Half-dragon template savage progression question

[Spacehamster]

I have a question about how the 3 "level" step of the progression
version of the template, First you take 1 level of whatever class you want
after that you could if you want take all 3 "levels" to complete the template
and after that you are fully free to level the remaining 19 levels? Have I understood
how savage progression works correctly? Ofc would not be ideal to take all 3 in a row
especially after 1st level since your hp would be ridiculous. :)

[Pluto!]

With the Savage Progression templates, you start building a character as normal. That could mean 1 level before taking template levels, it could mean 20 levels before taking template levels. The important thing is that you go into them with at least 1 Hit Die. Once you start taking levels in the template class, they more or less work like normal classes, so you can freely multiclass in or out of them at your leisure, so you could take the first 3 levels all at once, or could intersperse them with other classes should you want to.

The Savage Progression series is actually pretty easy, since it works like a normal class in most ways except HD. The confusing part is its similarity to the Savage Species book's monster classes, which are similar, but much more rigid in certain ways.

[Spacehamster]

With the Savage Progression templates, you start building a character as normal. That could mean 1 level before taking template levels, it could mean 20 levels before taking template levels. Once you start taking levels in the template class, they more or less work like normal classes, so you can freely multiclass in or out of them at your leisure, so you could take the first 3 levels all at once, or could intersperse them with other classes should you want to.

The Savage Progression series is actually pretty easy, since it works like a normal class in most ways except HD. The confusing part is its similarity to the Savage Species book's monster classes, which are similar, but much more rigid in certain ways.

But every "level" I take in it is not really a level it just symbolizes buying off the +3LA of the template right?

[Pluto!]

But every "level" I take in it is not really a level it just symbolizes buying off the +3LA of the template right?
Each level adds 1 LA, which is kind of the opposite of what people usually mean by (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) "buying off LA."

Have you seen the Template class rules page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a)? The classes work essentially the same way as normal acquired templates, except you can ease into them in a level-by-level basis: each level, instead of HD, assigns benefits along with +1LA, which does increase your Effective Character Level for calculations like experience per encounter or experience required to level up.

[Spacehamster]

Each level adds 1 LA, which is kind of the opposite of what people usually mean by (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) "buying off LA."

Have you seen the Template class rules page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a)? The classes work essentially the same way as normal acquired templates, except you can ease into them in a level-by-level basis: each level, instead of HD, assigns benefits along with +1LA, which does increase your Effective Character Level for calculations like experience per encounter or experience required to level up.

read it now, lets see if I get this straight. I start as a level 1 fighter for example, gain enough xp for a level in the template, making me count as level 2 cause of the
+1LA from its 1st level. Then I can take 3 class levels and buy off the +1LA? Then rince and repeat until you got it all and have bought off all the LA? But the
thing Im not a 100% about is if the 3 template levels counts as actual levels after you buy off the LA? As in you could only have 17 class levels if you do it this way?

[Darrin]

No. The template classes basically take the LA and split it into class levels. Half-Dragon is LA +3, so you break it into three class levels. Drow is LA +2, so we break them down into a weaker version that's LA +0, and they can take two class levels to get everything that would bump them up to LA +2.

You seem to be confusing the Savage Progression levels with LA Buyoff, but the two aren't compatable. The Savage Progression levels are an alternative to LA Buyoff that gives you more flexibility over when you level up.

[Spacehamster]

No. The template classes basically take the LA and split it into class levels. Half-Dragon is LA +3, so you break it into three class levels. Drow is LA +2, so we break them down into a weaker version that's LA +0, and they can take two class levels to get everything that would bump them up to LA +2.

You seem to be confusing the Savage Progression levels with LA Buyoff, but the two aren't compatable. The Savage Progression levels are an alternative to LA Buyoff that gives you more flexibility over when you level up.

Ah ok so both of them have their pro´s and con´s then. Take template from start and use LA buyoff progresses you slower but in the end you end up with
20 class levels. While the savage progression ends you up with 17 class levels and the 3 template levels?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No. The template classes basically take the LA and split it into class levels. Half-Dragon is LA +3, so you break it into three class levels. Drow is LA +2, so we break them down into a weaker version that's LA +0, and they can take two class levels to get everything that would bump them up to LA +2.

You seem to be confusing the Savage Progression levels with LA Buyoff, but the two aren't compatable. The Savage Progression levels are an alternative to LA Buyoff that gives you more flexibility over when you level up.

Not exactly. Each level of the Savage Progression template classes counts as a point of level adjustment. This means you can still buy it off per the UA rules. The rules on buying off LA are written under the assumption that you're beginning play with all your LA prior to your first class level, it doesn't take acquired templates or other sources of level adjustment gained during play into consideration. If a character gains the Saint template (LA +2, impossible to gain prior to 6th level), under the written LA buyoff rules his class levels are already at least three times his LA and he could immediately reduce it by one. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that your number of class levels gained after the LA was added must be at least three times the LA to reduce it by one.

So at Fighter 1/ Half-Dragon 1/ Fighter +3 you can reduce your LA by one and still retain the benefits of Half-Dragon 1. Your next level can be the second level of Half-Dragon, then after gaining three more Fighter levels you can reduce your LA by one again. You can do the same for the third level of Half-Dragon, and at Fighter 10 (or any ten class levels) you can reduce your LA by one again. You'll end up paying 4,000 xp the first time, 7,000 xp the second time, and 10,000 xp the third time you reduce your LA, but this will put you lower than the rest of the party so you'll get more xp per encounter and should catch back up.

This makes templates like these actually playable, particularly for characters starting below the level necessary to begin play with the entire template.

[Spacehamster]

Not exactly. Each level of the Savage Progression template classes counts as a point of level adjustment. This means you can still buy it off per the UA rules. The rules on buying off LA are written under the assumption that you're beginning play with all your LA prior to your first class level, it doesn't take acquired templates or other sources of level adjustment gained during play into consideration. If a character gains the Saint template (LA +2, impossible to gain prior to 6th level), under the written LA buyoff rules his class levels are already at least three times his LA and he could immediately reduce it by one. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that your number of class levels gained after the LA was added must be at least three times the LA to reduce it by one.

So at Fighter 1/ Half-Dragon 1/ Fighter +3 you can reduce your LA by one and still retain the benefits of Half-Dragon 1. Your next level can be the second level of Half-Dragon, then after gaining three more Fighter levels you can reduce your LA by one again. You can do the same for the third level of Half-Dragon, and at Fighter 10 (or any ten class levels) you can reduce your LA by one again. You'll end up paying 4,000 xp the first time, 7,000 xp the second time, and 10,000 xp the third time you reduce your LA, but this will put you lower than the rest of the party so you'll get more xp per encounter and should catch back up.

This makes templates like these actually playable, particularly for characters starting below the level necessary to begin play with the entire template.

Ok thanks very much and one more thing when you reach 1 fig, 1 half dragon,3 fig and can pay off 4k xp to remove 1LA does that then make you effectively
not reach fig 4 but be 4k xp from leveling to fig 4? Or do you level like normal and just miss out on 4k gained by party when you continue?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ok thanks very much and one more thing when you reach 1 fig, 1 half dragon,3 fig and can pay off 4k xp to remove 1LA does that then make you effectively
not reach fig 4 but be 4k xp from leveling to fig 4? Or do you level like normal and just miss out on 4k gained by party when you continue?

You hit Fighter 4 at 10,000 xp, because that +1 LA makes you need the xp of a 5th level character to hit Fighter 4.

When you pay 4,000 xp, you no longer have that +1 LA so you need the xp of a 4th level character to be a Fighter 4.

[Spacehamster]

You hit Fighter 4 at 10,000 xp, because that +1 LA makes you need the xp of a 5th level character to hit Fighter 4.

When you pay 4,000 xp, you no longer have that +1 LA so you need the xp of a 4th level character to be a Fighter 4.

Ah cool now I get it, the way its made exactly sets you back to the amount needed to gain that level without the LA. :) Tywm.