One of my players have 70 strength?

[Kimras]

everything he did was legal in the game I'm just wondering how strong is he likewhat can he punch though at max and how much weight can he lift max?

[Oddman80]

Light load
136,192 lbs

Medium load
272,384 lbs

Max load / Over head
409,600 lbs

Able to lift off ground
819,200 lbs

Push / Drag
2,048,000 lbs

How exactly was it game legal? Cancer Mage/Festering Anger shenanigans?

[Phelix-Mu]

There is a table in the PHB/SRD for max lift amounts and encumbrance.

70 is pretty outrageous. It's getting to the point where his Strength is breaking irl physics: his bones should long ago have exploded under the pressure exerted by his muscular contractions. Since this is a game about heroic characters breaking limits of normalcy, I'd suggest that headbutting through brick walls and such are too mild. Ever seen Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star?

By mechanics, he can punch down ogres and even tougher without a weapon. I'd suggest that such creatures that automatically die not just die when this character is dealing lethal damage; 70s is good area for red mist, exploding torsos, and such with barely a touch.

I don't have the table at my fingertips, but I assume he can probably also lift cars with one hand, beat Great Wyrm Dragons at arm-wrestling, kick down the castle portcullis, and the like.

[Necroticplague]

70 STR is a +30 modifier. So without rolling, he automatically makes the STR check to break pretty much all substances that aren't fortifications (in SRD, only break DC above 30 are DC 35 one-foot thick masonry walls, and DC 50 three-feet of hewn stone, both of which he can make with good rolls). No mundane form of bondage can hold him, due to the break DC of such all falling under what he automatically breaks. Given a two-handed weapon, he automatically does 45 damage on a hit, and is fairly accurate. He can probably carry the rest of the party, piggy-back style. At once. While sprinting. With a small cottage tied to each ankle.

[Seclora]

Roughly? He can punch through steel, mithral, and even work his way through adamantine given a few rounds. Sporting a +30 modifier, a single blow can kill about 90% of all humanoids, even with non-lethal rules. His carry capacity is over 400 tons, or roughly an average train(not the engine mind you, the entire train, fully loaded).


70 STR is a +30 modifier. So without rolling, he automatically makes the STR check to break pretty much all substances that aren't fortifications (in SRD, only break DC above 30 are DC 35 one-foot thick masonry walls, and DC 50 three-feet of hewn stone, both of which he can make with good rolls). No mundane form of bondage can hold him, due to the break DC of such all falling under what he automatically breaks. Given a two-handed weapon, he automatically does 45 damage on a hit, and is fairly accurate. He can probably carry the rest of the party, piggy-back style. At once. While sprinting. With a small cottage tied to each ankle.
And let's not forget that with a +30 to hit, you can pretty much power attack everything. So that's an extra 30-40 damage on top of it all.
Worked great with Combat Reflexes, kill just about anything for being within reach. :smallbiggrin:


I did the piggy back part too, and it was a seven person party, with cohorts and a Beastmaster.

[Oddman80]

Interesting... I don't think this guy would benefit from shock trooper... Even w/ full power attack at lvl 20, He's got a +30 to hit.

This guy could lift the statue of liberty (225 tons) over his head!!!

[Seclora]

Interesting... I don't think this guy would benefit from shock trooper... Even w/ full power attack at lvl 20, He's got a +30 to hit.

This guy could lift the statue of liberty (225 tons) over his head!!!

Actually, that'd qualify as a medium load, he could probably -fly- with it.

[eggynack]

Interesting... I don't think this guy would benefit from shock trooper... Even w/ full power attack at lvl 20, He's got a +30 to hit.
You can get AC high enough to give that a downside pretty easily. I mean, basic druid tech, you go legendary eagle for dire tortoise for 25 AC, pop on greater luminous armor for an effective 37 AC against melee attacks, and there ya go. That's not even touching other spells, or even a monk's belt. Hell, you can even set up something like the tarrasque against him, and you're losing a decent amount of to-hit. Also, pit fiends have 40 AC, so there's another one. I could probably do better with some real effort.

[Segev]

I am curious: how did he achieve this Strength score?

[Necroticplague]

I am curious: how did he achieve this Strength score?

My money's on template stacking. First guess would be a half-Minotaur feral lolth-touched stony water orc,
Who then took levels in warhulk. For la+4, that's a +28. Start with a base 18, then boosts it with a +6 magic item. That a solid 52. Take 9 levels of warhulk for +18. Hefty bit of investment, but easily doable. This isn't counting another possible level of warhulk, abusing bloodlines or legacy champion for more than 10 levels of warhulk,+STR manual, bonuses other than racial or enhancement, or even more template stacking. Would make him as bright as a sack of rocks of he went this route, though.

[Captnq]

I suspect you are ignoring stacking rules.

[icefractal]

My money's on template stacking. ...Or just spells. Giant Size gets you +32 by itself, for example. Combine it with Draconic Polymorph for another +8, a Belt for another +6, and Animal Devotion for another +8, and your base polymorph form only needs to have Strength 26.

Maintaining that all day is a bit more work. I'd be curious what the most non-arbitrary Strength you can have all day while looking human is.

[Necroticplague]

I suspect you are ignoring stacking rules.

The stacking rules aren't applicable here, because all the things are just add-ones to the base, and none of the template prerequisites are incompatible. Each template is a different source, with no type (except for item, which is enhancement). The templates require, in order that I showed them, (giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid) with no type change, (humanoid or monstrous humanoid) change to monstrous humanoid, none with no change, corporeal non-undead/construct/elemental adding earth subtype, all being added to a base race that is a corporeal humanoid. The first template turns them large, allowing them to qualify for Warhulk.

[Andezzar]

And let's not forget that with a +30 to hit, you can pretty much power attack everything. So that's an extra 30-40 damage on top of it all. Power Attack is limited by BAB. With 10 level so Warhulk at best you can take a -10 penalty from Power attack before epic levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Titan advanced to gargantuan size has Str 51.
A colossal Great Wyrm Red Dragon has Str 45.
The Tarrasque has Str 45, it's colossal size.
A Mountain Giant in MM2, the biggest giant which is also colossal size, has Str 43.
Kord, the deity, has Str 55, nearly all of the other warrior-type deities have Str 45.

A Lolth-Touched Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro who started with an 18, put all four of his pre-epic level-ups into it, and has a Belt of Str +6 and a Fiend of Possession cohort possessing him has Str 70. He could take ten levels of War Hulk to boost that to Str 90, but he'll only have a +5 BAB at ECL 20.

Thor has Str 92, the above character can get a Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 and be stronger than Thor.

[Spuddles]

A Titan advanced to gargantuan size has Str 51.
A colossal Great Wyrm Red Dragon has Str 45.
The Tarrasque has Str 45, it's colossal size.
A Mountain Giant in MM2, the biggest giant which is also colossal size, has Str 43.
Kord, the deity, has Str 55, nearly all of the other warrior-type deities have Str 45.

A Lolth-Touched Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro who started with an 18, put all four of his pre-epic level-ups into it, and has a Belt of Str +6 and a Fiend of Possession cohort possessing him has Str 70. He could take ten levels of War Hulk to boost that to Str 90, but he'll only have a +5 BAB at ECL 20.

Thor has Str 92, the above character can get a Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 and be stronger than Thor.

dont forget the half ogre template for an la free +4 str

[Killer Angel]

I always find funny the confusion between player and character... :smalltongue:

[CryptbornAkryea]

Can I ask what your equation for determining carry capacity with such ungodly strength scores is?

[Jasdoif]

Can I ask what your equation for determining carry capacity with such ungodly strength scores is?Per the table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm), every +10 to Strength quadruples the load limits. So a Str 70 character's load limits are four times a Str 60's, which is four times a Str 50's, which is four times a Str 40's, which is four times a Str 30's, which is four times a Str 20's; and Str 20 load limits are listed in the table.

So a Str 70's are 1024 times what's listed for Str 20.

[KillianHawkeye]

Thor has Str 92, the above character can get a Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 and be stronger than Thor.

And that's with a magic item that doubles his Strength!! Imagine if the character beats up Thor and takes it for himself! :smalleek::smalleek:


Can I ask what your equation for determining carry capacity with such ungodly strength scores is?

It's done from the table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm) from the Player's Handbook.

Tremendous Strength

For Strength scores not shown on Table: Carrying Capacity, find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same number in the "ones" digit as the creature’s Strength score does and multiply the numbers in that for by 4 for every ten points the creature’s strength is above the score for that row.

[Oddman80]

Interesting posts regarding comparative strengths of known deities.

As far as template stacking goes, if these are inherited templates, I get that by RAW they are all allowed to stack. The player needs to create a ridiculous back story about how his two incredibly rare & unique genetic freak parents met and spawned him... But it opens the door to Jealous God Syndrome made famous in both the Old Testament and Greek and Roman Mythology.

When the deities learn that one such as your players character has been conceived, the jealous deities, feeling as if they are being threatened, would set in motion plots to kill the unborn babe.
Failing that, the baby/child/adolescent's
Life would be riddled with deity driven assassination attempts. These would not be CR appropriate encounters....

[Spore]

To be honest what shenanigans a 17th level caster can pull 70 Strength is somewhat balanced honestly.

[Razanir]

So at what point does he earn divine rank 0?

[Phelix-Mu]

So at what point does he earn divine rank 0?

Maybe it's all the Exalted that I've been playing, but I pictured the character carrying the rest of his dying teammates through the Stargate portal as the local star underwent gravitational collapse into a black hole. Oh, and dragging their animal circus behind him.

Also, a shout out to the Terminationer, from the immortal Samurai Cat Goes to the Movies, one of my favorite books evah. He appears in the last chapter wielding an Aegis Cruiser with his bear hands against an army of cyborg t-rexes with laser-beam eyes.

[Necroticplague]

A Titan advanced to gargantuan size has Str 51.
A colossal Great Wyrm Red Dragon has Str 45.
The Tarrasque has Str 45, it's colossal size.
A Mountain Giant in MM2, the biggest giant which is also colossal size, has Str 43.
Kord, the deity, has Str 55, nearly all of the other warrior-type deities have Str 45.

A Lolth-Touched Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro who started with an 18, put all four of his pre-epic level-ups into it, and has a Belt of Str +6 and a Fiend of Possession cohort possessing him has Str 70. He could take ten levels of War Hulk to boost that to Str 90, but he'll only have a +5 BAB at ECL 20.

Thor has Str 92, the above character can get a Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 and be stronger than Thor.

How would that dude have the ECL to grab 10 levels of Warhulk before Epic? That appears to be LA 6(4 half-fiend, 1 half-minotaur, 1 Lolth-touched). So 5 levels to get the BaB prerequisite for Warhulk, that leaves you ECL11. Then you can take 9 levels in Warhulk. Half-dragon instead of half-goristro would shave an LA off for the same STR bonus, letting you cram in that last level of warhulk, though.


As far as template stacking goes, if these are inherited templates, I get that by RAW they are all allowed to stack. The player needs to create a ridiculous back story about how his two incredibly rare & unique genetic freak parents met and spawned him... But it opens the door to Jealous God Syndrome made famous in both the Old Testament and Greek and Roman Mythology.
Not all of them. In my original proposition, it was a 50/50 between acquired (mineral warrior, lolth-touched) and inherited (feral, half-minotaur). Admittingly, later,stronger proposition have leaned more towards inherited templates.

[Socratov]

Please tell me you have given him a small dog to accompany him on his travels, because you have pretty much built this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelix)

Which is only awesome.

[torrasque666]

How would that dude have the ECL to grab 10 levels of Warhulk before Epic? That appears to be LA 6(4 half-fiend, 1 half-minotaur, 1 Lolth-touched). So 5 levels to get the BaB prerequisite for Warhulk, that leaves you ECL11. Then you can take 9 levels in Warhulk. Half-dragon instead of half-goristro would shave an LA off for the same STR bonus, letting you cram in that last level of warhulk, though.


Not all of them. In my original proposition, it was a 50/50 between acquired (mineral warrior, lolth-touched) and inherited (feral, half-minotaur). Admittingly, later,stronger proposition have leaned more towards inherited templates.

You just answered your own question. Half-Minotaur and Half-Fiend require that they be inherited but lolth-touched does not. If using LA buyoff, he can buy off a level at 15, thus leaving enough room for that last level of Warhulk.

[Iwasforger03]

Spells: Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms + permanency can get you up to a +16 untyped str bonus without templates or LA.

[Graypairofsocks]

Thor has Str 92, the above character can get a Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 and be stronger than Thor.

Note that is because he has an artifact which doubles his strength score.

[Eldariel]

It's fairly trivial for a level 20 Cleric/Archivist/whatever (races, templates, etc. unnecessary) to go north of 100 Strength. This is without using things giving infinite Strength (such as Consumptive Field, Festering Anger or such) or templates (Tauric can get many hundred strength with like +3 LA). It's worth noting that original Pun-Pun used an arbitrarily high strength loop to get stats as high as he can; that one involved familiar & Manipulate Form. Of course, Manipulate Form can do anything so whatever.

[Iwasforger03]

is there a complete list of the ways to get ridiculous str/dex/con/int/wis/cha somewhere?

[Andezzar]

It's fairly trivial for a level 20 Cleric/Archivist/whatever (races, templates, etc. unnecessary) to go north of 100 Strength. Tell us how? I think you would get problems with stacking and/or spells per day before that.

[Kazudo]

Depending on how you take template stacking, you can easily just take Dustform Creature + Incarnate Construct a couple dozen times, gaining a bonus to STR and CHA every time.

[Eldariel]

Tell us how? I think you would get problems with stacking and/or spells per day before that.

Eh, just stack all the Strength-increasing spells, use Miracle/Anyspell/etc. to cross-list any non-Cleric spells, Shapechange/Draconic Poly into a high strength baseform and stack up all the bonuses. Giant Size and Polymorph alone can get you to like 70-80. Then you just stack all the Strength-boosting spells, Fuse Arms/Girallon Arms (and whatever else you feel like adding), Greater Holy Transformation, Greater Visage of the Deity, Divine Power, etc. There's enough typeless and different types of bonuses to do it rather effortlessly. Now, how much over 100 you can get I have no interest in finding out since that's a lot of work but if you feel like it, go through Spell Compendium, various Completes (the newer ones that aren't in Spell Comp), BoED and the usual suspects. I recall Firewine can be tossed on top of that, though with some negative side effects.

[DarkSonic1337]

is there a complete list of the ways to get ridiculous str/dex/con/int/wis/cha somewhere?

I don't know if it's complete but here's a huge list of Bonuses to Ability Scores (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13134.0)

[Iwasforger03]

I don't know if it's complete but here's a huge list of Bonuses to Ability Scores (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13134.0)

Thank you very much.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

How would that dude have the ECL to grab 10 levels of Warhulk before Epic? That appears to be LA 6(4 half-fiend, 1 half-minotaur, 1 Lolth-touched). So 5 levels to get the BaB prerequisite for Warhulk, that leaves you ECL11. Then you can take 9 levels in Warhulk. Half-dragon instead of half-goristro would shave an LA off for the same STR bonus, letting you cram in that last level of warhulk, though.

Half-Goristro gives +8 Str and a size increase for an additional +8 Str, giving you a total of +16.

I said he'd have a +5 BAB at ECL 20, not that he would finish War Hulk by 20th. He'll finish War Hulk at ECL 21 and counting the epic attack bonus he'll have a BAB of +6, but he'll never get an iterative attack.

[Andezzar]

I said he'd have a +5 BAB at ECL 20, not that he would finish War Hulk by 20th. He'll finish War Hulk at ECL 21 and counting the epic attack bonus he'll have a BAB of +6, but he'll never get an iterative attack.So the interesting feature of the latter warhulk levels is lost n the character. Better take all Warhulk levels in Epic or try to squeeze in 7+ levels of cleric for Divine Power.

[Kazudo]

War Hulk is only just good by itself. Slap it into Gestalt (or extremely overblow your pre-War Hulk abilities) and it's amazing.

A gestalt Warblade//War Hulk essentially gets double BAB per level.

[Necroticplague]

Half-Goristro gives +8 Str and a size increase for an additional +8 Str, giving you a total of +16.*facepalms self* Dang it, I looked at that table for half-minotaur, why did I forgot while looking at half-goristro?Sorry dude. Though even if you take that all at once, one of the LA could be bought off at 18, letting you cram it all in.


I said he'd have a +5 BAB at ECL 20, not that he would finish War Hulk by 20th. He'll finish War Hulk at ECL 21 and counting the epic attack bonus he'll have a BAB of +6, but he'll never get an iterative attack.Good enough point, but you mentioned taking it for 10 levels to up it to 90 in the same sentence, so it made it seem like those two were connected. Again, sorry for the misinterpretation on my end. .


So the interesting feature of the latter warhulk levels is lost on the character. Better take all Warhulk levels in Epic or try to squeeze in 7+ levels of cleric for Divine Power.

Or thank the retraining rules. As you get more Epic levels, retrain pre-epic warhulk into some other class.Just for giggles,there's a few PRCs that give +STR as a level 1 dip (most in dragon mag, though). Then, retrain your newest level into a level of Warhulk.

Also, there's Skillful weapons, which improves your BaB to 3/4 your level.

[glitterbaby]

I actually played something like this in a campaign. I was a Half-Minotaur Human. Ended at 17 and I had 70 strength, after daily buffs. We had a cleric cohort in the party so I bought Bracers of Spell Sharing and he would cast Divine Power every morning for full BAB. War-Hulk Capstone combined nicely with Spiked Chain, large size, and I even had a level or two of warblade so I could get the reach stance. Dealt approximately 1200 damage average per round to every square in a 30 ft radius on a charge with pounce. It was fun and I still had my weaknesses, oh mundanes. We had a really good DM who was able to tailor encounters to the party as a whole so I wouldn't always just end things with the flourish of my chain.

[Kazudo]

In a non-psionic game a buddy was running, we houseruled that the Half Giant's Powerful Build counted me large for EVERY time it benefitted me, including getting into PrCs and getting feats and such in exchange for its pitiful psionic ability to keep it LA +1. I did a 10xIncarnate Dustform Half Giant Werelion (Acquired. 5HD. LA +3 after everything was said and done, but he gave those for free) Barb 2/Warshaper 3/War Hulk 10. Lion gave me pounce, Barb 2 gave me Improved Grab and Trip, got the Knockback feat, etc. I only got two attacks per turn, but during that time everyone who got hit either got tripped or bullrushed, and the last guy got grabbed and raked.

I didn't move much. But when I did, stuff stopped moving. I had like a 50 STR by the end of it too.

[Elkad]

His carry capacity is over 400 tons, or roughly an average train(not the engine mind you, the entire train, fully loaded).

Completely off-topic, but you are vastly underestimating the weight of a train. Locomotives are about 200 tons alone. Cars are 30t, plus 100t of cargo.

[Zaq]

Spells: Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms + permanency can get you up to a +16 untyped str bonus without templates or LA.

Permanency has a very strict whitelist. Neither Girallon's Blessing nor Fuse Arms is on that whitelist, so neither one can be affected with Permanency.

[Eldariel]

Permanency has a very strict whitelist. Neither Girallon's Blessing nor Fuse Arms is on that whitelist, so neither one can be affected with Permanency.

They are, however, both low level 10 min/level spells so luckily enough there's little need nor reason to Permanency them on higher levels. Extension will do and indeed, should worst come to worst you can always Ocular/Reach Spell + Persistent Spell them.

[Seclora]

Completely off-topic, but you are vastly underestimating the weight of a train. Locomotives are about 200 tons alone. Cars are 30t, plus 100t of cargo.

My apologies then, I looked up things that weighed 400 tons and that was what popped up.


Maybe it's all the Exalted that I've been playing, but I pictured the character carrying the rest of his dying teammates through the Stargate portal as the local star underwent gravitational collapse into a black hole. Oh, and dragging their animal circus behind him.

Also, a shout out to the Terminationer, from the immortal Samurai Cat Goes to the Movies, one of my favorite books evah. He appears in the last chapter wielding an Aegis Cruiser with his bear hands against an army of cyborg t-rexes with laser-beam eyes.
3.5 with some D20 modern elements; but I actually did carry the entire party, dead or alive, off of a dying plane that had been turned into a Lich's phylactery, with one round to spare, pursued by epic level versions of the Cranium Rat swarms(Fiend Folio, nasty little buggers who get psionic powers on top of being a swarm.)


The character in question was a Soulknife 15/Illumine Soul 5/Swordsage 10 Lycanthrope(Afflicted: Legendary Werebear from MM2) Half Celestial Hobgoblin Saint, with a Vow of Poverty. No LA buyoff. No War Hulk, no magic items, no casting. We did advance the VoP into Epic levels, and I did pick up the +5 Inherent bonus to Str.

[Yael]

Am I smelling Warhulk? And if I was mistaken, why am I not smelling Warhulk?

[dextercorvia]

Permanency has a very strict whitelist. Neither Girallon's Blessing nor Fuse Arms is on that whitelist, so neither one can be affected with Permanency.

They are on the list in Savage Species. That is probably preempted by the list in the PHB, but it's grounds to explore.

[Iwasforger03]

Permanency has a very strict whitelist. Neither Girallon's Blessing nor Fuse Arms is on that whitelist, so neither one can be affected with Permanency.

See Savage Species pg 60. Both Fuse Arms and Girallon's Blessing work with Permanency.

[Psyren]

irl physics

*snort* hahahahahaha

[torrasque666]

See Savage Species pg 60. Both Fuse Arms and Girallon's Blessing work with Permanency.

Savage species is 3.0 material. It's addition gets overriden by the printing in the 3.5 PHB.

[Iwasforger03]

RAW allows permanency to the spells. And Also: That isn't strictly true, as permanency in PHB only covered the spells IN PHB, which were by and large the same spells as the 3.0 PHB.

[torrasque666]

If i recall though, the most recent printing takes effect. so while SS added to the 3.0 permenancy, the 3.5 edition overrides that.

[Necroticplague]

If i recall though, the most recent printing takes effect. so while SS added to the 3.0 permenancy, the 3.5 edition overrides that.

Only in the case of contradiction. And in this case, their isn't one: SS says that these spells can be Permanancied. PHB says that a different set of spells can also be permanencied. No contradiction to take precedence.

[Iwasforger03]

Thank you for the clarification Necroticplague.