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View Full Version : Optimization The Fixer: A Different Kind of Unseen Seer



Piggy Knowles
2014-07-05, 02:09 PM
A few times now, I've seen people looking for Unseen Seer builds, and I've suggested a straight wizard entry, using Master Specialist to delay your 5th-level wizard feat so that you can pick up Assassin's Stance at ECL 10 instead of ECL 12, and using Ruathar to gain the necessary skills. Still, I've never actually written up the build, so I thought I would. Here is what I've got; thoughts and feedback would be appreciated.

I envision this build as a sort of super-fixer - stealthy, quiet and very, very deadly, someone who always has the right tool for the job somewhere in her tool chest.

Human, Wizard 5/Master Specialist 2/Ruathar 3/Unseen Seer 10
ACFs: Abrupt Jaunt, Simple Wizard

1. Wizard1- Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Darkstalker
Straightforward opening. You're using the Simple Wizard variant to take fighter feats instead of Scribe Scroll or metamagic feats. Improved Initiative is nice, but it'll really come in handy down the road. Darkstalker is a must for any stealth-focused build, and SF (Conjuration) certainly doesn't hurt, and qualifies you for Master Specialist.

Conjurer is chosen here almost solely for the Abrupt Jaunt ACF. However, this build will do more with a familiar than most, thanks to familiars using the skill ranks of their master. If you prefer to keep the familiar, then consider going diviner or transmuter in its place.

At this point, you're going to want to start cross-classing your stealth skills. Ruathar will allow you to play catch-up with the necessary skills, but these are handy from level one. With an 18 Int, you should be starting things off with 2 ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Search and Spot, and 4 ranks in Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana) and Concentration.
2. Wizard2-
3. Wizard3- Extend Spell
Arguably the best metamagic in the game, so you might as well take it now. By level 5, the whole party will be thanking you for your extended rope tricks. This is also the level where your spells really start augmenting your skills. In particular, invisibility + Darkstalker will get you by many foes, and alter self will be your do-it-all spell that provides you with huge skill bonuses, alternative modes of movement or defensive boosts.

Skill update: 3 ranks in Hide/MS/Search/Spot, 6 ranks in Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana) and Concentration.
4. Master Specialist1- Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Master Specialist is primarily here to delay the feat timing of your 5th-level wizard feat. Still, a bonus feat and extra spells in your spellbook never hurts.
5. Master Specialist2-
Skill update: 4 ranks in Hide/MS/Search/Spot, 8 ranks in Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana) and Concentration.
6. Ruathar1- Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
Just like that, your skills suddenly get so much easier. Ruathar has more skill points than wizard and, most importantly, every required skill as a class skill. The extra class features don't hurt, but the skills are the real draw here.

At this point, I would use all of your skill points to quickly catch up your stealthing skills. Dropping 5 into Hide and 4 into Move Silently means that your stealth skills are about as good as any rogue, plus you have spells to make them better. You can begin catching up your other skills in the levels to come.
7. Ruathar2-
8. Ruathar3-
You should have an extra skill rank starting about now, thanks to your level 4 and 8 ability boosts.

Skill update: 11 ranks in Hide and Move Silently, 10 ranks in Concentration, 8 ranks in Spot, Search, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft, 4 ranks in Sense Motive.
9. Wizard4- Spell Mastery
Spell Mastery is a requirement for Uncanny Forethought, but isn't a bad thing to have in your back pocket regardless.

Don't forget that Martial Study for a Shadow Hand maneuver keeps Hide as a class skill for you. 12 ranks in Hide/MS, 11 ranks in Concentration, 9 ranks in Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft and Spot, 8 ranks in Search, 4 ranks in Sense Motive.
10. Wizard5- Martial Stance (Assassin’s Stance)
This was the whole reason for taking Master Specialist. You want sneak attack that can be improved by Unseen Seer, so Assassin's Stance is your go-to. You need to be level 10 to qualify for a 3rd-level stance, but ordinarily you wouldn't get a feat until level 12, leaving Unseen Seer with no sneak attack to advance. By delaying when you can nab a bonus fighter feat, you can time things so that you can take 10 full levels of Unseen Seer AFTER picking up Assassin's Stance, without ever sacrificing a single level of casting.
11. Unseen Seer1-
I'm going to stop doing the skill totals now; with 12 skill points per level, you will easily play catch-up on all of your skills and start picking up skill tricks to boot. Your very first level of Unseen Seer boosts your sneak attack up to +3d6, which is not too shabby for an 11th-level wizard. Magelord, eat your heart out.
12. Unseen Seer2- Uncanny Forethought, Silent Spell
There are a lot of good choices for Advanced Learning. Hunter's eye is a classic, and will greatly increase your damage potential. However, I'm also a huge fan of divine insight, so it's a tough call. For this build, though, I'd go with hunter's eye.

Uncanny Forethought is my usual response to complaints about "Schrodinger's Wizard," where a wizard is always assumed to have the exact right spell prepared at any given point in time. Guess what? Now you pretty much do. As the point of this character is to be a "fixer" of sorts, this is especially valuable for you.
13. Unseen Seer3-
14. Unseen Seer4-
15. Unseen Seer5- Quicken Spell
Even without metamagic reducers, Quicken Spell is another must-have metamagic choice. At this point you're talking about quickening 4th-level spells. That's pretty strong.

Your second Advanced Learning should be foresight, off the Time domain. Never leave home without it! (Seriously, don't. Along with mind blank, this will be one of your staple defensive spells.)
16. Unseen Seer6-
17. Unseen Seer7-
18. Unseen Seer8- Practiced Spellcaster
I considered having Craft Contingent Spell or Persistent Spell here instead, but shoring up your caster level on non-divination spells is almost certainly the better choice.

You also get your final Advanced Learning here. Choose destiny off the Destiny domain can be handy - swift action casting, and for one round per level, you're always rolling twice and taking the better result. It's no shapechange, but really, what is?
19. Unseen Seer9-
20. Unseen Seer10-

So there you have it! +6d6 sneak attack and fantastic skills on top of 20 levels of wizard casting. Any thoughts? Anything I've missed or left out?

Flickerdart
2014-07-05, 02:27 PM
You're missing out on a whole bunch of class features. Sure, you have spells and SA, but what else?

I like mixing Spellwarp Sniper or Magelord into my Unseen Seer for some nice little bonuses on top of "caster that has sneak attack."

Twilightwyrm
2014-07-05, 02:47 PM
Assuming the DM allows retraining feats, I'd be inclined to swap Darkstalker for Guerrilla Warrior (Heroes of Battle). Guerrilla Warrior lets you take Move Silently and Hide at 1:1 as cross-class skills (and reduces check penalties by 1, but we don't care about that). At low lever, especially when you are trying for early entry into classes, the extra skill points available will probably see more use than the ability to stealth around the small group of low-level creatures that have Blindsight(/sense). Once you get to higher level and you start needing Darkstalker, retrain Guerrilla Warrior (and a few skill points so everything qualifies right) and pick up the feat. It won't matter much at the end, but a quality of life improvement at lower levels, I would imagine, would be welcome for a wizard.

Irk
2014-07-05, 05:38 PM
The abilities granted by Magelord and Spellwarp Sniper are pretty trivial compared to anything full spellcasting can do. It's not just the sneak attack and spells, it's the skills as well, which differentiate this from similar builds. I know what I'm playing next time I need an unseen seer.

Flickerdart
2014-07-05, 05:40 PM
The abilities granted by Magelord and Spellwarp Sniper are pretty trivial compared to anything full spellcasting can do.
Wait, what? Magelord and Spellwarp Sniper abilities directly complement spellcasting by making it better. Skills are just those things you roll when you're not being an awesome caster.

Irk
2014-07-05, 05:56 PM
Wait, what? Magelord and Spellwarp Sniper abilities directly complement spellcasting by making it better. Skills are just those things you roll when you're not being an awesome caster.
Well, I can agree that Spellwarp Sniper has certain useful abilities, but Magelord requires FAR too many feats to work the same way this build does. I suppose your correct in that my statement was a bit hasty, but skills never become irrelevant, so I'd have to disagree with you there.

EDIT: What I'm saying is that I'd rather have access to the feats presented in this build than Magelord's abilities and I like to have a good variety of skills similar to this build.

Piggy Knowles
2014-07-05, 06:17 PM
Magelord is cool and all, but its abilities are largely made obsolete by Uncanny Forethought, which directly duplicates its best class feature, and also gives you the option of converting empty spell slots into ANY known spell. The four extra mastered spells are nice, but I'd rather have the skills, advanced learnings and CL boosts of Unseen Seer. If you feel like this build doesn't get enough mastered spells, drop one of the feats for another Spell Mastery and call it a day.

Spellwarp Sniper is its own sort of thing. You can easily replace Improved Initiative with PBS and your last five levels with Spellwarp Sniper if that's the sort of thing you're into. You still get a high enough advanced learning to pick up foresight as an 8th-level spell, and you'll trade +2d6 sneak attack for +2d6 sudden raystrike. Of course, the latter doesn't apply to things like attacks from cloud of knives, nor does it apply to you when you're, say, polymorphed into a hydra. Basically, it depends on how much you want to build into rays. I like Spellwarp Sniper builds, but as a general rule, as with Magelord I'd prefer the skills and advanced learnings. (I also tend to think sorcerers make better Spellwarp Snipers thanks to spells like wings of flurry and arcane fusion.)

As for skills versus spells, think of skills as augmenting spells, and vice versa. Stealth skills in particular become more or less unbeatable when combined with magic. Invisibility plus mind blank plus Darkstalker plus a buffed out set of stealth checks are really hard to beat, even for casters.

RE: Guerilla Warrior- Yeah, if retraining is allowed, that's not a bad move. Even better would be to take Able Learner, which gives you the same benefit but also applies to your other cross-class skills. Also, if your DM allows you to take Martial Study at first level (despite the fact that you will have an IL of 0.5), then move Martial Study to first level, pick up Clinging Shadow Strike or something, and you can have Hide as a class skill from level one.

That said, I wouldn't discount the value of Darkstalker at low levels. Even with a mediocre hide check, you can use Darkstalker alongside invisibility to make sure that you at least have a chance of sneaking past things like guard dogs, which otherwise would be a full stop for an invisible character. Remember, the low CR range is chock full of animals that all have scent, but rarely have a listen or spot modifier higher than +5 or so.