people mention that, they mean you need to meet the pre-requisities for the item creation feat without invoking your aptitude focus; to get an item crafting feat from your bonus feat, you need an actual caster level. The Trickery Cleric-5/Chameleon-10 with Practiced Spellcaster can make basically anything other than rings and staves (and things needing a spell of 7th level or higher requires a caster level of 12, which the Trickery Cleric doesn't have).

Plus since your CL is double your class level, you won't be all that bad with a staff, and could actually have a higher CL than the primary casters for a couple levels.If you enter the Chameleon PrC as soon as possible, you'll match a primary caster's caster level at level 10, beat it until 19th, and match again at 20th (for the Rogue-5/Chameleon-10/Whatever-5).

[Noneoyabizzness]

the chameleon is at best fluffwise close to the 2e bard kit "charlatan" (complete bards handbook was the smiffins back then) the idea is it can beign someone else so well that it is actually capable of doing it.

bard is a great way to qualify, but gotta admit dread necro and warlock seem to catch My eye right now. as stated on another thread, if you want skill tricks for some odd reason, going cham 8 then 3 levels of uncanny trickster... unless you are in a campaign that can lead into epicness, it offers more than you'd lose

[Person_Man]

Having seen it used to devastating results, I'm a fan of the Cleric/Monk/Chameleon. Pump and buff your Wis. Pick up Zen Archery. Enjoy freakishly high To-Hit bonus, AC, and Stunning Fist/Freezing the Lifeblood save DC.

You could also combine it with Warshaper quite well. Turn into something with lots of natural attacks and reasonably high stats, gain +4 Str and Con and +1 size damage on your natural attacks from Warshaper, then take Combat Focus and boost your Str or Con with Ability Boon, then use Mimic class feature to Rage. Some mixture of Warshaper with Wildshape Ranger, Human Paragon, Swashbuckler, and/or Changeling would probably work well.

Maybe Wildshape Ranger 5/Swash 3/Warshaper 3/Chameleon X, and then Wildshape into a deinonychus.

[Fax Celestis]

Rogue 5/Chameleon 7/Assassin 8 would be my choice.

[Bears With Lasers]

Having seen it used to devastating results, I'm a fan of the Cleric/Monk/Chameleon. Pump and buff your Wis. Pick up Zen Archery. Enjoy freakishly high To-Hit bonus, AC, and Stunning Fist/Freezing the Lifeblood save DC.

Heh. I once took that a step further and played a Rogue 1/Monk 2/Soulknife 2/Soulbow 1/Chameleon 7.

Freakishly high Wisdom to AB, AC, damage, Freezing the Lifeblood DC, Chameleon divine casting... woo woo.

[Person_Man]

Heh. I once took that a step further and played a Rogue 1/Monk 2/Soulknife 2/Soulbow 1/Chameleon 7.

Freakishly high Wisdom to AB, AC, damage, Freezing the Lifeblood DC, Chameleon divine casting... woo woo.

Ooohh, Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), hadn't thought of that. Wisdom bonus to everything, with Cleric buff and Chameleon Ability Boon to Wisdom. Nice build.

But why the Rogue level? I would think that a level of Monk, Soulknife, or Fighter would be better.

If you needed the Rogue level for the Skill entry requirement into Chameleon, putting it at your first level wouldn't get you there (since your max Skill rank at 1st level for Bluff and Disguise would be 4). Unless I'm mis-reading how Able Learner works.

[Fax Celestis]

I correct myself: Rogue 5/Chameleon 7/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 7, boosting Assassin spells with the AT.

[Bears With Lasers]

I wanted to have trapfinding, just so I could do pretty much everything.

Edit: and casting Owl's Insight (SpC) with a high caster level and a Bead of Karma was fun.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I thought about making an NPC that was basically just a rogue or bard/chameleon changeling that attacked the party at least once a day in a new disguise and specialization. One day it's a cleric, the next it's a barbarian, the next it's an assassin and so on. I love screwing with PC's that way.

[Fax Celestis]

I thought about making an NPC that was basically just a rogue or bard/chameleon changeling that attacked the party at least once a day in a new disguise and specialization. One day it's a cleric, the next it's a barbarian, the next it's an assassin and so on. I love screwing with PC's that way.

Oooh! Bard/Mountebank/Master of Masks/Chameleon would make a great villain, if you have Complete Scoundrel.

[Ramza00]

One fun way to enter the class is using a Cleric with the Trickery Domain to get the requisite skills. This has several advantages:
1) actual turning attempts let you use Divine Metamagic if you want

I agree and it works so well with the flavor.

[Ramza00]

I've never quite got the fluff of the Chameleon: "I was trained in both how to fight and how to use magic.. but... um... I can't remember how to do both at the same time. If I stop and think back to my sword training at Mimic Mansion I forget everything about spells."

Yes, it's an interesting mechanical idea (quite cool), I just don't see how it makes sense in character.
Imagine something like a face dancer in dune. Or a doppleganger in most fantasy novels.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Oooh! Bard/Mountebank/Master of Masks/Chameleon would make a great villain, if you have Complete Scoundrel.
I am digging on this. Thank you.:smallamused:

[Fax Celestis]

I am digging on this. Thank you.:smallamused:

I'll probably end up using it too. Of course, mine'll be a fey version for the fey game I plan on running.

[Person_Man]

I'll probably end up using it too. Of course, mine'll be a fey version for the fey game I plan on running.

Hmmm, maybe the Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a) will finally be useful for something. All he'll need is a Dimensional Shackles.

Suck it Nymphs!

[Fax Celestis]

Hmmm, maybe the Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a) will finally be useful for something. All he'll need is a Dimensional Shackles.

Suck it Nymphs!

Actually, I'm using toned-down pixies, petals, and thorns (both in the MM-II) as the playable character races.