Death and Dying

[Kanthalion]

So I just took over DMing duties from a DM who really doesn't like killing characters unless the player specifically expresses a desire to play a new character. While I have no desire to kill characters unnecessarily, I'm running Red Hand of Doom, and some of the encounters kinda depend on the players acting rationally like people who don't want to die, not like invincible superheroes.

RAW seems to be a pretty huge hardcore jump from what the players are used to, so on the first session I had them do a DC 10 Con check to stabilize, but that seems a bit too easy. I'm thinking of changing it to a DC 15 Con check that goes up one each time they fail.

Some advice on handling this from more experienced DMs would be appreciated.

[Kazudo]

Keep in mind, unless you're at -9, failure to stabilize doesn't mean death. The SRD isn't wanting to pull up on my site and I'm AFB, but I think that one of the easiest ways to handle it is to invoke the Worf effect at first possible instance. Get a DMPC. Someone the group really likes who is arguably more powerful than them. Have him die in combat as a result of normal combat proceedings. When they think it's nothing, just kind of say "Well, it's not hard to expect characters to not die in a game like this. I do tend to run by the rules..." and leave it at that.

Or voice your concerns to the players directly. That's always a good option I guess.

[Elkad]

Kill 'em all! If they can't recover the bodies (and pay for a rez), then they get to start over with new characters, and 1 level down, and the bad guys will have a nice selection of new gear.


Seriously, just tell them that nice time is over, and the dying time is about to begin.

[Rogue Shadows]

My advice?

Sit down with them and tell them that Red Hand of Doom is a campaign where characters can, and should, face the very real possibility of dying. There are ways to overcome this (don't mention the rod of resurrection, but allude to its existence), but at the end of the day, they just won't get the full RhoD experience if possibly-permanent death isn't a possibility. Bring up that some GMs have kept running tallies of the number of player characters that died when running RHoD, an that some GMs got as high as ten or fifteen PC deaths. I myself had two, plus a third character who's player felt it was in-character for him to run away. This campaign is supposed to basically be a heroic epic, but it wouldn't be very heroic or epic if there wasn't a chance for character death.

If they're okay with this, then proceed with RHoD.

And if they're not, tell them that that's okay, that you don't think any less of them, and then break out some My Little Pony miniatures and tell them that you're gonna be switching gears and running a campaign in the magical fantasy land of Equestria, which is full of colorful pegasus ponies, unicorn ponies, and earth ponies, and ruled over by the benevolent Princess Celestia.

...

...and then run Red Hand of Doom anyway. In Equestria.


Kill 'em all! If they can't recover the bodies (and pay for a rez), then they get to start over with new characters, and 1 level down, and the bad guys will have a nice selection of new gear.


Seriously, just tell them that nice time is over, and the dying time is about to begin.

Agreed.

Being a good Dungeon Master requires creativity, ingenuity, fairness, open-mindedness...and just the tiniest smidgen of malicious intent.

[KorbeltheReader]

I disagree. If it's a significant break in tone and style from the current game, perhaps the adventure isn't appropriate. It's the players' game, too, and maybe they like their game more like a story and less like a wargame.

I would advise especially strongly against acting like a macho jerk if they express apprehension about killing characters they've invested a lot of themselves in with the understanding that their story would have a heroic ending rather than "head lopped off by random trap #72."

If you really want to play this module but they really want their characters to survive, you can use NPC allies to help smooth out combat, or you can nerf some encounters, or you can give them a rod of resurrection with a small number of charges or something.

[Chernobyl]

Kill 'em all! If they can't recover the bodies (and pay for a rez), then they get to start over with new characters, and 1 level down, and the bad guys will have a nice selection of new gear.


Seriously, just tell them that nice time is over, and the dying time is about to begin.
Well, I wouldn't have put it in quite those words, but I have to agree with the sentiment. No game is fun if there's no chance of losing. Death is a part of life, and since roleplay imitates life, there should necessarily be a chance to die.

Having said that, I would be up front with the players about the change in style. I'd also stock the dungeon with a few extra scrolls of reincarnation or resurrection, to help them make the adjustment.

Remember that your job as DM is to keep them entertained so they'll come back to the table week after week. If they feel like the game is too rough, or that you're being unreasonable, then they won't come back and your campaign will fall apart.

-Chernobyl

[Elkad]

and just the tiniest smidgen of malicious intent.

Wait, smidgen? If someone doesn't get dragged away and eaten by ghouls, it's a slow night at my table. I give em way too much loot, and then make them spend it all on rezzes, assuming the bodies can even be recovered. I expect my players to be smart. And terrified for their lives.

[Kanthalion]

I took the advice of laying out for them how RHoD is an epic campaign and really relies on a real possibility of death for some of the encounters while stressing that I wouldn't go out of my way to kill them. I then told them we could either go with 3.5's official rule or a modification of the pathfinder rule and put it out to a vote. (I haven't gotten the results back yet.)

[Zanthy1]

I think that that is a reasonable way of handling the situation. I personally have never played RHoD, but from what I've read it seems very challenging. Obviously don't go out of your way to kill them, but also don't go out of the way to save them. You have given them proper warning, and with that you should proceed to run the campaign the way it was meant to be run. The only modification I can think of would be add a little more loot with healing and such in mind. I am not a fan necessarily of scrolls of rez, but healing potions and wands of minor healing can be just as helpful, and feel a lot less like you are pampering them. Players hate being played down to, and if you just happen to give them a rod of resurrection every now and then or other similar stuff, then that is exactly how they would feel. If, however, you intend to give them said rod, do it at the start of the campaign, with a set amount of charges. That way they might feel a little worried, but not del like you are holding their hand.

[Kanthalion]

If...you intend to give them said rod, do it at the start of the campaign, with a set amount of charges. That way they might feel a little worried, but not del like you are holding their hand.

As Rogue Shadows hinted, there is something very like that written in to the module.

[Zanthy1]

As Rogue Shadows hinted, there is something very like that written in to the module.

Gotcha, then forget that part lol

[Troacctid]

You could crib the death rules from 5th edition. Basically, no negative HP and you don't insta-die unless you take damage equal to your max HP while you're at 0, and when you're at 0 you have to roll to stabilize. It's still deadly, but you'll pretty much always get a saving throw to live barring absurd amounts of damage.

[Kanthalion]

You could crib the death rules from 5th edition. Basically, no negative HP and you don't insta-die unless you take damage equal to your max HP while you're at 0, and when you're at 0 you have to roll to stabilize. It's still deadly, but you'll pretty much always get a saving throw to live barring absurd amounts of damage.

I don't quite follow... So if you go to zero and fail your stabilize check, you die?

[Troacctid]

Every turn that you're at 0 HP, you roll a d20. On a 10 or higher, you succeed. On a 9 or lower, you fail. Three successes and you become stable and can stop rolling. Three failures and you die. A natural 1 counts as two failures; a natural 20 restores you to 1 HP. If you take damage while dying, it counts as a failure, or two failures if it was from a critical hit.

[Kanthalion]

Interesting. I'll keep that in mind for future reference, but I don't think I want to muddy the waters anymore than I already have for my players.

[sideswipe]

say "as a learning exercise, today we will be running tomb of horrors."

[BWR]

say "as a learning exercise, today we will be running tomb of horrors."

That's about like taking people who've only walked up Himmelbjerget to K2 .

I'd just tell the players beforehand that the game you want to run is deadly and difficult. If everyone balks at this idea, find something else to run. If they can be convinced, then run it. Don't spring drastically different sorts of games on unwitting players. If i run CoC/Laundry Files, I tell the players that it's a deadly, dangerous system and they have to be careful. if I were to run some superhero game I'd tell them that nobody dies and they come back somehow if they did die.