Prestige Classes that can't be.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Just browsing through the Inner Sea World Guide, and happened upon the Hellknight PRC. One of the Prereq's is "You must slay a devil with HD greater than your own. This victory must be witnessed by a Hellknight." So, how would the first Hellknight ever have come to be?

Anyone else know of such prereq's that make the class impossible to be?

[JHShadon]

Time travel.

[grarrrg]

The Hell Knights are an order, and that particular PrC just represents a "typical" member.
There are 2 different Hell Knight PrC's (the Signifier is a Caster), which means there's plenty of diversity within the group, so it's possible that there are members not of those classes.

Given the abilities of the 'martial' Hell Knight class, I'd say there was definitely some Paladin influence along the way. Maybe a founding member was mostly a Paladin, but taught his followers a slightly different skill-set?

[Killer Angel]

Or: in ancient times there were different pre-requisites, and the actual entry refers to the current situation.

[With a box]

Ur-priest

The character must be trained by another ur-priest.
How the "first" Ur-priest possible?

[Segev]

Not a PrC, but the end-point of one (Walker in the Waste): A Dry Lich requires other Dry Liches to participate in the rituals that transform him from living to undead.

[Jormengand]

Tenth level (and higher) Dragon Disciples. Not only can they not exist, but they cause an infinite loop of falling and un-falling, basically grinding the universe to a halt as a series of state-based actions.

Stupid dragon disciples.

[Gildedragon]

Tenth level (and higher) Dragon Disciples. Not only can they not exist, but they cause an infinite loop of falling and un-falling, basically grinding the universe to a halt as a series of state-based actions.

Stupid dragon disciples.

That is only if one holds that CW and CM PrCing rules hold for PrCs outside of those books.

[TheIronGolem]

This is one of the reasons I dislike PrC's whose concept is "Member of the Order Of People Who Took Levels In This Prestige Class"

[Muggins]

That is only if one holds that CW and CM PrCing rules hold for PrCs outside of those books.
It's also not entirely relevant, given that the Dragon Disciple is a "Schrödinger's PrC" while Hell Knight is more of an Unlearnable Hidden Technique. Ur-Priest just happens to be both.

Seeker of the Misty Isle from Complete Divine has a variation on this. One of its requirements is "Special: Must be inducted into the order by another member." While most members of the order will achieve this by default, it also means that the founder(s) of the order are incapable of qualifying for their own prestige class (unless they leave the order and come back, I guess?).

[Jormengand]

That is only if one holds that CW and CM PrCing rules hold for PrCs outside of those books.

They do, and it bothered someone enough to sig their reasons to believe as much. I'll try to find it for you.

[grarrrg]

PF Dragon Disciple fixed this (whether intentionally or not) by just NOT making you into a Dragon at level 10. You still get all the relevant goodies (and more vs. the 3.5 version), but you don't get any template or anything.


As for the "Special: Must be inducted into the order by another member." type stuff, some can make sense, others not so much.
The Hell Knights could make sense because it's a large organization that is NOT all one specific class. They probably have high level Experts and such working for them that count as Hell Knights or something.

And things like Ur-Priest could make sense if you assume that "stealing spells from the gods" was an ability stumbled upon purely by accident by some lucky schmuck, and it's magnitudes easier to be taught how to do it by someone than it is to learn how to do it on your own. Like maybe it's a really counter-intuitive method or something. Like the invention of Penicillin "wait, so you're telling me that some of this fungusy stuff is actually GOOD for you?".

[ShurikVch]

So, how would the first Hellknight ever have come to be?

Anyone else know of such prereq's that make the class impossible to be?
Similar issues (which weren't mentioned before):
Seeker of the Song (CArc)
Special: Must have been exposed to the primal music by hearing another seeker of the song use a seeker music ability.
Swanmay (BoED)
Special: Knowingly or not, a character must perform a great service for another swanmay before she can join the order.
Elder Druid (Dragon #286)
Special: Must be nominated and trained by another Elder Druid and must forsake all other loyalties to any political power, nation or deity. Clerics who forsake their deity lose all spells and class features and cannot gain levels as a cleric.
Keshen Blademaster (Dungeon #97)
Special: Must have received training in Kesh from another Keshen blademaster.