Best Spells to use with Persistent Spell

[Iwasforger03]

Alright, I'm working on a couple things using 3.5 and one thing using 3.5 and pathfinder together. In both cases, i have access to divine metamagic, persistent spell, and nightsticks.

So i wish to ask the playground: what spells out there are best used with Persistent spell. I know the usual, Divine Power/favor, Righteous Might. What other 3.5 spells are good with persistent Spell, and if it occurs to you, what pathfinder spells are good with persistent spell as well?

Thank you in advance.

[jiriku]

At very low levels, mass lesser vigor and ice axe are my go-to spells. The first makes the whole party happy and is a one-spell solution to party healing. The second, especially when combined with Power Attack, makes you a monster in melee combat and is competitive with persistent divine power in effectiveness. At higher levels, holy star and choose destiny are both pretty awesome. Linked perception, hunter's eye, and swift haste all come to mind. Righteous wrath of the faithful is another one that makes the whole party happy.

[Piggy Knowles]

Wraithstrike and swift haste are always fun choices.

[Snowbluff]

I like Holy Transformation, if you're pumping stats.

Shapechange qualifies, but the duration is already long.

Persisting Haste is great, especially if you're a Swiftblade. At level 6, it can't be dispelled (the bane of Persist), and gives a ton of other benefits. For this reason, I usually get a way to persist it.

Which is Occular spell. This will set the range to 60, letting you persist spells nature never intended.

[zingbobco000]

By core I'll do a quick list.

Sorcerer/Wizard Spells:
Resistance
Detect Magic (Arcane Sight probably is better though)
Read Magic
Shield
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Charm Person (Charm Monster, and Charm Monster mass are better)
Sleep
Disguise Self (I'd much much rather have alter self though)
Expeditious Retreat
Enlarge/Reduce Person (mass is probably better)
Summon Monster Spells
Detect Thoughts
See Invisibility
Flaming Sphere (follow me my flaming henchmen!)
Spectral Hand
Levitate (fly is better)
Alter Self
Phantom Steed
Arcane Sight
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Rage
Suggestion
Hold Person (a bit tricky as they get a bunch of saves, mass and hold monster, mass is better).
Halt Undead
Blink (Teleporting every round every day is nice)
Haste
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Slow
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (Not as good as the normal one)
Black Tentacles
Charm Monster
Confusion (Insanity is better)
Crushing Despair
Fire Shield
Fear
Invisibility, Greater
Enlarge/Reduce Person, Mass
Mage's Faithful Hound
Telepathic Bond
Prying Eyes
Animal Growth
Overland Flight
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Transformation (only if you're [somehow] out of spells or if you enjoy fighting).
Hold Person, Mass
Insanity
Mage's Sword
Control Undead
Ethereal Jaunt
Prismatic Wall (Prismatic Sphere is better)
Charm Monster, Mass
Maze
Iron Body (I don't really recommend this if your a full-caster, which to get this spell, you probably are.)
Prismatic Sphere
Foresight
Shapechange

Some of these spells are better used extended than persisted but I still put them on.

Will add more later.

[Iwasforger03]

There's a Pf spell that's haste with a range of personal, so that's taken care of. Though the effects of PF Divine power don't stack with Haste, so I need to see which Divine power i'm using here.

EDIT: Channel vigor is a personal range cleric spell that can give you the effects of the haste spell.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spell Compendium: Mass Lesser Vigor, Ice Axe, Holy Star, Stormrage, Visage of the Deity, Bite of the Werebear, Dragonbreath, Dragonsight, (Greater) Anyspell for arcane spells such as Wraithstrike.
Races of Destiny: Choose Destiny.
Book of Exalted Deeds: Elation.
PHB: Shield via Anyspell (get a 3rd level Pearl of Power to use it twice).
Draconomicon: Draconic Polymorph via Greater Anyspell.

Hour/level and 24-hour buffs:
Spell Compendium: Greater/Superior Resistance, Energy Immunity.
Book of Exalted Deeds: (Greater) Luminous Armor.
PHB: Magic Vestment on your Luminous Armor and Shield effects.

Get a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend and a 6th level Pearl of Power. Every other day spend two spell slots and those items to cast Extended Energy Immunity three times. On the days in between spend two spell slots and those items to cast Superior Resistance once and Energy Immunity twice. You're always immune to all five energy types and have a +6 Resistance bonus to your saving throws.

[Vaz]

Greater Consumptive Field. It basically reduces nearby targets by 20 effective HP, and empower yourself.

I have this image of a BBEG standing in his courtyard, readied for battle, but without outward signs of magical power upon him, while a horde of "heroic" soldiers manning a battering ram, preparing to storm in, somewhat similar to the battle for Helms Deep's inner castle, or Minas Tirith in LotR. As the gate is broken open, the BBEG doesn't move into guard position, he just stays there. As the horde rushes towards him, they suddenly drop dead (in my minds eye, turning to ash, but there's nothing to suggest that happens here) when they get close. Slowly, he sheathes his blade and nonchalantly walks out, slinging his shield over his back. Walking slowly, not running, or blinking, or even moving his eyes, he just stares at the enemy encampment, every step of the way slaughtering everything coming towards him just being near to him.

Getting close to the general, with the general being too strong to be affected by the aura (having more than 10HP), the cleric simply walks up, makes a grapple check, (the BBEG's Strength check being so darn high it's not even worth rolling to oppose), and strangles him to death (probably by choke hold and then CDG on the unconcious general).

[dextercorvia]

These are great lists. Just be aware that Divine Metamagic only works on divine spells. That is annoying sometimes, because the arcane persistomancy classes are usually branded as higher cheese than DMM.

[Necroticplague]

Cloud of Knives. A little bit of extra damage at the start of each turn, plus some awesome flavor (the daggers point towards where you look). A lot better if you have sneak attack.

[Iwasforger03]

That's really really really awesome. Now I just need about 8 more Night Sticks... i'm looking at where I can save gold, because current concepts leave me with enough gold to buy 2.

[Snowbluff]

Cloud of Knives. A little bit of extra damage at the start of each turn, plus some awesome flavor (the daggers point towards where you look). A lot better if you have sneak attack.

I've wanted to make a Suigintou build using spell thematics and spelldancer. It would be pretty sweet, but I haven't figured out a race combination. Ideally she would be a small/tiny construct...

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

At low levels, DMM Persisted Channeled Divine Shield is great. DR 10/evil at level 5 is quite useful.

[Svata]

Personally, especially for Good clerics, I like the Visage of the Deity line. Elemental resistances, SR, flight, stat boosts, a bit of Natural Armor, and some other various (but less useful) bonii. I sometimes use both Greater and normal in conjunction, as the normal one gives some things the Greater version doesn't (Smite, Darkvision (Greater only give low-light vision to good), and doubled Elemental resistances. Also, you get another +4 charisma, as it is an untyped bonus, and it isn't coming from the same source).

[Svata]

I've wanted to make a Suigintou build using spell thematics and spelldancer. It would be pretty sweet, but I haven't figured out a race combination. Ideally she would be a small/tiny construct...

Awakeded Animated Object? Unsure of details, but there was someone who was playing one in a gestalt game I'm in over on Myth-weavers.

[dextercorvia]

Here was my goto list in one campaign. A few of these (but not many) required chain or ocular to make persistable.

Spell Buffs/Immunities
Necrotic Empowerment Dex, Int, Wis,NA +8 Enh;Fort+5Comp;+100Temp HP
Delay Death Don't die at -10 or below
Shapechange (usually Chronotyryn for double actions) Sonic
Veil of Undeath Mind-affecting, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death, critical hits, non-lethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, damage to physical abilities, any Fort unless harmless or object
Superior Invisibility
Scintillating Scales NA to Deflection
Foresight AC, Saves +2 Insight Never surprised or flat footed
Friendly Fire Deflect ranged attacks to new targets
Favor of the Martyr Endurance Nonlethal, charm, compulsion, pain attacks, daze, exhaustion, fatigued, nauseated, sickened, staggered, stunned, remain conscious below 0
Lord of the Sky Fly+10', good
Aerial Alacrity Fly+30', perfect
Recitation AC, Attack, Saves +3 Luck
Lesser Visage of the Diety Cha+4 Enh (Greater versions overlapped too much with things I was already doing)
Shield of Warding AC, Ref +6 Sac
Choose Destiny Roll everything twice
Arcane Sight
Bite of the Wereboar Str+4Enh, Con+6Enh, NA+8 Enh

[Segev]

That's really really really awesome. Now I just need about 8 more Night Sticks... i'm looking at where I can save gold, because current concepts leave me with enough gold to buy 2.

All the stuff being suggested is pretty good. Now, however, I have to offer a splash of cold water.

You can only benefit from as many nightsticks as you can hold at once.

Read them carefully: they allow you to use Turn/Rebuke 4 more times per day than you normally could. They don't have 4 Turn/Rebukes "stored" in them per day.

To illustrate the difference, I'll start with the "good" of this: If you have two clerics in the party and only one Nightstick, one cleric can burn through all his turn attempts, then use the Nightstick to burn through up to 4 more. The second cleric also burns through all of his turn attempts, and then takes the Nightstick to get up to 4 more. Because the Nightstick changes the maximum number of turn/rebuke attempts the cleric gets, it works for as many clerics as want to hold it that day.

The "bad," on the other hand, is that it doesn't matter if you have 10,000 Nightsticks; if you have used all your turn attempts and pick up one of them, you can only use up to 4 more. Put it down after using 4 more and pick up another, and your maximum number of Turn attempts that day is still [your normal amount]+4, which you've already used today.

The semi-good is that, if you pick up a SECOND Nightstick while still holding the first, your maximum number of turn attempts that day is [your normal amount]+8.

So, if you have, say, 10 turn attempts in a day, and you pick up two nightsticks, you have 18 turn attempts you can use. If you use all 18, then put down the nightsticks, you have used 18 of 10 available turn attempts that day. If you pick up two different nightsticks, you still have used 18 of 18 turn attempts that day.

Now, if you can get extra arms with which to hold more of them, you can abuse this a bit further. A marilith cleric could get up to six nightsticks at once, for +24 turn attempts. A casting of Girallon's Blessing can give you +2 limbs, for up to 4 nightsticks at once. You can theoretically even stack Girallon's Blessing (and make it persistant, if you're casting it as a divine spell, while you're at it, if you want). But that is more investment of required spells to make this work.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cloud of Knives. A little bit of extra damage at the start of each turn, plus some awesome flavor (the daggers point towards where you look). A lot better if you have sneak attack.

More like Fell Drain Cloud of Knives! Persistent Fell Drain Fire Shield twice from a domain list is also pretty good, though Fell Frighten is better for that one as anyone who attacks you is automatically frightened and runs away.

[Snowbluff]

Awakeded Animated Object? Unsure of details, but there was someone who was playing one in a gestalt game I'm in over on Myth-weavers.

I'll look into it. She might be my thread of the day.

[ben-zayb]

Here's some which are yet to be suggested:

Undermaster (Level 9 Slot)
Free SLAs (earth lock, earthquake, excavate, flesh to stone, meld into stone, move earth, reverse gravity, soften earth and stone, statue, stone shape, stone tell, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute rock to mud, tunnel swallow, wall of stone, and xorn movement)

Reach Starmantle (Level 8 Slot)
Broken.

Body Outside Body (Level 7 Slot)
On tough GIsh builds, this is quite decent.

Selective Antimagic Field (Level 7 Slot)
Depending on build, but this is better than Persisted AMF.

Greater Blink (Level 5 Slot)
Halving AoE damage, attacking as Invisible, phasing... it's got plenty of useful stuff

Ruin Delver's Fortune
+Cha to a save... use multiple casting or Repeat/Twin metamagic for as needed

Bladeweave (Level 2 Slot)
Once per round Daze is quite decent since it's a condition that is hard to be Immune against

Sadism or Masochism (Level 2 Slot)
Up to +5 to attack/saves/skill sounds quite good

[Komatik]

Persist 24-hour-izes spells with a duration expressed in rounds, right?

Has Time Stop been FAQed to not work?

[Svata]

Persist 24-hour-izes spells with a duration expressed in rounds, right?

Has Time Stop been FAQed to not work?

Tme stop is in apparent time, not actual time, so it doesn't work.

[Werephilosopher]

These are great lists. Just be aware that Divine Metamagic only works on divine spells. That is annoying sometimes, because the arcane persistomancy classes are usually branded as higher cheese than DMM.

Alternative Source Spell's got you covered :smallwink:

[weckar]

Maximize works much better with Time Stop.

Anyway, let us not forget that Persistent spell can apply to touch spells through Reach Spell (as that gives a fixed range of 30ft.)

[Segev]

Tme stop is in apparent time, not actual time, so it doesn't work.

I've never seen a convincing argument that supports this position. Time Stop lists a duration of 1d4 rounds. Its text makes it clear that, for that duration, you're the only thing moving or experiencing time. Persist it, and you get 24 hours of duration.

There's nothing that says "apparent time" is somehow excepted from working with Persist.

[weckar]

I've never seen a convincing argument that supports this position. Time Stop lists a duration of 1d4 rounds. Its text makes it clear that, for that duration, you're the only thing moving or experiencing time. Persist it, and you get 24 hours of duration.

There's nothing that says "apparent time" is somehow excepted from working with Persist.It's tricky. It seems that effectively it would have the duration of a standard action (the one used to cast it, but time does pass as stated in the description).

[Snowbluff]

Anyway, let us not forget that Persistent spell can apply to touch spells through Reach Spell (as that gives a fixed range of 30ft.)

I already Swiftbladed you with Occular spell.

[weckar]

I already Swiftbladed you with Occular spell.
Matched and bettered you have, although by the fluff mechanics it is debatable whether you could target yourself with an ocular spell..

[Kennisiou]

Bite of the WereX Series
Sirine's Grace
Nixie's Grace
Lord of the Skies
Greater Blink
Greater Invisibility
Righteous Might
Cloud of Knives
Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
Swift Haste
Swift Fly
Divine Power
Evvard's Menacing Tentacles
Greater Mirror Image
Sacred Haven
Recitation
Blessing of the Righteous
Primal Instinct

[Vaz]

Feel free to ignore Segev's houserules, though guys.

Because that is what they are. Iirc, nightsticks are what you possess, not hold in your hands, (and assuming possess means 'on your person' as opposed to just 'owning' similar to a house is considered a possession).

Meanwhile, Time Stop's duration is 1d4+1 apparent time, which is changed to 24 hours of time (not 24 hours of apparent time).

[Snowbluff]

Matched and bettered you have, although by the fluff mechanics it is debatable whether you could target yourself with an ocular spell..

I'm so pretty I have a hard time not imagining it. Do my nails, and the only thing I'll hit with an Ocular spell is my hand. :smalltongue:

[Werephilosopher]

I've never seen a convincing argument that supports this position. Time Stop lists a duration of 1d4 rounds.

No, it lists a duration of "1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text." The text says "You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time." You can make time stop persistent, because its duration isn't instantaneous... but per the text of Persistent Spell, the duration is "increased to 24 hours" - not "24 hours of apparent time" - so you'd have 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time while everyone else jumps forward a day. Which is basically the opposite of what you'd want.