25000 GP question

[Vindicus]

If you had 25000 GP to spend on just 1 magic item what would it be? Any official wotc 3.5 source is good. No Dragon.

[Alent]

Sunscreen.

More seriously, even though it comes in way below the target mark, an enveloping pit. I'm a packrat.

[Aegis013]

If you had 25000 GP to spend on just 1 magic item what would it be? Any official wotc 3.5 source is good. No Dragon.

Certain classes will want particular items. Could you give anymore information about the situation? Or is this purely hypothetical?

[DeAnno]

If you are stealthy, a Continuous Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, Tome of Magic pg 156 22,000 gp. Confers the Dark Creature Template, which among other things gives Hide In Plain Sight anywhere outside natural daylight or a similar spell.

Otherwise, a Vest or Cloak of Resistance +5, for 25,000gp, +5 to all saving throws.

I can't think of any better deals than those two.

[Vindicus]

Certain classes will want particular items. Could you give anymore information about the situation? Or is this purely hypothetical?

Currently a Warlock. I'm on the path to be a Warlock/Ur-Priest/Eldritch Disciple. But this is more open ended. All suggestions welcome. I find that the playground always has some crazy idea or thing that I have never heard of before.

[ChocoSuisse]

Ring of X-Ray vision! See through clothes!

More seriously, for a Warlock, Greater Chasulbe of Fell Power (MIC) is fine.
Rod of Splendor is cool too.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For a Warlock going into Ur-Priest, probably a Greater Chasuble of Fell Power (MIC), with a +2 Enhancement bonus to Con and a +4 Enhancement bonus to Wis added (MIC p234), per DMG p282 the item only functions for a Warlock (30% cheaper) with ranks in Kn: Religion (10% cheaper). The whole thing costs a total of 23,940 gp.

[ChocoSuisse]

For a Warlock going into Ur-Priest, probably a Greater Chasuble of Fell Power (MIC), with a +2 Enhancement bonus to Con and a +4 Enhancement bonus to Wis added (MIC p234), per DMG p282 the item only functions for a Warlock (30% cheaper) with ranks in Kn: Religion (10% cheaper). The whole thing costs a total of 23,940 gp.
Wow.
For me, this would cost 18000 (base item) + 4000 for Con + 16000 for Wis.
That would be 38000gp.
The "only for Warlocks" part is probably already included in the base Greater Chasuble price.
I can't see any reason for Kn: Religion part except lowering the price, so I probably wouldn't allow it.
Maybe I'm a bit harsh on this, but I beleive I'm closer to an accurate price for this item than you.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wow.
For me, this would cost 18000 (base item) + 4000 for Con + 16000 for Wis.
That would be 38000gp.
The "only for Warlocks" part is probably already included in the base Greater Chasuble price.
I can't see any reason for Kn: Religion part except lowering the price, so I probably wouldn't allow it.
Maybe I'm a bit harsh on this, but I beleive I'm closer to an accurate price for this item than you.

DMG p282, sidebar, you can add restrictions to items and lower the cost. Adding a skill requirement to an item reduces its price by 10%, adding a class or alignment requirement to an item reduces its price by 30%. The Chasuble works on any spells with the chaotic descriptor that deal damage, such as Chaos Hammer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chaosHammer.htm), so any character can benefit from it by default.

[Firechanter]

Funny, when reading "25000gp" I immediately thought "Wish", then "more Wishes", then "Candle of Invocation". ;)

ofc not saying you should try that. :D

[ChocoSuisse]

DMG p282, sidebar, you can add restrictions to items and lower the cost. Adding a skill requirement to an item reduces its price by 10%, adding a class or alignment requirement to an item reduces its price by 30%. The Chasuble works on any spells with the chaotic descriptor that deal damage, such as Chaos Hammer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chaosHammer.htm), so any character can benefit from it by default.

Not really. It's still a very specific item and I wouldn't see anyone outside of Warlocks that would invest 18000gp for this.
The skill requirement would make sense if the item's purpose was built around this skill (example : an item that would have an augury effect needing Kn:Religion roll to interpret the result, or an item providing the Scent ability (needing Survival skill))
And even if this was the case, I would apply the price reduction only to the related functionality, not to CON and WIS bonuses.

You're taking a really good item and adding +4Wis +2 Con for 5000gp. That's clearly too cheap.

[RFLS]

Not really. It's still a very specific item and I wouldn't see anyone outside of Warlocks that would invest 18000gp for this.
The skill requirement would make sense if the item's purpose was built around this skill (example : an item that would have an augury effect needing Kn:Religion roll to interpret the result, or an item providing the Scent ability (needing Survival skill))
And even if this was the case, I would apply the price reduction only to the related functionality, not to CON and WIS bonuses.

You're taking a really good item and adding +4Wis +2 Con for 5000gp. That's clearly too cheap.

He's not debating what's reasonable. He's stating what the provided rules in the DMG have to say on the matter, and is correct. If the DM follows those rules to a T,, that is the price they will arrive at. The DM, however, is entirely welcome to tell this set of rules to jump out a window. What's reasonable is open for debate, and, as with all vision magic items, is a DM call. There is no right answer at that point.

[ChocoSuisse]

Yes, I was supposing reasonable suggestions would be more helpful.
If it's not the case, you can go on and craft your glasses of true strike, etc.

[jiriku]

He's not debating what's reasonable. He's stating what the provided rules in the DMG have to say on the matter, and is correct. If the DM follows those rules to a T,, that is the price they will arrive at. The DM, however, is entirely welcome to tell this set of rules to jump out a window. What's reasonable is open for debate, and, as with all vision magic items, is a DM call. There is no right answer at that point.

A more accurate criticism would be that those are not rules at all, but estimates and guidelines intended to help the DM fairly assign prices to custom items using DM fiat. Players are not entitled to set prices on custom magic items and there are no rules permitting them to do so.

[Oddman80]

The % cost reduction for adding class or skill requirements was in order to make the item useful to fewer characters in the world. when a PC dies, and the other party members loot his body - oops, too bad, that +6 belt of magnificence can only be used by monks with 10 ranks in Perform "Pantomime". Looks like you are going to need to spend a level and a bunch of skill points if you ever want to use it too.

The fact that a Headband of Intellect is far more benificial to a wizard/sorceror than to a melee class does not mean it is already a specialized item - and therefore cannot be given the specialized cost adjustments. Just like a Wizard taking the noncombatant flaw wouldn't prohibit him from gaining a feat.

Anything can be overwritten by DM fiat, but rules are rules.
I recently made a bunch of wondrous item purchases with the specialized restrictions added. It reduced the cost (Yay) and made sure that my double crossing party members wouldn't benefit from backstabbing me... well... really just that one chaotic neutral ranger... I really don't trust that guy...

[Vindicus]

Come on playground. You have more suggestions than that.

[Darkweave31]

Is it imperative that it's one item? I think in general that it's more beneficial to have many smaller items with strategically stacking bonuses than one big one.

[Magma Armor0]

Personally, my favorite has always been the Monk's Belt, but I'm pretty sure the Belt of Battle is better. That said, they're both pretty cheap, so feel free to add (per MIC or DMG rules) effects of your choice.

[Vindicus]

Is it imperative that it's one item? I think in general that it's more beneficial to have many smaller items with strategically stacking bonuses than one big one.

Yes, just one item.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hat of Anonymity in MIC is 12,500 gp. Its default caster level for the nondetection is 7th, but you can give it a higher caster level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) and its base price (i.e. the cost to make it) won't change because it's not variable. This will give it a higher Nondetection DC. If crafted by an NPC they would definitely charge more for it at a higher caster level, the item's price is (skill bonus 5x5x100gp)x1.5 for additional property + 7x1250gp for nondetection = 12,500 gp. To get one at a caster level of 17th, for a Nondetection DC of 32, the price should be exactly 25,000 gp.

[Oddman80]

As a melee focused character, I hate having to lose out on a round where I could be smashing more things just to make sure I don't... you know, "die". That's why I love my modified Helm of Glorious Recovery - It became the Helm of Contingent Glorious Recovery, and once per day, it will automatically kick in an casts Cure Critical Wounds on me if I fall below 10 Hit Points. Now I have plenty of time to smash more things!
11,200 gp


FYI, I reverse engineered the Helm to get its base price multiplier given the spell level*caster level (i.e., 200 gp). I then added on 2x the extra cost for crafting contingent items per the Craft Contingent Item feat (100gp x 2 = 200gp) to that base price and re-multiplied the spell level*caster level in order to get the market price for the contingent version of the helm.


Also, if there is something that is causing so much damage to me, that I have gotten down that low in hit points, it is nice to be able to return the favor. Hence the Retributive Amulet - as an immediate action, you can activate it and it will automatically deal back damage to your melee attacker equal to half of what it dealt you. Its kind of like Robilars Gambit without having to wait for the high enough BAB.
3000 gp/use a day. MIC lists a 3/day version for 9,000.


Lastly, nobody likes getting turned against their own party. Especially if you can Whirling Frenzy half of the party to death in a single round. That's why I make sure I have a Crystal Mask of Mind Armor that gives my a +5 to Will Saves.
10,000 gp

[Gabrosin]

Lastly, nobody likes getting turned against their own party. Especially if you can Whirling Frenzy half of the party to death in a single round. That's why I make sure I have a Crystal Mask of Mind Armor that gives my a +5 to Will Saves.
10,000 gp

If your DM follows the pricing rules, you should consider an item of continuous Protection from Evil instead. +2 to AC/saves against evil opponents, but complete immunity to charm, compulsion, and domination... and summoned creatures too. Costs 4000 gp.

[Oddman80]

If your DM follows the pricing rules, you should consider an item of continuous Protection from Evil instead. +2 to AC/saves against evil opponents, but complete immunity to charm, compulsion, and domination... and summoned creatures too. Costs 4000 gp.

Yeah, i have a ring of that. Sadly, my DM has a habit of using a overly high percentage of neutral foes. Things that are evil by the book, and are attacking us unprovoked, manage to somehow be chaotic neutral... To be fair, we were slicing and dicing through most of his encounters virtually untouched for the first few levels. I could tell he wanted to dominate my guy and have me turn on the party. He's been good about not making it happen every encounter... But yeah, I also have 'scorpions resolve', 'steadfast determination', a Vest of Resistance +4, and a dip in cloistered cleric to help with that whole problem....
My characters name is Thunk the Paranoid. He can take the hits... Just really really really doesn't like being controlled or caught off guard.

[Shining Wrath]

For any class, and especially a caster-ish class like Warlock, it's hard to beat boosting your primary statistic. Put 16000 GP into boosting your Wisdom or Charisma.

[Invader]

DMG p282, sidebar, you can add restrictions to items and lower the cost. Adding a skill requirement to an item reduces its price by 10%, adding a class or alignment requirement to an item reduces its price by 30%. The Chasuble works on any spells with the chaotic descriptor that deal damage, such as Chaos Hammer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chaosHammer.htm), so any character can benefit from it by default.

I never this and suddenly the artificer became even more ridiculous.

[ChocoSuisse]

If your DM follows the pricing rules, you should consider an item of continuous Protection from Evil instead. +2 to AC/saves against evil opponents, but complete immunity to charm, compulsion, and domination... and summoned creatures too. Costs 4000 gp.
This is also why these rules are so bad. (and why DMs should be careful when letting players design their own items)
+2 deflection to AC costs 8000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 4000gp.
+2 to saves costs 4000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 2000gp.
For immunity to charm and compulsion, I couldn't find an exact price, but it would certainly be at least 8000gp (see Mindvault).
For immunity to summoned creatures' attacks, at least 2000gp.

So, 16000gp would be a reasonable price for this item, I guess.
As a DM, I might allow it as low as 10000gp since the whole package is the effect of 1 spell (the 4 effects are "linked"), but below this price, it would break the balance of the game and become a must-have item for everyone.

[Erik Vale]

Candle of Invocation, which comes in at 8100 I think. I then proceed to loop for all the stuff.

[blackstone451]

I would go with a ring of invisibility.
Nothing could cause more mayhem :)

[Deadline]

Sadly, my DM has a habit of using a overly high percentage of neutral foes. Things that are evil by the book, and are attacking us unprovoked, manage to somehow be chaotic neutral... To be fair, we were slicing and dicing through most of his encounters virtually untouched for the first few levels. I could tell he wanted to dominate my guy and have me turn on the party.

It's worth noting that the only thing the alignment of your foes effects is the +2 to AC/saves from the Protection Spells. The immunity to charm and dominate works regardless of alignment. So Protection From Good can keep that evil vampire from dominating you just as well as Protection From Evil.

[Rijan_Sai]

This is also why these rules are so bad. (and why DMs should be careful when letting players design their own items)
+2 deflection to AC costs 8000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 4000gp.
+2 to saves costs 4000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 2000gp.
For immunity to charm and compulsion, I couldn't find an exact price, but it would certainly be at least 8000gp (see Mindvault).
For immunity to summoned creatures' attacks, at least 2000gp.

So, 16000gp would be a reasonable price for this item, I guess.
As a DM, I might allow it as low as 10000gp since the whole package is the effect of 1 spell (the 4 effects are "linked"), but below this price, it would break the balance of the game and become a must-have item for everyone.

^This.

This is also why I prefer Command activated items (at least for spell effects). Still falls under the "DM sets the price" perview, but tends to follow much more closely to the formula, at the cost of a standard action to activate, and the effect ending as per the spell. (Usually) comes in 1/day, 3/day and "At Will" varieties. Useful for those characters that less likely to invest much (if any) into UMD.

To answer the question, a combined Ring of Invisibility and Ring of Sustinance. 23750, (unless I'm remebering the order of price increase wrong...it is the less expensive effect that gets multiplied by 1.5, right?)

[Gabrosin]

This is also why these rules are so bad. (and why DMs should be careful when letting players design their own items)
+2 deflection to AC costs 8000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 4000gp.
+2 to saves costs 4000gp. let's divide by 2 because of the restriction (only vs Evil) => 2000gp.
For immunity to charm and compulsion, I couldn't find an exact price, but it would certainly be at least 8000gp (see Mindvault).
For immunity to summoned creatures' attacks, at least 2000gp.

So, 16000gp would be a reasonable price for this item, I guess.
As a DM, I might allow it as low as 10000gp since the whole package is the effect of 1 spell (the 4 effects are "linked"), but below this price, it would break the balance of the game and become a must-have item for everyone.

I agree, and it's probably a good deal even at 16000 gp. Honestly, the immunity to charm/compulsion is the part I care about for my characters; the rest I can deal with, but I never want one of my creations to be turned against the party. But short of a super-high level item like continuous Mind Blank, it doesn't seem to be possible to obtain such blanket protection in another way.

Plus, in real gameplay terms conditional ACs are annoying, especially if they're conditional on a condition you don't always know the answer to. My current campaign recently had a character riding a unicorn, and its moving Magic Circle Against Evil was a headache for everyone and a double headache for the DM.

[Ruethgar]

Spell trap rune circle of three wishes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Regarding the recommended pricing for custom items, especially continuous spell effects, there's one thing you need to keep in mind:
"The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)"

Forge Ring has a minimum caster level of 12th, Craft Wondrous Item has a minimum caster level of 3rd. Note that this rule was added with the DMG errata, so preexisting items do not follow this, but this means rings, rods, arms/armor, and wondrous items crafted by the party have a variable caster level but a nonvariable price. This is actually one of the benefits of crafting printed items yourself in the higher levels.

A Ring of Protection from Evil would cost (spell level 1 x minimum caster level 12 x 2,000 gp x 2 for 1 minute/level duration) = 48,000 gp.

A Wondrous Item of Protection from Evil with the appropriate body slot affinity (DMG p288, amulet/neck slot, cloak, or robe in this case) would cost (spell level 1 x minimum caster level 3 x 2,000 gp x 2 for 1 minute/level duration) = 12,000 gp.

The guidelines for pricing custom magic items usually work, as long as you follow the rules for the item's minimum caster level.

[ChocoSuisse]

Yes, forgot this.
But this rule is a bit clunky too : the difference of price between a ring and a wondrous item is probably too high.
(actually, to my mind, rings should be included in wondrous items)
And with this system, a Ring of Invisibility would cost way more than 20 000gp.

[Vindicus]

Any other wacky ideas?

[Coidzor]

Any other wacky ideas?

Shax's Indispensible Haversack comes to mind, but it's not exactly one item, either.