Breaking 3.5 Sorcerer/Spelltheif/Wizard/Ultimate Magus

[Triskavanski]

Here is something I'm wondering If I can do it.

Basically, level 1, take spell thief.

Levels 2-5 take 3 wizard levels, 1 sorcerer level.

Level 6 go ultimate magus and take Master Spellthief, using UM to boost Wizard/Sorc

At level 10, would I be at caster level 10 for Sorc/Wizard?


I'm planning on taking improved counterspell and Dampen Spell in order to get to the point I can close off enemies trying to cast their own spells against my party and I, but I need spell slots. Sorcerer has the spell slots, but not the spells known. Wizard has the spells known but not the slots.

I'm limited to PHB, PHB II, Complete Series, DMG, DMG II, and Monster manual 1-5.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You have PHB2 available, so use Beguiler instead of Sorcerer. That way you'll only need Int for all your spellcasting.

Master Spellthief totals your spellcaster levels (i.e. the effective level in a class that determines spells/day and highest level spells you have access to) to determine your caster levels (i.e. the level that determines an individual spells effectiveness) in each class.

A Beguiler 1/ Spellthief 1/ Wizard 3/ UM 10 with Master Spellthief will cast spells as a Beguiler 8 and as a Wizard 13. These are your spellcaster levels.

You can add your own effects in the most beneficial order, so apply Master Spellthief first and then add on the Arcane Spell Power bonus from UM afterward.

At Beguiler 1/ Spellthief 1/ Wizard 3/ UM 10, Master Spellthief will set your caster level in each class to 8+13+1=22, and then Arcane Spell Power will increase this to 26 for each class.

If you can get access to feats from other books, Able Learner in Races of Destiny is highly recommended, and Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon allows you to spend two spontaneous spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know, including Wizard spells you've learned, of one level higher.

[Triskavanski]

Sadly, I can't get versatile but the DM pretty much gave able learner for free to everyone.

So, I'd have the spells per day of a 13th level wizard, Though my ability to overcome spell caster checks is impressively high.

Awesome. I'll begin working up the first character sheet then.


As the game is projected to go into epic levels, should I take leadership to gain followers for learning the epic spells?

Another thing, If I have Dispell Magic prepared with quicken, Can I counter spell things without having to ready an action?

Lastly, If I took Obtain Familiar, what level would the familiar be?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sadly, I can't get versatile but the DM pretty much gave able learner for free to everyone.

So, I'd have the spells per day of a 13th level wizard, Though my ability to overcome spell caster checks is impressively high.

Awesome. I'll begin working up the first character sheet then.

Caster Level also determines the range, duration, damage, etc. of your spells, not just checks to overcome SR.


As the game is projected to go into epic levels, should I take leadership to gain followers for learning the epic spells?

Another thing, If I have Dispell Magic prepared with quicken, Can I counter spell things without having to ready an action?

Lastly, If I took Obtain Familiar, what level would the familiar be?

Simulacrum, Planar Binding, Gate, etc. are all suitable substitutes for Leadership. But it's still extremely useful to have regardless.

No, you still need to ready an action to counterspell. If you're good-aligned you can dip a single level of Sacred Exorcist and take the feat Divine Defiance from Fiendish Codex II. That allows you to counterspell as an immediate action if you spend a turn/rebuke attempt, using the spell as normal regardless of its casting time. So you don't even need to use Quicken Spell with that.

Obtain Familiar counts your class levels in every spellcasting class and every prestige class that advances spellcasting, so you would just count your character level for its benefits.

[BloodyMartian]

Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example, a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief. Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells. The character described above would have a caster level of 8th for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells. In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield.

When I read this I don't understand how you come to 8+13+1=22.
Beguiler 1/ Spellthief 1/ Wizard 3/ UM 10
Beg. CL = 1 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 15
SpT. CL = 1 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 15
Wiz. CL = 3 + 1 + 1 + 10 = 15

It says it stacks levels in arcane casting classes not Caster Levels for determining Caster Level. You don't have 13 levels of Wizard and 8 levels of Beguiler only the CL and spells of a person with those levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example, a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief. Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells. The character described above would have a caster level of 8th for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells. In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield.

When I read this I don't understand how you come to 8+13+1=22.
Beguiler 1/ Spellthief 1/ Wizard 3/ UM 10
Beg. CL = 1 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 15
SpT. CL = 1 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 15
Wiz. CL = 3 + 1 + 1 + 10 = 15

It says it stacks levels in arcane casting classes not Caster Levels for determining Caster Level. You don't have 13 levels of Wizard and 8 levels of Beguiler only the CL and spells of a person with those levels.

It counts Beguiler 1 + Spellthief 1 + Wizard 3 and none of UM for determining the level of spells you can steal. That portion of the feat's effect specifies class levels.
It counts arcane spellcaster levels (i.e. the level which determines your spells/day and highest level spells available) for determining your caster level for arcane spells. UM increases your spellcaster level in both classes, you're effectively a Beguiler 8 and Wizard 13 for purposes of spellcasting, so this is the level that gets counted.

[Triskavanski]

If I did reach the full spells perday for wizard do I not progress anymore in caster level then?

[BloodyMartian]

I guess my hang up is the bit where it defines what arcane spellcaster levels are ("that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief") in the first sentence and then in the 3rd sentence saying arcane spellcaster levels also stack indicating that it is referencing the same term from before.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If I did reach the full spells perday for wizard do I not progress anymore in caster level then?

There's no upper limit to your caster level, that is the level that determines the range and per-caster-level effects of the spells. After Wizard 20 you don't get any additional spells/day, but a Wizard 40 still has a caster level of 40th.

[Triskavanski]

Ah I see.. huh.

However once I get to the spells per day of a 20th level wizard there isn't any real reason for me to keep doing that, and leveling up beguiler more would probally be better. So by this stage.. around level 22-25 I switch to get the other class list a chance?

I noticed I qualify for abjert champion from complete mage. What about qualifying for one of the other martial/magic classes?

[Triskavanski]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=947289

There is my character at the moment.

I can wear up to light armor, and I've got a few weapons I can use, though I'm probably going to stick with more standard mage based stuff.

2 levels of Geometer allows me to put 1000 spells into my blessed spellbook.