does human heritage feat qualify someone for able learner.

[shadowseve]

So I'm Dming a game starting this week and I have a pc who is interested in arcane trickster. I'm trying to find away for her to get 9th level spells and arcane trickster. Now the prc requires 7 ranks of disable device and escape artist plus 2d6 sneak attack. She also wants to play a Tibbet.

Is there a way for her to do this other than 4 levels of rogue? I'm trying to see if she took the human heritage feat if that would qualify her for able learner. That way she could pull of rogue 1(with a rogues vest for 2d6 sneak)/sorc3/arcane trickster 10/ sorc 4.

Any ideas would be appriciated?

Edit:
changed title to be more specific.

[adriana]

I personally don't think there is an issue with it. Since you gain the human subtype I can see how that would be allowed. As the dm I think you would be ok with allowing something like that. It's a little ambiguous but I don't think by much.

[Divide by Zero]

You're the DM, you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't make the players want to quit.

As for RAW, even if it doesn't work, she could do it anyway assuming a positive Int modifier. The increased caps on class skills are permanent even when multiclassing, you just have to pay 2 points per rank.

[Gildedragon]

Ethereal or Tarterian Draconic Heritage (RotD) both grant Escape Artist as a class skill.
Making Rogue her 4th level allows her to then max out disable device.

a 1-dip into fighter can get her the other d6 of sneak attack for realsies

[eternal]

I think it would be viable also. Though why not put off arcane trickster for a bit. Instead of taking rogue I would go swordsage instead. You would have access to assassins stance which grants 2d6 of sneak attack ability and gives you maneuvers as well. So sorc 8/swordsage 2/ arcane trickster 10 would give you 9th level spells and initiator level of 11 qualifying you for 6th level maneuvers.

[shadowseve]

You're the DM, you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't make the players want to quit.

As for RAW, even if it doesn't work, she could do it anyway assuming a positive Int modifier. The increased caps on class skills are permanent even when multiclassing, you just have to pay 2 points per rank.

yeah I know I can override it but I'm trying to keep it as raw friendly as possible :smallbiggrin:. I know about the skills as well. She's wanting to bust into it as early as possible so....

[Curmudgeon]

Prerequisite: Human or doppelganger. "Human" is ambiguous, as that same term is used for both race and subtype. However, "Doppelganger" is only a race, so that means Able Learner requires Human race, not Human subtype (which is all that Human Heritage grants). RAW says it won't work.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Tibbits don't qualify for Human Heritage anyway because they're not descended from humans.
Also, your proposed build doesn't work because you need at least Sorc 6 for the 3rd level spell requirement.

You'll probably need at least a second level of rogue to get the necessary skills in class. You could also go with Unseen Seer and just take a few ranks cross class thanks to the increased skill points, but US has its own requirements that you'll need a second rogue level to meet comfortably.

Rogue 1/Sorc 3/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 3/Arcane Trickster 10/X would work, not require any feats and still get 9th level spells.
I'd question why you wouldn't just finish with Unseen Seer instead of AT since it's superior in pretty much every way though.

[shadowseve]

The whole vibe behind the character is a dark flavored sorc who is excellent at manipulating people. the focus is on blasting, manipulating with a little necro thrown in. I never liked arcane trickster but she liked it so I was trying to find a way to build it. You guys are right my build not qualifying.

So if there is a better build I'm all ears.

I'll have her look at unseen seer.

[Crake]

Human Heritage requires that you be a Half-Human or human descended race. Tibbits do not qualify for that, as they are descended from housecat familiars.

Even if you could qualify for Human heritage, both human heritage and able learner are level 1 feats, meaning you'll probably need a flaw to achieve that, which will come down to whether your DM allows that or not.

[Gildedragon]

Put rogue at level 4 and onwards to have a greater max rank cap. With previously purchases cross class ranks that might get you through. Or if you wanna spend a feat: Draconic Heritage (tarterian/etheral) gets you one of the skills you need as class skills. With that you can then raise escape artist and then at 4 raise escape artist.
It is a sorcerer only lvl 1 only feat .


Alternatively: there is a class called beguiler that seems to match your concept

[shadowseve]

Human Heritage requires that you be a Half-Human or human descended race. Tibbits do not qualify for that, as they are descended from housecat familiars.

Even if you could qualify for Human heritage, both human heritage and able learner are level 1 feats, meaning you'll probably need a flaw to achieve that, which will come down to whether your DM allows that or not.

Yeah I knew it was as stretch since they are from familiars but still are considered humanoids.

I've talked with her and I think she's wanting to change from arcane trickster.

So now she is going to go strait sorcerer and simply focus on blasting spells, manipulation land some necro focused. She's ditching the arcane trickster all together as she really doesn't like the rogue aspect. Women O.o

Anyrate thanks for the help and clarification. I figured it was a long shot.

[nedz]

The whole vibe behind the character is a dark flavored sorc who is excellent at manipulating people. the focus is on blasting, manipulating with a little necro thrown in. I never liked arcane trickster but she liked it so I was trying to find a way to build it. You guys are right my build not qualifying.

So if there is a better build I'm all ears.

I'll have her look at unseen seer.

This build doesn't do Blasting but excels at manipulating people.
Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 2 / Arcane Trickster 10
Some blasting is possible via Arcane Disciple, as are some further quite dark spells.
You can change Rogue for Spellthief, Ninja or possible Scout (though this requires a few more tweaks)

[sideswipe]

let her take human heritage. making her qualify for "human things" and you are the DM so you know you can be leinient

this means she can take lvl1 as wizard
lvl 2-4 in human paragon. and that gives you escape artist, decipher script or disable device as a class skill forever.
the others are class skill when you take these levels. so by the end of level 4 you can have 7 ranks in each.
you are also a third level wizard. and only dropped 1 caster level.

to get the sneak attack, either take swordsage 1 for assassin stance (a little cheesey but hey its not broken and she has it all the time so it can count as 2d6 for the prestige class).
or if that is too much for you then take sneak attack fighter 1 rogue 1 for 2d6 sneak attack.

so you are either
wiz 1/human para 3/ swordsage 1/wiz 2/arcane trickster 10 /wiz or other prestige 3 and get 9ths at level 19
or
wiz 1/human para 3/sneak attack fighter 1/ rogue 1/ wiz 2 / arcane trickster 10 / wiz or other 2 and 9ths at 20.


you could even since you have the human para bonus feat at lvl 3 along with level 3 feat take martial study and martial stance to get assassins stance.

so then you are.
wiz 1/ human paragon 3/ wiz 2/ arcane trickster 10/ wiz 4 (or other 4) for 9ths at level 18.

thats what i would do.

[shadowseve]

she's actually decided on just going strait sorcerer and mixing some of the more manipulative spells with evocation and a little necromancy thrown in.

I told her I would go ahead and grant her able learner but she declined. She wants to keep it simple She is my wife so... happy wife=happy life :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Gadora]

So now she is going to go strait sorcerer and simply focus on blasting spells, manipulation land some necro focused. She's ditching the arcane trickster all together as she really doesn't like the rogue aspect. Women O.o

I'm not sure why you're expressing exasperation with women there. It sounds like pretty much all the gamers I know, so it's really more a gamer thing. :smalltongue:

[shadowseve]

I'm not sure why you're expressing exasperation with women there. It sounds like pretty much all the gamers I know, so it's really more a gamer thing. :smalltongue:

was a simple joke. Meant no disrespect.:smallbiggrin: