How does sphere of annihilation work in Tomb of Horrors

[ahenobarbi]

I never played ToH but I read about it quite a bit on this forums. So how does Sphere of Annihilation (apparently waiting at entrance to the tomb) doesn't end up being abused by PCs?

It could kill (more permanently than usual killing in D&D) one PC but does anything stop other PCs from taking the artifact?

[atemu1234]

I never played ToH but I read about it quite a bit on this forums. So how does Sphere of Annihilation (apparently waiting at entrance to the tomb) doesn't end up being abused by PCs?

It could kill (more permanently than usual killing in D&D) one PC but does anything stop other PCs from taking the artifact?

According to the description given in the DM's Guide, it cannot be moved except through exceptional willpower; odds are most PCs don't have that so they cannot take it. The adventure is more of a TPK because of notoriously advantaged enemies and traps, not to mention tons of shmuck bait.

[sideswipe]

when i played, the party wanted to just walk through that door... i said NO! its a trap. i put a lantern on a 10' pole to see if it was magical darkness, it did not illuminate it. i pulled it back and had an 8 1/2 ft pole.

[ahenobarbi]

According to the description given in the DM's Guide, it cannot be moved except through exceptional willpower; odds are most PCs don't have that so they cannot take it. The adventure is more of a TPK because of notoriously advantaged enemies and traps, not to mention tons of shmuck bait.

The check seem to be easy enough... DC 30 level + int + 1d20 (and no penalty for failure so you can take 20).

[BWR]

The check seem to be easy enough... DC 30 level + int + 1d20 (and no penalty for failure so you can take 20).

You're thinking 3.x, not 1e. Also, it says "a (fixed) sphere of annihilation",

[Hand_of_Vecna]

The check seem to be easy enough... DC 30 level + int + 1d20 (and no penalty for failure so you can take 20).

There is a penalty "Orb moves 10 feet towrd the person trying to control it" pretty sure 19 of those would ruin your day pretty hard.


I made a "One does not simply" on meme generator for this, but the photo didn't post.

[Grommen]

I never played ToH but I read about it quite a bit on this forums. So how does Sphere of Annihilation (apparently waiting at entrance to the tomb) doesn't end up being abused by PCs?

It could kill (more permanently than usual killing in D&D) one PC but does anything stop other PCs from taking the artifact?

It's not where you think it is, so you can go around it.

It does not move, least not this one. And even if you could, under 1st edition rules one does not take 20.

The hole Tomb is a giant death trap. That has kinda been the running joke. You will die, it is heavy handed, and it is full of gotcha traps.

It's great!

[ahenobarbi]

You're thinking 3.x, not 1e. Also, it says "a (fixed) sphere of annihilation",

Wasn't it converted to 3.x? Does the sphere being "fixed" means it can't be moved?


There is a penalty "Orb moves 10 feet towrd the person trying to control it" pretty sure 19 of those would ruin your day pretty hard.


I made a "One does not simply" on meme generator for this, but the photo didn't post.

I'm pretty sure you can walk 10 ft away from it if you fail.


It's not where you think it is, so you can go around it.

It does not move, least not this one. And even if you could, under 1st edition rules one does not take 20.

The hole Tomb is a giant death trap. That has kinda been the running joke. You will die, it is heavy handed, and it is full of gotcha traps.

It's great!

But you can roll until you get 20 in 1e, right?

[weckar]

Even if you could mentally control it, anything else you meet could probably do it better.
I think we don't even need to mention why you couldn't move it physically.

[ahenobarbi]

Even if you could mentally control it, anything else you meet could probably do it better.
I think we don't even need to mention why you couldn't move it physically.

Good point about something else taking control of the sphere away from your PC (though if I could get an artifact without getting into the tomb I'd probably take it and walk away).

[Alex12]

Heh. There's an idea for a character hunting for the Tomb. An entropomancer 10 who doesn't actually care about the treasures in it, he just wants to get his hands on the Sphere.

And if you want to be a real jerk about it, make the sphere into an Umbral Blot, which is why it can't be moved.

[KillianHawkeye]

(though if I could get an artifact without getting into the tomb I'd probably take it and walk away).

But you DO have to get into the tomb. The sphere isn't at the entrance, it's at the end of the first area. There are plenty of things that can kill you before you get to it. Heck, just choosing the right way to go inside has a ridiculous 2-in-3 chance of being certain death. :smallamused:

[Chernobyl]

Also, it says "a (fixed) sphere of annihilation",
Correct. The specific text says:
The mouth opening is similar to a sphere of annihilation, but this sphere is permanently fixed in place and yawns a little more than 3 feet in diameter—room enough to accommodate those who, pursuing a false hope, leap in where they are completely and forever destroyed. The whole area radiates evil and magic (necromancy; CL 20th) if a detection attempt is made.

That's Gary Gygax for you. It seems like he was fond of making "special" rules for things, to prevent his players from undoing his 'Gordian knot' dungeons. After all, if a character did take control of that particular SoA, he could use it to basically tunnel through the dungeon and short-cut all the traps.

I'm running a modified version of ToH right now in my Pathfinder campaign (see my earlier post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?359442-Remedies-for-a-Sphere-of-Annihilation)), and one of the players did indeed attempt to move it. When he couldn't, he got frustrated and complained that I'm not following the rules.

Regards,
Chernobyl

[ahenobarbi]

Correct. The specific text says:
The mouth opening is similar to a sphere of annihilation, but this sphere is permanently fixed in place and yawns a little more than 3 feet in diameter—room enough to accommodate those who, pursuing a false hope, leap in where they are completely and forever destroyed. The whole area radiates evil and magic (necromancy; CL 20th) if a detection attempt is made.

That's Gary Gygax for you. It seems like he was fond of making "special" rules for things, to prevent his players from undoing his 'Gordian knot' dungeons. After all, if a character did take control of that particular SoA, he could use it to basically tunnel through the dungeon and short-cut all the traps.

... seems "a little" railroady.

[weckar]

When it comes to railroad gaming, Gygax was chief conductor.

You could still dig up the whole place, though. The place is oddly badly protected from above.

[Doc_Maynot]

When it comes to railroad gaming, Gygax was chief conductor.

You could still dig up the whole place, though. The place is oddly badly protected from above.

Wouldn't the demons that clean up and maintain the place get a bit irked though?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'm pretty sure you can walk 10 ft away from it if you fail.

Doesn't matter there is a penalty.

"When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20."

[Chernobyl]

Wouldn't the demons that clean up and maintain the place get a bit irked though?

Once you kill the demilich, you kind of take away their raison d'être.

Tomb of Horrors is a party-killing railroad machine. I honestly could not in good conscience run my players through it without modifying that stupid poem. Gary deliberately made it inscrutable and unhelpful. Even after reading the whole module, I still couldn't figure out some of the so-called "clues" in there.

Here's my version of the riddle:


ACERERAK CONGRATULATES YOU ON YOUR POWERS OF OBSERVATION. SO MAKE OF THIS WHATEVER YOU WISH, FOR YOU WILL BE MINE IN THE END NO MATTER WHAT!
Silver to silver, and gold to gold! If you seek my bones then do what you’re told.
Go through the arch and not the mist and the second great hall you’ll discover. Shun blue if you can, but follow the black only if you seek great valor.
Seek out the cypher and ignore advice that only leads you astray. You need sacrifice aught but a loop of magic metal to be well along your way.
One of three doors along the way will lead to a fortuitous fall. Don’t be fooled and stay on track. The right path is through the wall.
Search the murky deep and avoid the cube to find the important keys. Then go past the spikes and through the wall, but do not touch the seas.
Behind the false you’ll find the true and then into the columned hall, where you’ll find the throne that’s key and keyed, and the crown that reveals all.
The iron men of visage grim do more than meet the eye. You’ve left and left and found my Tomb and now your soul will die.

[weckar]

Doesn't matter there is a penalty.

"When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20."Easy ruling here, if the player insists:
"You will have to back up about a total of 100ft or so.... Where were those pit traps again?"