Need help creating a rather... unorthodox character

[Hazrond]

So i am making a new game with a few other people where we swap off DMing each week, so as i was preparing an character to use i noticed an interesting race in MM4, the Joystealer. So after i read through it and noticed the incorporeal subtype i went and found a feat to allow me to manipulate corporeal objects and found Ghostly Grasp, then i proceeded to notice the little rule about the incorporeal subtype in the back of the book
Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature’s possession. An object that the creature relinquishes loses its incorporeal quality (and the creature loses the ability to manipulate the object). If an incorporeal creature uses a thrown weapon or a ranged weapon, the projectile becomes corporeal as soon as it is fired and can affect a corporeal target normally (no miss chance). Magic items possessed by an incorporeal creature work normally with respect to their effects on the creature or on another target. Similarly, spells cast by an incorporeal creature affect corporeal creatures normally. This means i can pick something up via ghostly grasp and bring it through walls with me if need be but i was wondering playground, what are your thoughts? any suggestions on what feats/classes/templates i should take? all i know about my stats is my charisma score is gonna be huge.

[OldTrees1]

You can wear, wield, and otherwise use corporeal items as though you were not incorporeal.
Therefore I interpret it as including, "Items wielded this way are not affected by your incorporeal subtype."

[Hazrond]

Therefore I interpret it as including, "Items wielded this way are not affected by your incorporeal subtype."

By as far as i can tell by RAW it says that i can do what i outlined, but the my real question is what classes, templates, and such i should take

[Hazrond]

Anyone? i need some recommendations for feats/classes/and templates that could be used with an incorporeal fey.

[HammeredWharf]

Which level does the campaign start at? Joystealer without any class levels is an ECL 10 character.

[RO-Red]

This is awesome. Can't wait to see what you end up going with and what others have to say.

[Hazrond]

Which level does the campaign start at? Joystealer without any class levels is an ECL 10 character.

Level 2, and im pretty sure that we are disregarding racial hit dice

[Gildedragon]

Well what do you want to do?

Rogue is great for incorporeal. Get some ghost-touch tools and manipulate traps safely. Or scout...

In either case throw/shoot weapons and then hide in the floor... rinse and repeat.

[Jeff the Green]

The problem is that joystealers are gimmick monsters. They have one attack that is ineffective against a wide variety of creatures, high ECL, and little to recommend them beyond their incorporeality.

The only thing I can think of is a dip build, and even then I have a hard time seeing it be fun. A paladin variant 2, Battledancer 1, Marshal 1, etc. to get Charisma to a bunch of things. You'll still have basically no offense and your only ability beyond your mediocre touch attack will be being hard to kill.

Have you seen the monster class (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1139.5)? I haven't looked too hard at it, but it doesn't seem too broken in either direction.

[Hazrond]

Well what do you want to do?

Rogue is great for incorporeal. Get some ghost-touch tools and manipulate traps safely. Or scout...

In either case throw/shoot weapons and then hide in the floor... rinse and repeat.

That is a possibility, they do have favored class rogue...

[HammeredWharf]

I'm not completely sure how the Cha drain works. If it applies every time you touch an opponent, you could optimize the charisma drain effect by entering a class with lots of attacks, like Totemist.

[Gildedragon]

I'm not completely sure how the Cha drain works. If it applies every time you touch an opponent, you could optimize the charisma drain effect by entering a class with lots of attacks, like Totemist.

Or heck, monk. FoB to touch AC isn't that hard, and it is a lot of attacks

[Hazrond]

The problem is that joystealers are gimmick monsters. They have one attack that is ineffective against a wide variety of creatures, high ECL, and little to recommend them beyond their incorporeality.

The only thing I can think of is a dip build, and even then I have a hard time seeing it be fun. A paladin variant 2, Battledancer 1, Marshal 1, etc. to get Charisma to a bunch of things. You'll still have basically no offense and your only ability beyond your mediocre touch attack will be being hard to kill.

Have you seen the monster class (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1139.5)? I haven't looked too hard at it, but it doesn't seem too broken in either direction.

We are at low levels so for now i shouldn't have to worry, also i have been wanting to try a completely new idea being a character who focuses completely on making others around them better, probably using levels in bard, marshal, dragon shaman, and so on. as for the monster class you posted it doesn't appeal to me very much, probably due to the fact that from the get go a bunch of the low level upsides i will have are gonna be disabled

[Hazrond]

Or heck, monk. FoB to touch AC isn't that hard, and it is a lot of attacks

thats interesting... i dont think ive ever heard monk actually mentioned with a serious tone before :smallbiggrin:
Sadly we already have a monk in the party, our usual DM is gonna be playing him since he gets to play a character now.

[Jeff the Green]

We are at low levels so for now i shouldn't have to worry, also i have been wanting to try a completely new idea being a character who focuses completely on making others around them better, probably using levels in bard, marshal, dragon shaman, and so on. as for the monster class you posted it doesn't appeal to me very much, probably due to the fact that from the get go a bunch of the low level upsides i will have are gonna be disabled

You realize that even with RHD gone, a joystealer's an ECL 5 character, right? The monster class is way better than the monster..

And, honestly, your DM(s) should absolutely not even consider allowing a joystealer's in an ECL 2 party. Most monsters won't be able to touch you, very little will be immune to or able to deal with your Charisma damage, and nothing's going to have the ability to notice you going through walls and such unless they already know you're coming (and even then most won't be able too).

At higher levels, as I alluded to in my last post, the joystealer will have a really hard time being relevant because of all that LA. It has almost no abilities worth mentioning.

And no, you can't piggyback a touch attack (except a held spell) onto an unarmed strike. It's its own action.

[Hazrond]

You realize that even with RHD gone, a joystealer's an ECL 5 character, right? The monster class is way better than the monster..

And, honestly, your DM(s) should absolutely not even consider allowing a joystealer's in an ECL 2 party. Most monsters won't be able to touch you, very little will be immune to or able to deal with your Charisma damage, and nothing's going to have the ability to notice you going through walls and such unless they already know you're coming (and even then most won't be able too).

At higher levels, as I alluded to in my last post, the joystealer will have a really hard time being relevant because of all that LA. It has almost no abilities worth mentioning.

And no, you can't piggyback a touch attack (except a held spell) onto an unarmed strike. It's its own action.

I do not forsee my DM having trouble with it since i am one of them :smalltongue:, most of the party is going to be template stacking and such so honestly im probably gonna have lower LA than most in this group unless i find something good to add on

[Jeff the Green]

Okay, everybody else is going with ignoring LA? I'd recommend trying to keep your LA similar as much as possible.

Templates I'd suggest are half-fey, unseelie fey, and gravetouched ghoul. All of them increase your Charisma. The first two drop your Constitution, but GG makes you undead. Between those and your Incorporeality you'll be immune to an enormous number of things.

For classes, I'd recommend either a Charisma-based caster or something you can piggyback your touch attack onto. For the first, Sorcerer is an obvious option, but Bard (particularly with creepification through Inspire Awe and Dirgesinger) wouldn't be bad. For the second, I'd say Totemist. You can full attack, getting iteratives with your touch attack and then using your natural weapons as secondary. You'll need to find a way to affect corporeal targets, though, either by houserule (since they're soul energy given form, it's not too much of a stretch) or a Necklace of Natural Attacks. You could also try TWF. Maybe Rogue (I think sneak attack would add on negative energy damage to your touch attack), though Swordsage could be fun.

A build that might be fun is Barbarian 1/Totemist 3/Paladin of Tyranny 4/Divine Crusader 1/Contemplative 1/Casting PrC. You do the whole pounce touch claw thing, get Charisma to saves, have a save-decreasing aura, and DMM, plus two domains you cast spontaneously from and nearly full BAB. With those templates I suggested, you'll have outstanding Charisma and really good Dexterity; be sure to get Weapon Finesse. Sneak Attack (either from a dip or Assassin's Stance) plus Craven would be good for damage.