Cerebremancer.

[Yael]

Thread.

Is viable to go Elan Psion 3, and pay 1200gp to get yourself turned into a Beholder (Polymorph Any Object trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360814-Real-Simple-Elan-into-Beholder-Mage&p=17739035&posted=1#post17739035)) so you can take 2 Beholder Mage levels, and then proceed to Cerebremancer, to end up manifesting as a 13th level Psion and casting as a 20th level wizard (with a caster level of 26 I think?) just at level 16th, then taking other 4 levels in Psion (or a psion prestige with full manifesting) to end up manifesting 9th level powers, and casting 9th level spells as a wizard, with only Intelligence as the main casting stat. Don't know if this would be real op, or something, just wanted to confirm if this is viable still as T1 or something. :smallbiggrin:

[Rebel7284]

If by viable you mean ridiculously powerful, then sure!

Edit, also, I think your math is off.

Psion 3/BM 2/Cerebremancer 8. Is all you need...

[Yael]

If by viable you mean ridiculously powerful, then sure!

Edit, also, I think your math is off.

Psion 3/BM 2/Cerebremancer 8. Is all you need...

Yeah, but if you continue to take Cerebremancer levels beyond Caster Level 20th (say, after Cerebremancer 8), you continue to gain doubled caster level?

[Rebel7284]

You don't get double caster level at any point. It just progresses both caster and manifester level separately. If you want a caster level boost, you may want to look into Mind Mage. It needs minor tweaks to be updated to 3.5, but any DM that OKs Beholder Mage should be ok with that....

[Slithery D]

You don't get double caster level at any point. It just progresses both caster and manifester level separately. If you want a caster level boost, you may want to look into Mind Mage. It needs minor tweaks to be updated to 3.5, but any DM that OKs Beholder Mage should be ok with that....

He does get double caster level for BM levels. It's just not obvious how Cerebremancer caster level boosts should interact with the weird BM spell advancement. If he only gets one level of CL, but normal BM spell progression then he either wouldn't be able to use his higher level spells or he'd be casting 9th level spells with lower than 17th CL. Not sure how the rules work on that in 3.5.

[Yael]

He does get double caster level for BM levels. It's just not obvious how Cerebremancer caster level boosts should interact with the weird BM spell advancement. If he only gets one level of CL, but normal BM spell progression then he either wouldn't be able to use his higher level spells or he'd be casting 9th level spells with lower than 17th CL. Not sure how the rules work on that in 3.5.


Spells per Day/Powers Known
When a new cerebremancer level is attained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also attained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class.
...
This essentially means that he adds the level of cerebremancer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and manifesting class the character has, then determines spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

As I see it, and per the SRD entry of the Cerebremancer; you gain Caster Level as if you would have gained a level of the arcane spellcasting class you belonged before entering Cerebremancer, and per the Beholder Mage entry...


Spells: A beholder mage gains the ability to cast arcane spells. These spells are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
...
A beholder mage’s spells function at a caster level equal to twice its beholder mage level.

(Emphasis mine.)

As I see it, there are two options here:

• You determine your caster level by counting your Beholder Mage Prestige Class levels, and if you go Cerebremancer, your caster level will be 4th before entering, and after the 10 levels of cerebremancer, your CL would be 14th, or.

• You determine your caster level by counting your Beholder Mage spellcasting level, and if you go Cerebremancer, your caster level will be 4th before entering and will stop at 20th on your 8th Cerebremancer level (or continue to 24th if continuing CL over 20th, under ECL 20+ is possible.)

Confused, yeah...

[torrasque666]

Couldn't you manage to get into this at level 1 by arranging to replace your first level with it, and having the party wizard cast PAO on you(entering a high enough level party at level 1 would probably be suicide but hey, you'd level up fast.) and then arrange to take a theruge type class to keep advancing your casting, eventually ending up with a CL of 40?

[Yael]

Couldn't you manage to get into this at level 1 by arranging to replace your first level with it, and having the party wizard cast PAO on you(entering a high enough level party at level 1 would probably be suicide but hey, you'd level up fast.) and then arrange to take a theruge type class to keep advancing your casting, eventually ending up with a CL of 40?

It is possible as I see it, because to enter Beholder Mage you only need to be a True Beholder and to remove your central antimagic eye, which can be done early on the game. But to enter Cerebremancer early (like at 6th is the lowest I see it possible: 3 levels of psion to manifest 2nd-level powers, and 2 levels of BM to cast 2nd-level spells.)