Potions and invisibility questions

[tim01300]

Sorry for putting two different questions in one post buy I'm hoping they will be quick for you guys.

The first is about healing potions. I get that when a cleric casts a healing spell they get the spell plus their level in HP. Like cure moderate wounds for a lvl 10 cleric is 3d8+10. I always thought this was something special for spells, today a player told me that when potions are created they get made with the level of whoever made them. Which I guess I heard before but always assumed healing potions were different.... Am I wrong? Somewhere I ether read or made a house rule that potions were level 5 as far as determining duration of a spell like invisibility. Or do I need to designate every potion I drop with a level so they know how much to get.

The second is about casting spells while under the spell greater invisibility. I understand that a fireball or ray spells will give away your position. But what about spells like dominate person, haste or Eyebite? Do spells like this give away your spot?

[Jeff the Green]

Any magic item that duplicates a spell has a caster level that's used to determine effects. Normally this is the minimum needed to cast the spell (so 2*spell level-1 for cure spells), but if you're willing to pay more you can make them at a caster level up to your own. The formula for cost is in the relevant feat. (DCs are handled similarly. They're set as if cast by a caster with no DC boosters like Pell Focus and with the minimum ability score needed to cast the spell—so 10+spell level; a level 1 scroll has a DC of 1, a level 2 or has a DC of 13, etc.)
No, not unless they have an area dependent on your position like a cone or a spread centered on you. Your enemies will probably be able to tell your general position if the spell has verbal components, though. Not enough to hit you with a sword, but maybe enough to hit you with a fireball.

[Haluesen]

Pretty much what Jeff said, though I wanted to add a little detail. The potion levels are up to you in the end. I tend to make mine always assume the lowest level they could work at except under special circumstances. If you want to do the work and can remember to, you can add a level to all your potions. It's up to what work you want to do.

[Zombimode]

Pretty much what Jeff said, though I wanted to add a little detail. The potion levels are up to you in the end. I tend to make mine always assume the lowest level they could work at except under special circumstances. If you want to do the work and can remember to, you can add a level to all your potions. It's up to what work you want to do.

Do note, however, that increasing a potions caster level increases it's production cost and subsequently its price.

[Trasilor]

It is important to note, that this applies to not only potions but also any spell completion magical item - i.e. wands and scrolls.

This has the added benefit of being able to get potions/wands/scrolls on the cheap.

For instance - a 50 charge wand of Knock costs 4500 gold (2nd level spell * 3 caster level * 750gp) if made by a wizard. Same wand made by a Trapsmith cost 750 gold (1st level spell * 1 caster level * 750gp).

Regarding your second point:

Even spells that give your position do not cancel the greater invisibility. So you still have a 50% miss chance

[Spuddles]

eyebite doesnt work if people cant see you

[Zanthy1]

And fireball actually wouldn't give away your position aside from verbal components. The fireball spell is a designated spot where the fireball erupts, its not like its a shooting fireball out of your fingertip. More like a point and click, and when you click, wherever you pointed is where the fireball's center is. If you had silent spell and greater invisibility, you could have fireballs pop up and you'd be completely hidden still

[Spuddles]

And fireball actually wouldn't give away your position aside from verbal components. The fireball spell is a designated spot where the fireball erupts, its not like its a shooting fireball out of your fingertip. More like a point and click, and when you click, wherever you pointed is where the fireball's center is. If you had silent spell and greater invisibility, you could have fireballs pop up and you'd be completely hidden still

there is the bead that shoots out from your outstretched hand, to the point where you have to make attack rolls to shoot through narrow openings. so not point and click at all.

[Jeraa]

And fireball actually wouldn't give away your position aside from verbal components. The fireball spell is a designated spot where the fireball erupts, its not like its a shooting fireball out of your fingertip. More like a point and click, and when you click, wherever you pointed is where the fireball's center is. If you had silent spell and greater invisibility, you could have fireballs pop up and you'd be completely hidden still

Actually, you are shooting the fireball out of your finger. It is in the spell description.


You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

[Bronk]

And fireball actually wouldn't give away your position aside from verbal components. The fireball spell is a designated spot where the fireball erupts, its not like its a shooting fireball out of your fingertip. More like a point and click, and when you click, wherever you pointed is where the fireball's center is. If you had silent spell and greater invisibility, you could have fireballs pop up and you'd be completely hidden still

They would be able to see the glowing, pea sized bead that shoots away from your finger when you cast the spell.

[Zanthy1]

I stand corrected

[Haluesen]

Do note, however, that increasing a potions caster level increases it's production cost and subsequently its price.

Yeah but if the DM is using them as loot in a dungeon or gear for an NPC then production costs mean little. Price would matter though if the PC's intend to sell a potion or scroll they do not need.

[Bronk]

Well, most other area spells don't work that way.


Or do I need to designate every potion I drop with a level so they know how much to get

As for the potions, the idea is that the prices on the list in the DMG (and the SRD) are for potions made with the minimum caster level necessary for creation (for base classes in core, and not considering domain spells). Stick with that, and they can look it up themselves if they need to.

[Zombimode]

Yeah but if the DM is using them as loot in a dungeon or gear for an NPC then production costs mean little. Price would matter though if the PC's intend to sell a potion or scroll they do not need.

It is relevant when the DM is using the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, though.

[Haluesen]

It is relevant when the DM is using the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, though.

Hmm alright good point then. I'm not very good with those guidelines, tending to just wing it when it comes to treasure. SO far in my games it has worked out okay.

[Jeff the Green]

eyebite doesnt work if people cant see you

Where do you get that from? There's nothing I see in the spell description that'd suggest that.

[Donny_Green]

They would be able to see the glowing, pea sized bead that shoots away from your finger when you cast the spell.

You might be able to RP it out a bit though. Use slight of hand to release the fireball in a way that the enemy doesn't see.

Call it a slight of hand VS. a spot check.

Especially if the enemies engaged with members of your group they can see. Battle as a way of putting blinders on people. If you're invisible and haven't done anything offensive yet, than the enemy probably has more to worry about. And finally, a pee size bead of fire at 100+ feet isn't exactly easy to see in the first place.

as a final thought.. if you're really that concerned with hiding from enemies make sure to have silent spell ready.. Otherwise they can't see you but they can probably hear you.

[tim01300]

What about using arcane sight to see invisible creatures? The wizard in my group is basically trying to use this to get one over on all invisible casters, when I read the spell it doesn't mentioning being able to see invisibility at all. It just mentions auras around creatures, that are dependent on how powerful the magic is. So say a level 14 mage with mage armor, shield, greater invisibility and stone skin is in a room, should he be able to pinpoint the mage down within 5 ft? 10 ft? When the mage casts something should the field get larger for a moment?
The way I read the spell its more to determine how powerful someone is, or find magical traps, and to tell what specific most powerful spell is on someone. Not to take the place of the See invisibility spell...

[Zombimode]

What about using arcane sight to see invisible creatures? The wizard in my group is basically trying to use this to get one over on all invisible casters, when I read the spell it doesn't mentioning being able to see invisibility at all. It just mentions auras around creatures, that are dependent on how powerful the magic is. So say a level 14 mage with mage armor, shield, greater invisibility and stone skin is in a room, should he be able to pinpoint the mage down within 5 ft? 10 ft? When the mage casts something should the field get larger for a moment?
The way I read the spell its more to determine how powerful someone is, or find magical traps, and to tell what specific most powerful spell is on someone. Not to take the place of the See invisibility spell...

Arcane Sight reveals the location of all magical auras you have line of sight to within 120 ft. If that doesn't mean to be able to pick a 5 ft. square as the source of the aura you don't really have the location. Either you can pinpoint magical auras with Detect Magic (and subsequently with Arcane Sight) or you can't. Not being able to pinpoint with Detect Magic seems to go against the intent of the spell.

Arcane Sight does not rival See Invisibility since pinpointing an invisible creature is not the same (and usually worse) that actually seeing it - which See Invisibility obviously allows (that and being 2nd level instead of 3rd).

[Bronk]

You might be able to RP it out a bit though. Use slight of hand to release the fireball in a way that the enemy doesn't see.

I think that would work best with invisible spell or spell thematics at least, to make the bead not be glowing... or maybe just in a really well lit area.