View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Spellcasting getting ripped apart +a base attack bonus thing. [3.5]

Teapot Salty
2014-07-07, 03:04 PM
Hey guys. So, it's a commonly known fact that spellcasting is insanely powerful (insanely) and only the most optimized muggles can compete with their magic brethren. There have been numerous tries to fix it, including The Philosophers stone (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?210623-3-5-Magic-Remix-The-Philosopher-s-Stone) a very well done fix. But I'm here to offer up something different, something that will take loads of work, and is nowhere (NOWHERE) near done. But here is the basic gist of it:

The old spellcasting lists are gone, dead and gone. Instead, each primary spellcaster has access to different spells, unique to their class, organized in tiers. The cleric gets defense and healing, the sorcerer blasting, the wizard, gimping and the druid a bit of each. Each spellcaster learns a new spell every odd level beyond first, and starts with 3. Their are five tiers of spells, which are:

Apprentice: Available to be learned at level 1

Example spell: Cure light wounds

Adept: Available to be learned at level 5

Example spell:

Lightning shackles:
Target takes 1d6 electricity damage per 5 wizard levels and must succeed a reflex save (dc 10+ 1/2wizard level+int modifier) Or have all their speeds reduced by 5ft per 5 wizard levels. A wizard may chose to target multiple opponents with this spell, provided he divides the damage dice between them. For example a tenth level wizard may target one opponent and deal 2d6 damage, or two and deal 1d6 damage to each. No matter how many opponents hit, they are all forced the same save with the same effect.

Master: Available to be learned at level 10

Flaming wind: 60 ft long, 10ft wide line of fire shoots from your palm, dealing 1d6 per sorcerer level fire damage and pushes all caught in it's blast back 1d4x5 feet(reflex dc 10+1/2 sorcerer level+sorcerer charisma modifier for half damage and no push)

Legendary: Available to be learned at level 15

Example spell: Harm

I'm toying with a mana system, where each spell has an individual cost, and the caster has mana equal to their casting stat + (or perhaps times) the caster level.

Now, in an effort to buff the muggles slightly here is what I have. All abilities below apply to all characters:

You have a competence bonus to your ac equal to half your base attack bonus.

You have a competence bonus to damage rolls equal to one third of your base attack bonus.

I still have to buff the individual mundane classes, but that BAB buff will be present in all my games, I think.

What do you guys think of them? Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

1.0 Original Version
1.1 Added Changelog
1.2 Flaming wind does fire damage
1.5 Changed save dc to half level (Thank you Jiriku)

2014-07-07, 09:23 PM
Radically restricting spells known will definitely reduce the power of casters. I think you're on the right track when you remove level caps as well. If I only know a small handful of spells, I need all of them to useful for me; I'm no good if half my spells aren't level-appropriate because I hit a dice cap on them 10 levels ago. Likewise, setting save DCs according to class level rather than spell level is necessary to keep those low-level spells relevant in high-level play. However, I'd suggest progressing at 10 + 1/2 level + attribute; progressing at full class level will quickly outstrip the enemy's saving throws.

I am not sure that the numeric buffs to all classes serve a useful purpose. In general, most martial classes don't have difficulty building a credible AC or dealing damage, so it's kind of a solution in search of a problem. A more appropriate broad-based fix might be an increase of 2 skill points per level to all classes. Nearly all martial classes have uncomfortably limited skill points, and even the casters (with their newly restricted spell lists) may start feeling the skill pain as well, depending on which skill-buffing spells you allow them to keep.

Epsilon Rose
2014-07-07, 09:42 PM
I think with spell lists and, presumably, castings so heavily limited mages might start running into a problem where a there are scenes that they just can't do anything meaningful. That doesn't mean I think limiting spells is the wrong way to go, just that you should probably add something else. Honestly, it might be a good idea to do that anyways. I think one of the main reasons that the core casters are so broken is because they have absolutely no class features (or nothing particularly useful),* so their spells have to do all the lifting and, combined with vancian casting, that pushes them into being broken.

*The Druid does get wildshape, but that's basically a spell.