League of Legends LX: A Song of Loss and Ire - Dance at Dragon [Archive]

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PersonMan

2014-07-10, 12:36 AM

League of Legends LX: A Song of Loss and Ire - Dance at Dragon

Welcome! You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA based on Defense of the Ancients.

If it sounds like we're speaking a foreign language in here, the glossary of LoL terms (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_terminology) can help you with that.

We maintain lists of players, sorted by server. If you are not on these lists and would like to be, please post in the thread with the following information in bold: Server (if you don't know it, it's likely the region you're in, but it's worth checking anyway), your Forum Name, and your Summoner Name. It's also a good idea to go ahead and send me a PM with such information to ensure I see it.

If no reply's been made about adding you after a day or two, first check the lists to see if you've been added. If not, feel free to post again or PM me. Any incorrectly formatted posts may be overlooked.

BR Server MORDEKAISER ES NUMERO UNO

Forum Name
Game Name

Draken
Draken Frosthand

Slayn82
Slayn82

NA Server

Forum Name
Game Name

0tt3r
0tt3r

9mm
cwcriner

Adumbration
Benefice

aethernox
joyless

Alemil
Alemil

Alter
AlterForm

Anarion
Anarion55

Anonomuss
OpticalSage

Antonok
Antonok

Arbitrarity
Arbitrarity

ArcanistSupreme
Arcanist Supreme

Archangel Yuki
Yocham

Artanis
LegacyCWAL

assassin89
nineballcirno

Astrella
Sirroelivan

Astrro
Astrro

AtwasAwamps
AtwasAwamps

Aurenthal
Estor

Averis Vol
AverisVol

Baron Corm
Baron Corm

Baxter
Thefettered

BinaryMage
BinaryMage

Bliss Authority
Companion N00b

Blueiji
Blueiji

BobVosh
BobVosh -or- VoshBob

Bookboy
Keledrath

Brother Oni
MarineHK4861

Caffeine
excesscaffeine

Caradryan
Ying Quliang

CarpeGuitarrem
CarpeGuitarrem

Castleraven
Castleraven

cdstephens
cdstephens

Chess435
Chess435

Copacetic
Azbu

Creed
Moarzed

CrnvorousMeece
CarnivorousMeece

Croverus
Croverus

Cute_Riolu
Cute Riolu

Dallas-Dakota
MustacheMan

Dante & Vergil
Raphiezar

Darius Macab
Hawkfrost000

Darth Mario
Darth Mario

Daverin
Daverin

Demotivated
Demotivated

Dentrag2
Callinectes

dgnslyr
GANKERLagann

Dichotomy
Kaellin

Dire Ferret
Guvna Kit Kit

Djinn in Tonic
The Djinn

Dogmantra
Dogmantra

Don Julio Anejo
Don Julio Anejo

douglas
DouglasM

Doxkid
Doxkid

Dragonus45
Dragonus45

Drager0
Drager0

Dragor
Supernaturalist

Draken
Draken Frosthand

DrakeRaids
DrakeRaids057

Dralnu
TomerIsHot

Drizztfan24
Drizztfan24

dukexx
JacksonHicks

Duos
DapperGuy

Dusk Eclipse
DuskShadow

efdf
efdf

EifieFlare
EifieFlare

Elagune
Chopstyx

Eldariel
Elealar

EndlessWrath
Andurin

Epicfaillol
Ether Master

Errandir
Ramses III

EternalMelon
EternalMelon

faith
Ferrovax101

FantomFang
FantomFang

Farix
Jiin in Tin

Faulty
FaultyClockwork

Fawkes
Count Fawkes

FeverFox
Alcopop

Firedaemon33
Firedaemon33

fjolnir
fjolnir

Flagpole
Flagpole

Flarowon
Kruin Avabruc

Flechair
Master Zealot

FleshrakerAbuse
Archdruid21

Folytopo
Folytopo

Forrestfire
Forrestfire15

Frankelshtein
McFinkelstein

Fredaintdead
Fredthefighter

Freudianship
LeiteaSalk

Gallus
Anechois

Geigan
Geigan

Giant Panda
Le Shirrif

gimliggamer
Wizard Warlock

Gizladlo
Gizladlo

glemis
glemis

Godskook
Bethor Kookalian

Gourtox
Gourtox

Gruffard
Gruffard

Grytorm

HalfTangible
HalfTangible

hamiltond465
Duodecimus

Hanuman
HanumanXoO

Happy Gravity
Deimosaur

Hatevah
Hatevah

heronbpv
Avan

Holocron Coder
Holocron

Hullabaloo
Sosrey

Incomp
Incomp

InyutheBeatIs
Believe Inyu

Istari
IstariK

Ivellius
Ivellius

Jamin
CapZich

JKTrickster
ZenTrickster

Joran
Jorana

KaizoMK
KaizoMK

Kara Kuro
RaptorKitty

Kciemir
Ghostface Ki11ah

Kettle
Kettle747

king.com
kingcom

Kinslayer
HaunterReqiuem

Kirbot
Kirbot

kmchii
kmchii

knightMARE
Sir Wiffleston

Kopaka
Portent

Kotarus
Adrameleck

Kwazey
Kwazey

Lansky
Blurbie

Laudandus
Laudandus

LegoShrimp
LegoShrimp

LightWraith
TheLightWraith

Lil Shiro
Mizz Mitchell

litewarior
litewarior

Lonely Tylenol
If I Had a Hifi

Lord_Gareth
Prince of Knives

Lord Generic
Lord Generic

LordShotGun
LordShotGun

LostEnder
LostEnder

Low-Key
TheFuzziestBear

Lunix Vandal
Lunix Vandal

lvl 1 sharnian
StarryEagle

Lyrakien
Lyrakien

Lyxie
Lyxie

Mabn
Gafslicher

Maeglin_Dubh
Tycho Velius

Makensha
Jarbis

MammonAzrael
MammonAzrael

Manticoran
Manticoran

Maryring
Skilvrel

MasatoHyuga
MasatoHyuga

Master_Rahl22
Goltoth

master256
QWERTYSTOP

Math_Mage
Mathmage

Mathematicae
Mathematicae

Mattarias, King.
Mattarias

Malmagor Andrigal
Madmal

Maxios
Maxios20

McCerberus
MCerberus

McDougal
McDouggal

Meatshield#236
Meatshield236

Merellis
Merellis

Mike_the_Mystic
Kraemer

Milskidasith
Milskidasith

Mindfreak586
Mindfreak586

Mirrinus
Parallaxal

Miscast_Mage
MiscastMage

Moklok
KokoBWare

Mr. Mud
Proposal

mrcarter11
Mrcarter11

mrzomby
mrzomby

Mtg_player_zach
MtgPlayerZach

Mushroom Ninja
Mushroom Ninja

Mutant Bunny
WhollySpart

Nadevoc
Xenik

Nanoblack
IwearSILLYhats

Nargan
Naryuk

Necroticplague
Yamidamian

Neoseanster
Neoseanster

NeoVid
NeoVid

Nerocite
Nerocite

neXianXavia
neXianXavia

Ninja_Grand
Ninja_Grand

NoobForHire
Taishar Malkier

NotAEvilToaster
NeonPie

oblivion6
warcrown10

Octopus Jack
Thalric

Olinser
Olinser

One Tin Soldier
beelzebubcbgptch

Otomodachi
Cyfarfod

Outsideheaven
Outsideheaven

Perkinz
Perkinz

PersonMan
Nsev

Pie Guy
Qwazes

pilvento
Kandrass

PhantomFox
PhantomFox7

PhoeKun
PhoeKun

Pocal
Pocalem

Poison Fish
Baron Von Flib

Postmodernist
Postmodernist

Protecar
Godreig

Protecar
Atk

Psychotic
SquirrelFish

Qaera
Qaera

ragingrage
ragingrage

Raistlin1040
Sanevale

Rama
Nargus

Raroy
setokaibasmt

RationalGoblin
AtillathePun

Raven444
Iskandarl

Reinboom
Riot Reinboom

Raveypoos
Rhaviewoos

recklessabaddon
recklessabaddon

revolver kobold
A Magic Kobold

Reynard
Duke Reynington

Ryomasa
Ryomasa

Sallera
Sallera

SanguisAevum
Sanguis Aevum

Saveducks
ElGrandisimo

Serpentine
Lady Serpentine

Shades of Gray
PierreAbelard

shadowwalker64
shadowwalker65

Shadowleaf
Shadowdancing

Shadow Lord
ShadowLordgiantitp

Shadowy
DJPON3Vinyl

Samshiir
Samshiir

ShortOne
LittlePoppy

SidCoolios
Irazel

Silverraptor
Silverraptor

Siosilvar
Siosilvar

Sircarp
Sircarp

SirSigfried
LibertarianSDR

Slash_712
Catfud

???????
sofawall

sonofzeal
sonofzeal

St. Viers
St.Viers

Starfols
Starfols

Starswords
Starswords

SuperPanda
Lokilar

TalonDemonKing
TalonDemonKing

TechnOkami
TechnOkami

Temotei
Temotei221

Terazul
Allegretto

term1nally s1ck
silverdevilboy

tesla_pasta
generictownsman

TheAmishPirate
TheAmishPirate

Thanatos 51-50
Thanatos Erebus

The_Ditto
Ditto11

The_Fiery_Tower
TFT Supports

TheGlowingRogue
I Glow In Dark

Themage
AFK

Thethan
Thethan

The Hellbug
hellbug22

The Rabbler
Paco H Jones

The Shadowmind
The Shadowmind

The Valiant Turtle
Valiant Turtle

Thrantar
Thrantar

Thrawn183
Thrawnyboy

throtecutter
throtecutter

toasty
toastymow

Thomas Cadrew
DecadentPheonix

Tono
Tono Chou

Treayn
Treayn

tribble
Smallbluedot

Tychris1
Tychris1

u-gotNOgame
UGNG -or- Sirius Amory

userpay
userpay

Vauron
Vauron

Volatar
The Volatar

Vwulf DeMarcus
NinjaXeq

wandiya
wandiya

Wolf_Haley
Jon Talbain

Winterwind
DreamingHeart

Winthur
Seyruun

WyvernLord
WyvernThornKing

woodzyowl
Woodzyowl

XaioTie
Tiefernan

Zabbarot
Zabbarot

Zeful
Zeful

ZeltArruin
ZeltArruin

Zemro
Shivic

ZeroNumerous
ZeroNumerous

Zeteni
Zeteni

Zinc
El Jaun Zinco

zmasterofjersey
GhosTazer

zolga
TheZolga

EU Server--West

Forum Name
Game Name

Acromos
Crannoch

Adumbration
Adumbration

Anonomuss
Anonomuss

Azimov
Sidhe de Athame

Brother Oni
MarineHK4861

Cheers
Sam vds

Cyborg Mage
Cyborg Mage98

Eldariel
Elealar

Even Human
SlyGuyMcFly

Gauntlet
Isva

GreenSerpent
Darius or Draven

HalfDragonCube
giantmudkip

fishjam
fishjam

Krazzman
Viskerin

Maryring
Skilvrel

Maxymiuk
Maxymiuk

Mc. Lovin
B1GB1RDB4G3L

Miscast_Mage
MiscastMage

monkeyboyinc
monkeyboyinc

Morph Bark
Morpheus Bob

Nargan
Naryuk

Outsideheaven
Outsideheaven

PersonMan
Scarge

Reb46
Reb46

Reynard
Duke Reyn

Runhidesurvive
Jmack10

Saph
StarSaph

Socratov
Mbutu

shadowwalker64
shadowwalker64

Talesin
Fridgecake

term1nally s1ck
Silverdevilboy

That'd_be_me
AntiLocke

TheGeckoKing
Alpharis Omega

Volatar
VolatarUK

Winterwind
DreamingHeart

Ziren
Zirenoid

zolga
MasterZolga

EU Server--Unspecified

Forum Name
Game Name

Abakus
Terpfen

Alemil
Alemil

Ayra
Ayramatao

Darwin
DarwinBeGood

Endoperez
Endoperez

Heliomance
Sidhe de Grian

Kurrel
GrinningOni

littlebottom
Littlebottom

lord_khaine
Lord_khaine

Narazil
Narazil

Narkis
Narkis

Penthar
Malderon

Raviepoos
Skittles Unicorn

Shadowleaf
AncientPharma

Voidhawk
Sidhe ne Awk

Zefir
Einerwie

Zombywoof
Zombywoof

LA North Server

Forum Name
Game Name

Dusk Eclipse
DuskSoul

UrashimaJamez
UrashimaJamez

SEA Server

Forum Name
Game Name

[tr]
abadguy
[td] Smite Thy Enemy

Oceanic Server

Forum Name
Game Name

Red Rubber Band
HeWhoIsJohn

Turkey (TR) Server

Forum Name
Game Name

Eloel
[unknown]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a Mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Legoshrimp (http://www.twitch.tv/legoshrimp)
McDouggal (http://www.twitch.tv/McDouggal)
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
The Fiery Tower (http://www.twitch.tv/the_fiery_tower)

GUIDES & CHAMPION OVERVIEWS
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
Champion Introductions:
Thanks to Eldariel, Playgrounders in Thread XLV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003) wrote blurbs to introduce players to their favorite champions. Yay.
Ahri (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14981225&postcount=520) by SlyGuyMcFly
Alistar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15079170&postcount=297) by Joran
Amumu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14991206&postcount=727) by Ivellius
Anivia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971268&postcount=332) by Eldariel
Annie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972307&postcount=366) by endoperez
Caitlyn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973242&postcount=375) by McDougal
Cho'Gath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973137&postcount=374) by Happy Gravity
Janna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976717&postcount=424) by Winthur
Fizz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971765&postcount=345) by PersonMan
Hecarim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973331&postcount=377) by Arbitrarity
Irelia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14980231&postcount=502) by aethernox
Kennen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973033&postcount=372) by Anarion
LeBlanc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15049895&postcount=15) by Miscast_Mage
Lulu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975266&postcount=413) by Kris on a Stick
Nasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971542&postcount=340) by TheShrike
Nocturne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15057985&postcount=97) by Darius Macab
Olaf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972935&postcount=371) by dgnslyr
Rengar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14974241&postcount=387) by ChaosOS
Singed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976931&postcount=427) by QWERTSTOP
Skarner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14984458&postcount=591) by TechnOkami
Sona (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971676&postcount=344) by Forrestfire
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975078&postcount=409) by Math_Mage
Vi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976557&postcount=423) by Pherinos
Zyra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14982344&postcount=541) by The Fiery Tower

General Guides:
A General Guide to Support (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32), by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champion Guides:
Be warned. These guides are, by and large, outdated. Much of the information referenced in these guides has been made obsolete as a result of League's natural patch cycle and changes from Season to Season. If you're looking for information on a champion, you'll have better luck at SoloMid.net (http://solomid.net/guides.php?champ=&sort=2&display=4&x=98&y=9) or LolPro.com (http://LoLPro.com). Alternatively, ask the thread!
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
Videos*
Raise your ELO MMR by 400 points with these easy tricks! Or just have a good time.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
Art in its purest form, surely.LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

PREVIOUS THREADS
Behold the discussions of the past!

League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353629-League-of-Legends-LIX-Ice-Cream-Stamps-and-Lorn)
League of Legends LVIII: URFworld (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17244032&postcount=1)
League of Legends LVII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Feast for Cho (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331764-League-of-Legends-LVII-A-Song-of-Loss-and-Ire-A-Feast-for-Cho)
League of Legends lVI: ME BRO! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325851)
League of Legends LV: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Storm of Wards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319175)
League of Legends: We will LIV, they will die (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312431)
League of Legends LIII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Clash of Pings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307325)
League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302528)
League of Legends LI: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Game of Throws (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298396)
League of Legends L: Lucian's Lost Love's Luxurious Lantern Lodge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293376)
League of Legends XLIX: Why are there snowballs in a jungle? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289027)
League of Legends XLVIII: A Broken Spine is Just a Twist of Fate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15339231#post15339231)
League of Legends XLVII: Legend of Poro - Retcons on Ice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282669)
League of Legends XLVI: Everybody now comes from Freljord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279408)
League of Legends XLV: They ruined the King AND his blade! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003)
League of Legends XLIV: *SQUAWK* Who's there? *SQUAWK* League of Legends XLIV who? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273412)
League of Legends XLIII: Now with 100% more Leagues. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270068)
League of Legends XLII: I Hope The New Champ Is Vi-able (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266201)
League of Legends XLI: Fish Are Friends, Not Food (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263722)
League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'till Morello Gets Gold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261213)
League of Legends XXXIX: Harrowing in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14079780#post14079780)
League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13921041)
League of Legends XXXVII: Thread Name Delayed for Further Testing on PBE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253343)
League of Legends XXXVI: Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250948)
League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248760)
League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
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League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
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League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
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League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
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League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

TechnOkami

2014-07-10, 02:06 AM

Thought of these for The Winds of Winter.

The Skins of Winners
The Skins of Winter (lol Snowdown skins)

Still not sure about A Dream of Spring.

Antonok

2014-07-10, 06:10 AM

Still not sure about A Dream of Spring.

A Heimer of Dongers?

Also Zyra is my new waifu. And probably my best bet of getting out of bronze this season.

Lord_Gareth

2014-07-10, 06:58 AM

Doin' it for the checkmark next to thread name.

I am sadly League-disabled for the near future.

Forrestfire

2014-07-10, 08:12 AM

I like the wins of winthur, honestly.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-10, 08:17 AM

Just posting to get a bookmark and to say I'm not sure yet which thread tittle I like the most right now.

Anarion

2014-07-10, 09:49 AM

I like the wins of winthur, honestly.

It's not bad, but I don't know if anybody will get it. I'm not really in favor of thread titles with specific names of posters. Too much in joke, not enough pun.

Recaiden

2014-07-10, 10:24 AM

I like the wins of winthur, honestly.

I also like it. The pun is a bit limited, but it sounds more like the book title, thanks to the two softened stops, than any other. Plus the last thread game us precedent for putting specific posters in the title. :smalltongue:
And whatever we come up with is better than thread 18 was.

So how about that new match history with the death map? Pretty great. Wonder if it will spur them to fix the blue side problem any faster.

TechnOkami

2014-07-10, 10:34 AM

I'm an idiot.

"The Orbs of Winter"

Ionbound

2014-07-10, 10:47 AM

So, I've decided to update the table to the new code. I'm working on the NA server first, and it's in the pipes, so please wait warmly for the full update.

Artanis

2014-07-10, 11:26 AM

So...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LfnNNmXh28

The Moscow 5 is down to 2, I guess.

Anarion

2014-07-10, 11:31 AM

So how about that new match history with the death map? Pretty great. Wonder if it will spur them to fix the blue side problem any faster.

I'm trying to think about the best thing to learn from it. I think the most valuable statistic is the gold advantage graphed across game duration. It's a very good overall indicator of how your team was doing at various points and probably one of the better ways to judge whether something was, indeed, "worth." It might also help with future planning. Like "Oh wow, I was 0/3, but our team was ahead in gold. If that happens again, I should probably roam to back up my fed bot lane so we can take turrets and they don't get 2v4ed and lose their snowball."

I'm wondering if someone can write a tool that aggregates the deathmaps. I would bet that there's a strong correlation between certain spots on the map and winning fights for one or the other team that exists independently of team comps.

JKTrickster

2014-07-10, 12:55 PM

Anarion

2014-07-10, 12:59 PM

Is it really true that Blue Side is that much better than Purple Side?

I understand that it is slightly better to be on Blue side, but is this advantage good enough that influences the statistics of games? E.g. Does Blue Side win that much more than Purple Side?

Yes, the blue side really has an advantage.
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-red-blue-statistics-win-rate/

Olinser

2014-07-10, 01:01 PM

Is it really true that Blue Side is that much better than Purple Side?

I understand that it is slightly better to be on Blue side, but is this advantage good enough that influences the statistics of games? E.g. Does Blue Side win that much more than Purple Side?

Not 'much' more, but there is a statistically significant advantage to being Blue side. We're talking a few percentage points here.

In fact, if you look at the actual numerical MMR of games, in an effort to counteract this, the current Riot matchmaking actually gives a concrete MMR advantage to purple side.

Last time I saw somebody compile a large sampling of games blue side had about a 55% win rate, purple side 45%. I have not seen data since the changes to top lane and inclusion of the wight camp, though.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-10, 01:08 PM

What do you mean by MMR advantage? Does that means that if you are playing on the Purple side the other players on your teams should have slightly better MMR and thus in theory be stronger?

Reinboom

2014-07-10, 01:10 PM

What do you mean by MMR advantage? Does that means that if you are playing on the Purple side the other players on your teams should have slightly better MMR and thus in theory be stronger?

Basically, though the model of "The players on blue side have lower MMR as a team than yours" would be more fitting.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-10, 01:15 PM

I see... don't know how to feel since I usually end up playing the purple side more often or at least it seems that way (selection bias and all that stuff, I'll try to make an actual tally from now on).

Artanis

2014-07-10, 01:24 PM

Yes, the blue side really has an advantage.
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-red-blue-statistics-win-rate/
I notice that on those graphs, Blue has the exact same amount of first towers as Red has first dragons, and vice versa. To me, that implies that something is pushing Red into making the decision to trade dragon for tower, though I don't know what, exactly, that is.

It'd be interesting to see blind pick vs. draft pick statistics, to see the effect that draft order has on it as opposed to just map layout.

PersonMan

2014-07-10, 02:17 PM

So, I've decided to update the table to the new code. I'm working on the NA server first, and it's in the pipes, so please wait warmly for the full update.

You don't need to do it by hand or anything; I'm doing it with a converter program now that I've been reminded of that issue.

Ionbound

2014-07-10, 02:24 PM

Alright, cool. I was actually doing it by hand, but coding makes life so much easier...Gotta remember to learn how to do that at some point.

Math_Mage

2014-07-10, 02:52 PM

What table?

I notice that on those graphs, Blue has the exact same amount of first towers as Red has first dragons, and vice versa. To me, that implies that something is pushing Red into making the decision to trade dragon for tower, though I don't know what, exactly, that is.

It'd be interesting to see blind pick vs. draft pick statistics, to see the effect that draft order has on it as opposed to just map layout.
It's a lot easier to gank top as blue team, so...

Anarion

2014-07-10, 02:56 PM

I notice that on those graphs, Blue has the exact same amount of first towers as Red has first dragons, and vice versa. To me, that implies that something is pushing Red into making the decision to trade dragon for tower, though I don't know what, exactly, that is.

It'd be interesting to see blind pick vs. draft pick statistics, to see the effect that draft order has on it as opposed to just map layout.

Dragon pit opens to red side.

Olinser

2014-07-10, 03:03 PM

EU LCS

DAT BLITZ YO

Heh heh. But in all seriousness, I like seeing players take different champions sometimes. And somebody like Blitz has the capability to just change the entire dynamic of how teams fight and push.

Also, Gragas continues to be taken top.

Edit:

Also, theatre of the absurd at the end of the game.

For a good 20-30 seconds, both teams were on the WRONG SIDE of mid lane. Blue is on purple side, purple is on blue side, neither team really wants to engage, but neither of them can just walk away.

PersonMan

2014-07-10, 03:33 PM

Alright, cool. I was actually doing it by hand, but coding makes life so much easier...Gotta remember to learn how to do that at some point.

I didn't make it, just used the one someone posted in Board/Forum Issues a while ago. It's in my sig for good reason. :smalltongue:

What table?

Player/Server tables.

Artanis

2014-07-10, 05:00 PM

Anarion

2014-07-10, 06:01 PM

Another thing that occurs to me: having any champions that are automatic perma-bans (like Kassadin is, or at least was during spring) will hurt Red side because they effectively remove a ban that could otherwise target the opposing team.

Well, if there is only one OP champ it's sort of bad. In almost all cases though, there are two or more important picks, so that balances out.

I really think it's the map asymmetries and the fact that's utsca bit harder to see below you than above you that are the main causes.

Antonok

2014-07-10, 06:35 PM

Heads up to skin code owners! (http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1805611) If I'm reading this right, they're doing away with skin codes (As of 7/23/2014). You will no longer be able to redeem them and have to contact support with proof of ownership (send them a picture of the card with the code and your summoner name) to get any current codes redeemed if they don't work in client shop.

Edit: Ok to clarify a bit, You need to get any codes redeemed BEFORE said date, after that date the codes will not be able to be redeemed period.

Artanis

2014-07-10, 06:46 PM

Well, if there is only one OP champ it's sort of bad. In almost all cases though, there are two or more important picks, so that balances out.

I really think it's the map asymmetries and the fact that's utsca bit harder to see below you than above you that are the main causes.
That's the thing: during spring split (when the linked data was taken), Kassadin was largely a ban-or-blue-wins champion. That's why I mentioned wanting to see blind pick stats as well.

Eldariel

2014-07-10, 06:57 PM

I don't usually play Blind Pick, is it always supposed to be like this?
http://i.imgur.com/DTQuXVL.jpg

For the record, that's Heimer top, me mid, Shaco/Brand bot & Ultimate Bravery (http://puu.sh/a5SrF/6611f6d6ca.jpg) Morgana.

ex cathedra

2014-07-10, 07:10 PM

sonofzeal

2014-07-10, 07:42 PM

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if Purple got first-pick / first-ban. Would that affect the statistics meaningfully?

ex cathedra

2014-07-10, 07:44 PM

how advantageous it is to have first pick (if/when it's advantageous at all) is highly dependent on both the current patch and the teams in question.

sonofzeal

2014-07-10, 10:13 PM

how advantageous it is to have first pick (if/when it's advantageous at all) is highly dependent on both the current patch and the teams in question.

Well, winning and losing in general is highly dependent on the current patch and the teams in question. I'm just curious as to whether that's a contributing factor in these aggregate statistics.

Qwertystop

2014-07-10, 10:21 PM

Bug report: Malphite's Brutal Strikes acts as an autoattack reset, but only in the part of the animation before damage is dealt.

I've known about this one for a while but didn't realize it was a bug.

Anarion

2014-07-10, 10:48 PM

Qwertystop

2014-07-10, 10:51 PM

So...does that mean the Leona third attack from Q thing is a bug too?

Um. Don't think so. For clarification - If you cast Malphite's W while in your autoattack animation, before damage is dealt, it acts as an autoattack reset. If you cast Malphite's W while in your autoattack animation, after damage is dealt, it does not. I'm not sure what happens for the bit in between where you're just standing there, because I can't time it in my head that precisely to know whether it's extended or not.

ex cathedra

2014-07-10, 10:52 PM

So...does that mean the Leona third attack from Q thing is a bug too?

i mean, afaik there are zero existent mechanics that explain a double-auto-reset and it isn't mentioned as part of the tooltip, so i don't really know what else it could have ever been

Forum Explorer

2014-07-11, 04:03 AM

Not 'much' more, but there is a statistically significant advantage to being Blue side. We're talking a few percentage points here.

In fact, if you look at the actual numerical MMR of games, in an effort to counteract this, the current Riot matchmaking actually gives a concrete MMR advantage to purple side.

Last time I saw somebody compile a large sampling of games blue side had about a 55% win rate, purple side 45%. I have not seen data since the changes to top lane and inclusion of the wight camp, though.

Huh that's weird.

Now someone said it's easier to gank top as blue then as purple, which is the opposite of my experience in game. I always find top a lot easier to gank as purple, and bot easier to gank as blue.

Also my sucking at Tristana continues with me getting utterly murdered last time I tried by the enemy Vayne.

NineThePuma

2014-07-11, 04:06 AM

thracian

2014-07-11, 05:14 AM

Leona third auto is actually an animation cancel. Her Q has a fairly long 'wind down' animation time, despite having no animation; this was put in place to stop the third auto from being so obvious, I figure.

Uh, that's demonstrably false. When Withered (started the AA-Q-AA combo at 0.5 ASpd, so the third auto was at lower ASpd), I was able to get three hits within about 1.3 seconds (animations are really slow when your ASpd is that low). If it was just an animation cancel, it would not reset her attack cooldown to let me get the third hit.

efdf

2014-07-11, 07:09 AM

That's the thing: during spring split (when the linked data was taken), Kassadin was largely a ban-or-blue-wins champion. That's why I mentioned wanting to see blind pick stats as well.

blue side maintains an advantage in blind pick and in ARAM even

I don't usually play Blind Pick, is it always supposed to be like this?
http://i.imgur.com/DTQuXVL.jpg

For the record, that's Heimer top, me mid, Shaco/Brand bot & Ultimate Bravery (http://puu.sh/a5SrF/6611f6d6ca.jpg) Morgana.

yeah. i haven't played a blind pick not filled with trolls in a very long time

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-11, 07:32 AM

blue side maintains an advantage in blind pick and in ARAM even

I assume it's due to the decreased field of vision and difficulty aiming skillshots that Purple/Red Side gets, then. I'd wonder if it changes on on Treeline and Dominion, since those particular maps are left to right oriented, rather than bottom-left to top-right, like SR and HA.

I am curious that, for the new SR, though they did flatten the camera angle to alleviate this somewhat, they didn't choose to turn the map 45 degrees to create a left to right map same as Treeline.

Antonok

2014-07-11, 08:18 AM

I am curious that, for the new SR, though they did flatten the camera angle to alleviate this somewhat, they didn't choose to turn the map 45 degrees to create a left to right map same as Treeline.

No they did not. Its the same angle as it is now.

Anarion

2014-07-11, 08:34 AM

Huh that's weird.

Now someone said it's easier to gank top as blue then as purple, which is the opposite of my experience in game. I always find top a lot easier to gank as purple, and bot easier to gank as blue.

The blue jungler has three approach routes. They can lane gank, river gank, or go into red side jungle and come in via tribush, bypassing a river bush ward. The red jungler only has two routes: lane and river.

Also my sucking at Tristana continues with me getting utterly murdered last time I tried by the enemy Vayne.

If you suck at trading, do E+auto and back off instead of auto+E+auto. You'll still do most of your damage, Vayne won't get her silver bolts proc.

Also, if you're going to play Tristana, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to take her into a custom and just cs practice for a couple games. Even the pros miss cs with her due to the difficulty of her aoe. You need to get to the point where you know how to properly clear a wave with her so that you don't fall behind without your opponent even doing anything.

No they did not. Its the same angle as it is now.

Not exactly. They flattened it out and made it a bit more symmetrical, then pulled back the camera, resulting in a view that covers the same field of vision overall. Or something like that.

efdf

2014-07-11, 09:34 AM

I assume it's due to the decreased field of vision and difficulty aiming skillshots that Purple/Red Side gets, then. I'd wonder if it changes on on Treeline and Dominion, since those particular maps are left to right oriented, rather than bottom-left to top-right, like SR and HA.

I am curious that, for the new SR, though they did flatten the camera angle to alleviate this somewhat, they didn't choose to turn the map 45 degrees to create a left to right map same as Treeline.

Treeline has no blue side advantage. Not sure about Dominion.

Olinser

2014-07-11, 09:53 AM

The blue jungler has three approach routes. They can lane gank, river gank, or go into red side jungle and come in via tribush, bypassing a river bush ward. The red jungler only has two routes: lane and river.

If you suck at trading, do E+auto and back off instead of auto+E+auto. You'll still do most of your damage, Vayne won't get her silver bolts proc.

Also, if you're going to play Tristana, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to take her into a custom and just cs practice for a couple games. Even the pros miss cs with her due to the difficulty of her aoe. You need to get to the point where you know how to properly clear a wave with her so that you don't fall behind without your opponent even doing anything.

Not exactly. They flattened it out and made it a bit more symmetrical, then pulled back the camera, resulting in a view that covers the same field of vision overall. Or something like that.

Uh, NO? Purple side has the exact 3 options. Lane gank, river gank, tribush gank. In fact, purple side has the better options, because, while it is a bit harder to get to it unseen, their tribush gank is significantly safer and more likely to actually result in a kill. The difference being a blue side (as in, executed by the purple team) tribush gank doesn't have to go past the turret (or if you're bad at cutting the corner only take 1 shot). Whereas a purple side (as in, executed by the blue team) tribush gank means you're either diving the turret or people behind the turret, but you aren't likely to get a good lane gank out of it.

Red side actually has an EASIER time ganking, because any jungler with a wall jump (Lee Sin, J4, or anybody can flash if you're feeling really twitchy) can get straight from dragon pit into the blue tribush, and if the blue bot is anywhere up the lane they CANNOT get past you without a fight.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-11, 10:37 AM

Anarion

2014-07-11, 10:48 AM

Are we talking about ganking top or ganking bot? This is important. The original point was about ganking top, which Anarion is addressing. If you are discussing ganking bot you are discussing the wrong thing.

This thing. I was talking about top lane tribush.

The distinction is that in top lane, if you're the red side jungler, you either lane gank or your path takes you past the river bush. I suppose you could come behind the blue side top turret for a dive by wall jumping past the wraith, but that's risky as hell and the midlaner could collapse on you and kill you.

The blue side jungler has that extra opening that comes out in front of the top red turret, making it a great way to get behind people.

Artanis

2014-07-11, 11:08 AM

This thing. I was talking about top lane tribush.

The distinction is that in top lane, if you're the red side jungler, you either lane gank or your path takes you past the river bush. I suppose you could come behind the blue side top turret for a dive by wall jumping past the wraith, but that's risky as hell and the midlaner could collapse on you and kill you.

The blue side jungler has that extra opening that comes out in front of the top red turret, making it a great way to get behind people.
*gears turning in head*

Geography giving Blue an easier time ganking top means that geography would give Red an easier time ganking bot...which would in turn give Red an easier time gaining early Dragon control, and thus a huge temptation to go for the first Dragon. But if taking Dragon comes with giving up a turret (which the numbers seem to imply is almost - or even entirely - always the case), AND if such a trade benefits the turret-killer more than the Dragon-killers, then yeah, that would definitely be a factor in Blue's favor. The biggest way I can think of to counter that advantage as Red side is simply not to do Dragon attempts that could lead to giving up turrets in exchange (say by using a bot gank to push or something?), but that's obviously easier said than done.

Of course, all this is only if geography really does have such an effect, which is a debate that I'll leave to people who, unlike me, are at levels where there's more than 0.5 average junglers per game :smallwink:

Anarion

2014-07-11, 11:29 AM

*gears turning in head*

Geography giving Blue an easier time ganking top means that geography would give Red an easier time ganking bot...which would in turn give Red an easier time gaining early Dragon control, and thus a huge temptation to go for the first Dragon. But if taking Dragon comes with giving up a turret (which the numbers seem to imply is almost - or even entirely - always the case), AND if such a trade benefits the turret-killer more than the Dragon-killers, then yeah, that would definitely be a factor in Blue's favor. The biggest way I can think of to counter that advantage as Red side is simply not to do Dragon attempts that could lead to giving up turrets in exchange (say by using a bot gank to push or something?), but that's obviously easier said than done.

Of course, all this is only if geography really does have such an effect, which is a debate that I'll leave to people who, unlike me, are at levels where there's more than 0.5 average junglers per game :smallwink:

It definitely has some effect. The vision limitations are most pronounced. The difference between (relative) safety with a single ward vs. with two wards is a big deal.

I would also suggest that bot lane geography doesn't evenly balance out. 3v2 ganks where you're in that close to turret are a lot more dangerous than 2v1 ganks doing the same.

Artanis

2014-07-11, 02:59 PM

It definitely has some effect.
I'll have to take your word for it. It's only been in the last couple dozen games that I've had teammates actually call jungle on a regular basis :smallwink:

I would also suggest that bot lane geography doesn't evenly balance out. 3v2 ganks where you're in that close to turret are a lot more dangerous than 2v1 ganks doing the same.
True. I more meant when considering just the geography, setting aside other factors like duo lanes being harder to gank. Like if there was a lane swap or something that resulted in both teams having a potential 2v1 target.

As a semi-related aside, I'm finding this entire discussion fascinating. Coming from a Blizzard RTS background has given me an appreciation for just how much map layout can affect game balance, so I've always wondered about it in LoL. In a game like LoL, being mirrored would make the map itself balanced, but SR is not exactly mirrored since Dragon and Baron are nowhere near equivalent. :smallsmile:

Qwertystop

2014-07-11, 03:31 PM

As a semi-related aside, I'm finding this entire discussion fascinating. Coming from a Blizzard RTS background has given me an appreciation for just how much map layout can affect game balance, so I've always wondered about it in LoL. In a game like LoL, being mirrored would make the map itself balanced, but SR is not exactly mirrored since Dragon and Baron are nowhere near equivalent. :smallsmile:

Extra Credits did a thing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUWx0I5i2Jw&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5CH8BA8XcqReieXLFf4afI0&index=3) on SR in their Design Club secondary-show.

TechnOkami

2014-07-11, 03:42 PM

Extra Credits did a thing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUWx0I5i2Jw&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5CH8BA8XcqReieXLFf4afI0&index=3) on SR in their Design Club secondary-show.

An interesting watch.

Math_Mage

2014-07-11, 04:59 PM

Huh that's weird.

Now someone said it's easier to gank top as blue then as purple, which is the opposite of my experience in game. I always find top a lot easier to gank as purple, and bot easier to gank as blue.
If you always gank a pushed lane through the river, this will be the case. But a neutral top lane is easier to sandwich as blue via the enemy jungle. The equivalent for purple requires towerdiving.

McDouggal

2014-07-11, 10:46 PM

Predictions for week 8 of the NA LCS

Complexity loses to Curse. Curse will take the game and just run away with it.

Cloud9 over Evil Geniuses. I think that EG is the new bottomfeeder, rather than Complexity.

CLG over TSM. BECAUSE I'M A CLG FAN DARNIT! Also, the last match between them was a massive WTF moment for the fanbase of CLG. It looked like there wasn't a lot of talking and preparation for it ahead of time.

Dignitas beats LMQ, in keeping with their Saturday dominance.

Day 2

Curse over EG. No question. EG is on fire, Curse is on fire. Fun fact - if I'm correct about this, Curse will be 5-0 in their last 5.

Dignitas drops to CLG. Dig has lately performed poorly on day 2's, and in both of these games so far, Dignitas seemingly hasn't been able to impose their game plan.

Cloud 9 over TSM. Match has historically gone this way.

LMQ drops to Complexity. The Giant Killers further cement their reputation.

End result for the week:

CLG: 2-0
C9: 2-0
CoL: 1-1
Curse: 2-0
Dig: 1-1
EG: 0-2
LMQ: 0-2
TSM: 0-2

Forum Explorer

2014-07-12, 12:52 AM

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-12, 12:01 PM

Fiora gets a mention in Phylol's solo queue tier list is this heaven?

Math_Mage

2014-07-12, 12:05 PM

LMQ 0-2 on the week? No way. If they lose to Dignitas on day 1, they'll crush Complexity day 2 to make up for it.

ex cathedra

2014-07-12, 12:13 PM

RIP CJ

Fiora gets a mention in Phylol's solo queue tier list is this heaven?
who is phylol...

mrcarter11

2014-07-12, 01:58 PM

RIP CJ

So arrows more than likely just lucked their way into the finals of Summer. And SKT had a 2/3 chance to make it to the semi's, and instead pull the one team that will likely destroy them in the quarters,, Today is a sad ****ing day.

Artanis

2014-07-12, 07:04 PM

Well. That was a thing. Anybody want to put odds on LMQ making it to worlds?

Also, lol @ the fattest ninja ever.

Math_Mage

2014-07-12, 08:53 PM

Well. That was a thing. Anybody want to put odds on LMQ making it to worlds?

Also, lol @ the fattest ninja ever.

A good shot. I still think C9 is the best at crunch time, but CLG, LMQ, Dig all have good shots at the other two slots. TSM is spring split Curse--lose to winning teams, win against losing teams--so I don't think they're a threat.

Qwertystop

2014-07-12, 09:13 PM

Look what we just did. (http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1451937228/32811037)

Siosilvar

2014-07-12, 09:16 PM

Look what we just did. (http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1451937228/32811037)

Yup, it turns out that if you have the only ten people in queue you get matched fairly quickly.

http://i.imgur.com/BKm4mZz.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ufdbxma.png

EDIT: Never mind, there are at least five other players apparently. The 5 queue just got into a game!

Forrestfire

2014-07-12, 09:17 PM

I like the name of your Darius rune page :smallamused:

Siosilvar

2014-07-12, 09:27 PM

I like the name of your Darius rune page :smallamused:

Fiora and most other top laners too. They were Baldur's Gate characters before I switched to fun names:

Will It Blend?
Carry Me To My Home
Let's Get Ready to Rumble
Blues Traveler - Four
Ability PowerOverwhelming
Balance in All Things
Captain Shenmacia
You Can't Cheese the Wall
NOOBLORD

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-12, 10:26 PM

fyi Mysana + others

I'm going to have League uninstalled until September.

Godskook

2014-07-12, 10:44 PM

fyi Mysana + others

I'm going to have League uninstalled until September.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

What happened???

@Mysana, we need to pull up a top laner sub for the summer, between Siosilvar, Anarion55, Recaiden or Hawkfrost. Any of the 8 of you have thoughts on this, speak to me quickly.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-12, 11:07 PM

connection issues too stronk

i can't queue without giving the enemy team a strong advantage from minute zero

even recaiden's jungle twitch can't carry me

PersonMan

2014-07-13, 03:24 AM

connection issues too stronk

i can't queue without giving the enemy team a strong advantage from minute zero

even recaiden's jungle twitch can't carry me

Be honest you made a bet and said you'd do whatever the next person told you to do, then you fed and someone said "omg uninstall noob".

Anarion

2014-07-13, 08:47 AM

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

What happened???

@Mysana, we need to pull up a top laner sub for the summer, between Siosilvar, Anarion55, Recaiden or Hawkfrost. Any of the 8 of you have thoughts on this, speak to me quickly.

I top lane better than I jungle by a fair bit. I'm not as good as Kris, but I've got Shyvana, Mundo, Kennen, Lulu, and Jax reasonably playable and I could work on my Renekton if we want him too.

mrcarter11

2014-07-13, 09:10 AM

So, friends of mine told me I should watch CoL vs CRS.. After sitting through the entire thing, I'm not quite sure those people are actually my friends.

thracian

2014-07-13, 09:21 AM

I'm pretty sure the last 20 minutes of that game were the most entertaining thing in this split so far.

mrcarter11

2014-07-13, 09:29 AM

I'm pretty sure I really want whatever you're drinking.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-13, 09:54 AM

I top lane better than I jungle by a fair bit. I'm not as good as Kris, but I've got Shyvana, Mundo, Kennen, Lulu, and Jax reasonably playable and I could work on my Renekton if we want him too.

Also though I won't be playing, I'm totally willing to spectate games and give commentary + coaching where needed.

efdf

2014-07-13, 10:01 AM

I really wish Kog had 2x PD 2x IE instead of Triforce BotRK in an 80 minute game.

edit: and BT instead of BVeil

Artanis

2014-07-13, 11:14 AM

Has anybody been noticing a bit of lag of late? It used to be that, when starting a game, at least 8 players would be at 100% by the time the pre-game loading screen even came up for me, but now there's rarely more than 3. I've also noticed that there's usually at least two or three players who don't start their initial buy+move for a long time (often until after minions have spawned), and I've had a couple times where I got free kills when somebody simply stops moving in lane for several seconds, then complains about lag as they wait to respawn*. I also recently had a game suddenly go to a 5v2 when three opponents left/disconnected near-simultaneously.

*Yes, I know full well that complaints about lag after a death need to be taken with an entire mine's worth of NaCl grains. But stopping moving long enough to be autoattacked to death usually means either lag or typing, and one time it happened to the same guy three times. Taken in isolation I'd say that that guy's connection just decided to crap out that day, but between him winding up being one of the leavers/droppers in the 5v2 game I mentioned and everything else going on...yeah.

Unrelated silly thought: how capable is Tristana of clearing the jungle without getting herself killed by creeps? I know that it's the opposite of competitive at remotely-competent levels, but between me having built more sightstones as an ADC than all my opponents combined total ever, what Tristana can do to an unawares pre-30 player, and what Tristana can do to the opposing team when she has 50% more cash than their wealthiest player, it'd be absolutely HILARIOUS.

Godskook

2014-07-13, 11:25 AM

I really wish Kog had 2x PD 2x IE instead of Triforce BotRK in an 80 minute game.

Why? Serious question here, I want to know your reasoning.

From my perspective, Triforce still offers more MS and similar enough damage that its not worth transitioning to a -second- PD, while BoRK's proc should be providing enough DPS late-game to make its lifesteal/active/AS more valuable than IE's raw damage. Also, you're outright wasting 10% crit.

efdf

2014-07-13, 11:50 AM

I want him to two shot Lucian.

also Triforce damage isn't even close. BotRK and LW are fine but Triforce is terrible lategame on ADC

Siosilvar

2014-07-13, 11:54 AM

Trading out Triforce late game gives up all of your mobility, and BoRK's %health damage is comparable or better than literally anything else you could put in that slot.

efdf

2014-07-13, 12:01 PM

Trading out Triforce late game gives up all of your mobility

trading out triforce late game gives up all of triforce's mobility. trading out boots for zephyr gives up mobility too. itemization is all about what stats you desire over others. regardless, pd shiv is more ms than triforce.

BoRK's %health damage is comparable or better than literally anything else you could put in that slot.

nah. it's the best damage for a lifesteal item but compared to pure damage items it's not good

edit: unless slot = lifesteal item, then yeah i agree. there's only two ranged lifesteal items, botrk and bt though lol

Godskook

2014-07-13, 12:07 PM

I want him to two shot Lucian.

At least go Shiv+PD+2xIE then, since I'm fairly certain that 10% AS isn't worth more than Shiv-proc and 1% MS. *ESPECIALLY* if you're focused closer to burst than DPS.

efdf

2014-07-13, 12:08 PM

you're right shiv would be better

or ghostblade

just flash forward and end the game instead of spending 80 minutes attacking renekton omfg this game is unwatchable

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 12:39 PM

lategame botrk is good almost solely because of its attack speed

triforce sucks compared to any other damage item lategame but it's a better boots alternative than zephyr in terms of dps

ie-ie-botrk-pd-lw is optimal 5-item dps build

edit:
pd starts to outperform botrk in that build at ~900 hp given kog'maw's base stats

efdf

2014-07-13, 01:07 PM

yeah ur right triforce should replace zephyr

so ie-ie-shiv-tri-lw-bt for best 1hitting lucian potential??

idk i need to find a timestamp where he gets hit by shockwave and see his hp to see if there was a possible kog build that allows an instant kill off of it

or just any moment where he loses a significant amount of his hp. i think gragas does it a few times too

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 01:12 PM

yeah ur right triforce should replace zephyr

so ie-ie-shiv-tri-lw-bt for best 1hitting lucian potential??

idk i need to find a timestamp where he gets hit by shockwave and see his hp to see if there was a possible kog build that allows an instant kill off of it

ie-ie-ie-tf-gb-lw pls

that's a bit more than 1300 damage pre-mit

efdf

2014-07-13, 01:13 PM

it has to be at least somewhat playable though...
i do love me some ghostblade kog though

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 01:14 PM

ghostblade is super underrated, 20 arpen on a cc/ad/as item is baller

TechnOkami

2014-07-13, 01:38 PM

Would Ghostblade be optimal on Tryndamere in place of one of his usual items?

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 01:43 PM

it's a good shiv replacement if you're one of the players who doesn't feel like shiv is necessary, and it smooths out his second item power-spike really well, not to mention that botrk-gb-ie-lw is probably a nearly ideal 4-item combination

Dallas-Dakota

2014-07-13, 05:25 PM

Would Ghostblade be optimal on Tryndamere in place of one of his usual items?

Ghostblade is excellent on Tryndamere, but the issue is when to build it in my head.

Siosilvar

2014-07-13, 06:14 PM

Ghostblade is excellent on Tryndamere, but the issue is when to build it in my head.

Cutlass->Ghostblade->BoRK

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 06:21 PM

Cutlass->Ghostblade->BoRK

you're killing me

Siosilvar

2014-07-13, 06:25 PM

you're killing me

Given that the standard build has been Cutlass->Shiv->IE->LW->BoRK for ages I figure something that puts it off for a bit shorter was in order

Ionbound

2014-07-13, 06:45 PM

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 07:00 PM

Given that the standard build has been Cutlass->Shiv->IE->LW->BoRK for ages I figure something that puts it off for a bit shorter was in order

in my experience, building cutlass and then starting another item, generally shiv or triforce, is almost exclusively something done by players who don't know what they're doing.

it's extremely important to finish most offensive items before starting another item. unlike several other mobas, upgraded items in league are generally much more gold efficient in terms of both stats and potency than the items from which they're built. there exist a few niche exceptions among weapons (largely just bruta and situationally tiamat), but botrk is doubtlessly not one of them.

Siosilvar

2014-07-13, 07:01 PM

So, I've been wondering about practicing CS. After looking at a few guides, this is what I've come up with:

1v1 on Summoner's rift. Your goal is to get 100+ CS after 10 minutes, while, at the same time, trying to keep your opponent from doing the same.

Does this sound feasible to anyone? Or should I lower the CS goal to 80 or something?

38 CS is perfect at 5 minutes and 106 is perfect at 10 minutes. I can't hit 100 before 10:30 if I'm trying

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-13, 07:05 PM

So, I've been wondering about practicing CS. After looking at a few guides, this is what I've come up with:

1v1 on Summoner's rift. Your goal is to get 100+ CS after 10 minutes, while, at the same time, trying to keep your opponent from doing the same.

Does this sound feasible to anyone? Or should I lower the CS goal to 80 or something?

100 CS at 10 minutes is approaching or even pro-level, that is an admirable goal but not something you can do easilly, 70-80 seems a better ballpark IMO.

Eldariel

2014-07-13, 07:13 PM

100 CS at 10 minutes is approaching or even pro-level, that is an admirable goal but not something you can do easilly, 70-80 seems a better ballpark IMO.

There's no reason not to aim high. I can do 100 in 10 mins if I'm focusing on farming. Of course, my playstyle is extremely roam/gank-heavy so I'll miss out on that by a wide margin most games but that's what I'd aim for if I were farming my lane for the whole 8 min lane time over the first 10 mins of the game. It's good to have goals even if they feel distant at times. Keeps you trying and focused.

ex cathedra

2014-07-13, 07:27 PM

19 minions spawn per 90 seconds starting from 90 seconds, so the wave that spawns at 9:30 contains the 96th through 101st minion of each lane. there isn't a lot of room for mistakes, though wards and jungle creeps can inflate your CS before that point. generally, getting 100 lane minion cs at 10 minutes is rarely reasonable-- especially in side lanes-- when laning against another player since there are often times when the value of some minions is less than the health you'd lose by positioning to farm them. several midlaners can hit 100cs at 10 relatively easily, tho

Math_Mage

2014-07-13, 07:47 PM

Today strong ADCs beat strong top laners, I guess. Oh, and it's Complexity's turn to throw a lead.

thracian

2014-07-13, 10:03 PM

Anarion

2014-07-13, 10:48 PM

It should be noted that 100 CS at 10 minutes in bot lane has been hit precisely once in NA LCS, and that was Doublelift as Sivir in a winning lane (against like EG or something).

Also, today I learned that Lucian is exclusively called Obama on Chinese servers, and Corki is known mostly as Airplane. lol frontpage reddit

The lane swaps consistently sit around 80-90 though.

Also to firedaemon's original question, the best way to practice CS is to make a custom game with one bot and go to an empty lane where you practice just killing the minions. It's a tad boring, but you'll be surprised by how few you manage to kill, even with nothing else to do. You need to know how to take out a wave of minions without anybody bothering you before you can learn how to maneuver around them to do it while being harassed.

Forum Explorer

2014-07-13, 11:06 PM

So is there any reason why Vel'Koz isn't more popular? I almost never seen him played, but I'm having a blast with him this week. Particularly when I go up against Ziggs.

Admittedly the Ziggs I've faced have been downright horrible at hitting me with their ult.

Math_Mage

2014-07-13, 11:20 PM

Grytorm

2014-07-14, 12:04 AM

Well after months I finished playing 20 games as Vi. I went 10/10 and near the end my core was Quill Coat + Brutalizer + Boots. I don't know if that is good but it felt decent to me. For a while I felt fairly bad but I tried focusing a bit more on farming and felt a little stronger. I still suck of course. But it was something new.

For the next champion to play I am thinking either Poppy or Leona. Originally I was going to do Leona but then I realized Poppy might be fun to try first. I played a game as her a while ago and did okay, still lost the game though.

I am not certain of what a good Poppy build is. AP Poppy I can guess but I want to focus on AD. Something like Doran's Shield + Pot start. On first back grab flask and boots if possible. Then rush Trinity. After Trinity Randuins and Spirit Visage as main tank items. Ghostblade seems like a good option for damage I guess. Any suggestions?

TechnOkami

2014-07-14, 12:11 AM

I still need to play a Tank Jungler with the new Quill Coat. :/

Anarion

2014-07-14, 12:23 AM

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u433/jrogers55/Gold_zpsb781baf7.png

abadguy

2014-07-14, 12:32 AM

Singed is the best: 搅屎棍, or "s***-stirring stick".

Lol where did you see that from? Very apt!

Just a FYI for those interested in knowing, I've provided translations in the spoiler.
Also note that China and Taiwan players have slightly differing nicks. For ease of reference I'll just use the ones used in China. Heimer's nick is hilarious, hope the Chinese script appears

Note the use of "Uncle" or "Auntie" is in reference to an older male or female
[ 厄薩斯 ] Aatrox | 劍魔 - Sword Demon
[ 阿璃 ] Ahri | 狐狸、狐女 - Fox or Fox Girl
[ 阿卡莉 ] Akali | 護士 - Nurse (Prob in reference to her most famous skin)
[ 亞歷斯塔 ] Alistar | 牛 - Cow
[ 阿姆姆 ] Amumu | 姆姆、哭哭 - CryCry/QQ
[ 艾妮維亞 ] Anivia | 冰鳥 - Ice Bird
[ 安妮 ] Annie | 蘿莉、熊女 - Loli, Bear Girl
[ 艾希 ] Ashe | 人妻、艾C - Wife, Ai-C
[ 布里茨 ] Blitzcrank | Blitz、GG人、機器人 - Robot
[ 布蘭德 ] Brand | 火人 - Fire Man
[ 凱特琳 ] Caitlyn | Cait、警長、女警 - Sheriff, Female Cop
[ 卡莎碧雅 ] Cassiopeia | Cass、蛇女 - Snake Lady
[ 科加斯 ] Cho'Gath | Cho、大蟲、大蝦 - Big Worm or Big Prawn
[ 庫奇 ] Corki | 飛機 - Airplane
[ 達瑞斯 ] Darius | 達叔、大流士 - Uncle "Dar"
[ 黛安娜 ] Diana | 皎月、月女 - Moon Lady
[ 蒙多醫生 ] Dr. Mundo | 菜刀 - Cleaver
[ 達瑞文 ] Draven | 瑞文 - Draven (transliteration of his name)
[ 伊莉絲 ] Elise | 蜘蛛 - Spider
[ 伊芙琳 ] Evelynn | Eve、寡婦 - Widow
[ 伊澤瑞爾 ] Ezreal | EZ、洛克人(指脈衝火焰Skin) - EZ or Rockman (Pulsefire skin)
[ 費德提克 ] Fiddlesticks | Fiddle、草人、稻草人 - Scarecrow
[ 菲歐拉 ] Fiora | 肥歐拉、劍姬(對岸暱稱)、劍女(對岸暱稱) - "Fed"-ora, Sword Maiden
[ 飛斯 ] Fizz | 小魚人、漁夫、史迪奇 - Fisherman or Stitch (as in the Disney alien)
[ 加里歐 ] Galio | Gaylio
[ 剛普朗克 ] Gangplank | 船長、海盜、GP - Pirate
[ 蓋倫 ] Garen | GAY倫、草叢癡漢 - "Gay"-ren or Brush Geek
[ 古拉格斯 ] Gragas | 酒桶 - Wine Barrel
[ 葛雷夫 ] Graves | 大叔、男槍 - Big Uncle, Man-Gun
[ 赫克林 ] Hecarim | 客家人、人馬、小馬 - Centaur
[ 漢默丁格 ] Heimerdinger | Heimer、泡麵、泡麵頭 - Ramen Head
[ 伊瑞莉雅 ] Irelia | Ire、刀妹、刀鋒(對岸暱稱) - Blade Edge, Knife Girl
[ 珍娜 ] Janna | 風女 - Wind Girl
[ 嘉文四世 ] Jarvan IV | J4、王子、皇子、呂布 - Prince or "Lu Bu" (after the warring kingdoms skin)
[ 賈克斯 ] Jax | 武器大師、身上有眼 - Weapon Master, Eyes on Body
[ 杰西 ] Jayce | JC、好男人 - Good Guy
[ 吉茵珂絲 ] Jinx | 金克斯 - "Jin Ke Si" transliteration
[ 卡瑪 ] Karma | 大嬸 - Elder Auntie (大嬸 is usually what Chinese call an older female who about the same age as your mother)
[ 卡爾瑟斯 ] Karthus | 死歌、死哥 - Dirge
[ 卡薩丁 ] Kassadin | 卡丁丁 - Ka Ding Ding
[ 卡特蓮娜 ] Katarina | Kata、卡特、女刀(對岸暱稱) - Girl-Blade
[ 凱爾 ] Kayle | 天使 - Angel
[ 凱能 ] Kennen | 凱南、皮卡丘、電耗子、松鼠 - Pikachu, Lightning Mouse, Squirrel
[ 卡力斯 ] Kha'Zix | 飛天螳螂、蟑螂 - Soaring Mantis, Cockroach
[ 寇格魔 ] Kog'Maw | Kog、摳毛、大嘴(對岸暱稱) - Big Mouth
[ 勒布朗 ] LeBlanc | Leb、LB、詭術妖姬(對岸暱稱)、詐欺師 - Deceptive Demon Bitch
[ 李星 ] Lee Sin | Lee、盲僧(對岸暱稱)、給酷 - Blind Monk
[ 雷歐娜 ] Leona | 日女、女坦(對岸暱稱) - Lady Tank
[ 麗珊卓 ] Lissandra | Liss、李三爪、梨山爪 - 3 Claws
[ 路西恩 ] Lucian | 黑人、歐巴馬 - Black Man, Obama
[ 拉克絲 ] Lux | 光女(對岸暱稱) Light Girl
[ 墨菲特 ] Malphite | Malph、石頭人、馬肥 - Stone Man
[ 馬爾扎哈 ] Malzahar | Malz、馬爾哈哈、馬扎 - MalzHaha
[ 茂凱 ] Maokai | 樹人 - Tree Man
[ 易大師 ] Master Yi | Master Feed、Yi、劍聖(對岸暱稱) - Sword Saint
[ 好運姐 ] Miss Fortune | MF
[ 魔鬥凱薩 ] Mordekaiser | Morde、鋼鐵人、金屬大師 - Metal Man
[ 娜米 ] Nami | 魚、人魚、海女(對岸暱稱) - Mermaid, Sea Lady
[ 納瑟斯 ] Nasus | 狗頭人 - Dog Headed Man
[ 納帝魯斯 ] Nautilus | Naut、Nauti、海巨人、潛水人、鸚鵡螺 - Diver
[ 奈德麗 ] Nidalee | Nid、奶大力、貓女、豹女 - Powerful Breasts, Cat Lady
[ 夜曲 ] Nocturne | Noc、夢魘(對岸暱稱) - Dream Demon
[ 努努 ] Nunu | 雪人、雪球、奴奴 - Snowman, Snowball
[ 歐拉夫 ] Olaf | 40趴、歐拉肥 - 40 steps
[ 奧莉安娜 ] Orianna | Ori、球女、發條(對岸暱稱) - Ball Lady, Clockwork
[ 潘森 ] Pantheon | 斯巴達 - Sparta
[ 波比 ] Poppy | 毒饅頭 - Poison Bun
[ 葵恩 ] Quinn | QN
[ 拉姆斯 ] Rammus | OK、歐給、烏龜、犰狳 - OK, Turtle, Armadillo
[ 雷尼克頓 ] Renekton | Rene、鱷魚 - Alligator
[ 雷葛爾 ] Rengar | 獅子、奶油獅 - Creamy Lion
[ 雷玟 ] Riven | 瑞文(對岸譯名)、兔女郎 - Bunny Girl (reference to skin)
[ 藍寶 ] Rumble | 藍博 - Rambo
[ 雷兹 ] Ryze | 光頭、瑞茲(對岸譯名) - Baldy
[ 史瓦妮 ] Sejuani | 豬女、賽豬阿妮 - Pig Lady, Pig Racing Annie
[ 薩科 ] Shaco | 小丑、蝦口 - Clown
[ 慎 ] Shen - Ninja
[ 希瓦娜 ] Shyvana | 龍女 Dragon Lady
[ 辛吉德 ] Singed | 光頭、慢跑伯、屁男、放屁伯 - Slow Running Uncle, Farting Uncle
[ 希維爾 ] Sivir | 輪子大媽 - Big Mama of the Wheel
[ 史加納 ] Skarner | 蠍子 - Scorption
[ 索娜 ] Sona | 初音、琴女(對岸暱稱)、琴仙(對岸暱稱)、ㄋㄟㄋㄟ - Stringed Instrument Fairy
[ 索拉卡 ] Soraka | 奶媽(對岸暱稱) - Wetnurse
[ 斯溫 ] Swain | 掰咖、烏鴉、蔡康永 - Crow, (in Taiwan he is also nicknamed after a famous TV host 蔡康永)
[ 星朵菈 ] Syndra | 元首(對岸暱稱)、球女(對岸暱稱，台服球女是指Ori) - Head of State
[ 塔隆 ] Talon | 男刀(對岸暱稱) - Man-Blade
[ 塔里克 ] Taric | Gayric、寶石(對岸暱稱) - Gem
[ 提摩 ] Teemo | 剔毛、踢毛、T毛 - Similes of Teemo to mean "Shaved"
[ 瑟雷西 ] Thresh | 雷西、錘石(對岸暱稱)、燈籠 - Lantern
[ 崔絲塔娜 ] Tristana | Tris、砲娘、小砲 - Cannon Lady, Little Cannon
[ 特朗德 ] Trundle | 川島、山怪、巨魔(對岸暱稱)、Troll - Big Demon
[ 泰達米爾 ] Tryndamere | Tryn、蠻王 - Barbarian King
[ 逆命 ] Twisted Fate | TF、卡牌 - Cards
[ 圖奇 ] Twitch | 老鼠 - Rat
[ 烏迪爾 ] Udyr | 無敵兒 - Transliteration to mean "Invincible"
[ 烏爾加特 ] Urgot | 螃蟹、蟹老闆、視訊肥宅 - Crab Biss
[ 法洛士 ] Varus | 維魯斯(對岸譯名) - Transliteration
[ 汎 ] Vayne | 薇恩(對岸譯名) - Transliteration
[ 維迦 ] Veigar | 小法、小法師 - Little Wizard
[ 菲艾 ] Vi | 六姐 - Sister Six
[ 維克特 ] Viktor | 內褲假面、瘋狂假面 - Underwear Mask, Crazy Mask
[弗拉迪米爾] Vladimir | 吸血鬼、Vlad - Vampire
[ 弗力貝爾 ] Volibear | 熊、無力熊 - Useless Bear
[ 沃維克 ] Warwick | 狼人、WW - Wolfman
[ 悟空 ] Wukong | 猴子 - Monkey
[ 齊勒斯 ] Xerath | 棺材、飯糰頭、三角飯糰、元太、澤拉斯(對岸譯名) - Casket, Onigiri-Head
[ 趙信 ] Xin Zhao | 菊花信、總管 - Sphincter Xin
[ 犽宿 ] Yasuo | 夭壽、耶穌 - Jesus (due to how close Yasuo and Jesus sound in Chinese)
[ 約瑞科 ] Yorick | 掘墓 - Gravedigger
[ 札克 ] Zac | 綠色怪物、綠色廢物 - Green Monster
[ 希格斯 ] Ziggs | 炸彈魔 - Bomb Demon
[ 極靈 ] Zilean | 時鐘、時光 - Clock
[ 枷蘿 ] Zyra | 花女、宅拉、植物人 - Flower Girl

TechnOkami

2014-07-14, 01:25 AM

Oh God. Ramen and Onigiri head, that's too funny.

Also, can I take some time out of your day to introduce you to my lord and savior Yasuo?

Winthur

2014-07-14, 03:36 AM

So is there any reason why Vel'Koz isn't more popular? I almost never seen him played, but I'm having a blast with him this week. Particularly when I go up against Ziggs.

High base damage with low ratios - so no scaling, really - relatively hard to hit skillshots, lack of mobility and he doesn't really fill any niche.
He's more of a support pick to most people.

lord_khaine

2014-07-14, 05:03 AM

Antonok

2014-07-14, 06:43 AM

So, i have held a "minor" break from lol and is back again playing now.
But it seems there have come a few new jungle items, how useful are things like Feral Flare or Quill coat, and who should be building them?

Feral Flare is good on AS junglers like WW, Noct, Xin, Shaco. Quill Coat is part of the upgrade path for Ancient Golem so any tank jungler like the old AG.

riccaru

2014-07-14, 08:03 AM

Feral Flare is good on AS junglers like WW, Noct, Xin, Shaco. Quill Coat is part of the upgrade path for Ancient Golem so any tank jungler like the old AG.

I don't like feral flare on shaco when I play. I usually try to do a lot of banking and that makes it pretty hard to get feral flare stacks. I can see where it would be good but usually I just go for elder lizard or just the stone and skip a full jungle item altogether if I get a few good ganks off.

Winthur

2014-07-14, 08:32 AM

Quill coat
jungle alistar

and all the other tanky champions with no sufficient clear of their own

riccaru

2014-07-14, 09:05 AM

jungle alistar

and all the other tanky champions with no sufficient clear of their own

I would have said Vi, Jarvan, or maybe Hecarim depending on what you build.

Merellis

2014-07-14, 09:17 AM

Been using that on Elise a bit too, given that I don't really need the other options at all to be the tanky AP Pen monster that I am.

Antonok

2014-07-14, 09:19 AM

I don't like feral flare on shaco when I play. I usually try to do a lot of banking and that makes it pretty hard to get feral flare stacks. I can see where it would be good but usually I just go for elder lizard or just the stone and skip a full jungle item altogether if I get a few good ganks off.

I usually just get madred's and finish it after I get a couple core items. The extra AS helps get an extra shot or 2 in while JitB's fear is up during ganks. But then I seem to have a weird build for shaco. madreds>Shiv>Greaves>IE>FF>Whatever.

lord_khaine

2014-07-14, 09:19 AM

Thanks for the replies, my main junglers are Udyr and Shyvana, so i guess it will be either Feral flare or nothing then.

TechnOkami

2014-07-14, 09:33 AM

NineThePuma

2014-07-14, 10:23 AM

Phoenix Udyr favors Quillcoat or spirit stone, tiger loves Feral.

Winthur

2014-07-14, 10:30 AM

TechnOkami

I can last hit

well damn you just ruined my default assumptions

also yeah all the champs are playable so do what you want

Anarion

2014-07-14, 11:12 AM

also yeah all the champs are playable so do what you want

Want to run Poppy Urgot duo lane with me?

TechnOkami

2014-07-14, 11:21 AM

well damn you just ruined my default assumptions

also yeah all the champs are playable so do what you want
Shocking, right? I'm actually decent at last hitting now, I'm just not Sofawall, or Djinn levels of last hitting.

Want to run Poppy Urgot duo lane with me?
Hextech Hammer Time?

Eldariel

2014-07-14, 01:28 PM

Ionbound

2014-07-14, 01:35 PM

So, I played a round of CS practice as Shyvana without harass, runes, or masteries, and I had, after 10 minutes...35 CS. Any tips to get better? Or is it just practice, practice, practice.

Eldariel

2014-07-14, 01:40 PM

So, I played a round of CS practice as Shyvana without harass, runes, or masteries, and I had, after 10 minutes...35 CS. Any tips to get better? Or is it just practice, practice, practice.

Well. First of all, runes and masteries are kinda important. Since when you normally play you have runes and masteries and thus you're used to lasthitting with those; there's little point in trying to lasthit without them. Anyways, obviously you need to plan which creeps to lasthit; just pay attention to which are being focused and make sure you're there to take the lasthit. when you use AOE you need to be extra careful since creeps get easily eaten up while you're at that. Other than that, well, obviously practice makes perfect. With time you don't really need to pay attention to the minion HP, you kinda do that automatically. But the mechanics and the base damage of whichever champion you use obviously factors into it.

TechnOkami

2014-07-14, 01:47 PM

Shocking, right? I'm actually decent at last hitting now, I'm just not Sofawall, or Djinn levels of last hitting.

Or Eldariel for that matter. Congrats on Diamond 1.

Anarion

2014-07-14, 02:29 PM

So, I played a round of CS practice as Shyvana without harass, runes, or masteries, and I had, after 10 minutes...35 CS. Any tips to get better? Or is it just practice, practice, practice.

Like Eldariel said, use some runes and masteries. But that said, don't make an unnatural build just to CS better. Shyvana mostly wants defense masteries, for example. My rune page for her is MS quints, AS reds, armor yellows (that should be health yellows but I'm cheap), and scaling MR blues.

A good tip is to walk up at level one and just hit a couple minions with lots of hp. That way you have a visual representation of how much your autoattack makes their lifebar move. Do it on a melee and on a ranged enemy. Then when you see the creep attacks get an enemy's lifebar within that range, you autoattack it. Make sure you're standing nearby too, so that it doesn't die in the time it takes you to walk up to it.

With Shyvana specifically, there's a way to use her W to aoe the minions and farm a whole wave very quickly, but I recommend that you start out by using it as a way to do an extra tick of damage if you mess up an autoattack. This is because W ticks instantly after you hit the button, so if you mess up and leave a minion at a sliver of health, hit W and you'll kill it. Then you can practice calculating the damage that W does to the minions around you. Additionally, her Q is an autoattack reset, so you finish a minion by hitting Q right after you auto it.

The other thing you can do is go watch a couple LCS games with champions that you want to practice. Many champions have certain farming routines that people use. For example, Shyvana players that are trying to push quickly can get the last hits on a whole wave by running ahead of their creeps and using E+W in a good position to kill a whole wave quickly, using her Q as needed for its autoattack reset.

ex cathedra

2014-07-14, 02:44 PM

attack speed runes are unlikely to be optimal on top lane shyvana, and I personally prefer armor quints, but either way runes and masteries have a nearly negligible impact on how easily it is to CS.

improving your last hitting just requires a little bit of practice and a concentrated effort to be more aware, which is honestly how you improve at nearly every element of laning.

that said, there's really nothing wrong with just running +15 AD runes on shyv and calling it a day, but if you're trying to farm every wave by spamming W and E maybe you should tone it back a bit, since farming while R is active takes a little practice and doing it while under tower isn't any easier

Olinser

2014-07-14, 03:33 PM

So, I played a round of CS practice as Shyvana without harass, runes, or masteries, and I had, after 10 minutes...35 CS. Any tips to get better? Or is it just practice, practice, practice.

35 CS at 10 minutes is incredibly poor, especially in a zero-threat environment. 'Perfect' CS is 100 minions at 10 minutes. What 35 means is that you are barely getting 2 minions per wave, out of a possible 6. You definitely need to practice basic last hitting, and a lot of it.

In the first place, stop autoattacking. This is a common misconception among many new and lower-level players. When you are in a lane, you do not have to ALWAYS be hitting something. It is better to not hit anything at all, and simply wait for that last hit.

It sounds like you need a lot of work on just basic knowledge of your damage and anticipation of which minions are going to die. At that level of CS I would highly recommend forgetting about melee like Shyvana, and practice starting with an easy ADC with a responsive autoattack like Caitlyn, and starting item Doran's Blade, to get your no-threat CS higher. Ranged champions are easier to learn CS with because they don't have to worry nearly as much about not being able to get to a minion quickly enough. When you get your CS up to a better level and have a better grasp on CSing, THEN move on to melee champions, which adds in the dynamic of having to actually anticipate and be in melee range to hit minions about to die.

At your level of CS a very common mistake is just to look at which minions have the lowest health bar and focus on them. What you should be looking at the whole wave, and keeping an eye on which minions are actually being attacked and learn to anticipate when they are going to die, and focus on the dying ones rather than the low health ones.

e.g. If a melee minion is at 1/3 health (but too high to be killed in 1 shot by you), but not actually being attacked, ignore him in favor of the 3/4 health caster minion that is being attacked by a cannon minion and 3 casters, because it is going to die quick. Caster minions in particular are doing most of the damage in the early game (when a cannon isn't present) - pay attention to which minions they are attacking. Often in the first couple waves if more than a couple casters are attacking a single target, it is perfectly possible for the shots to kill a minion that was too high for a single of your auto attacks to finish off. So what you need to do is not just start autoattacking them and hope to kill it first, what you need to do is time an attack in the middle of the shots so that the first couple caster shots hit, take it low enough, and you finish it off before the last couple shots kill it away from you.

While alone, almost all of your lost CS is probably coming from either overestimating your damage, and hitting a minion down to a sliver where another minion finishes them off before you reset, or not paying enough attention and having 2 minions die at the same time, with you only getting 1 of them.

For the first, never 'guess' your damage. You don't have to hit a minion the second you think an attack might finish them. Again, anticipate the level of damage they are taking. Wait until you are SURE that your autoattack kills them, and then hit them.

On the same note, as you watch the minion health, anticipate if two minions are going to die at the same time. If you can anticipate 2 minions dying at the same time, you need to hit one of them with an autoattack or two to space them out and allow you to get both of them. Failing to anticipate this will often result in people missing MULTIPLE CS, as they panic at the last second and try to use an AOE skill to get both, and quite frequently getting neither, and possibly losing other minions from the splash.

Anarion

2014-07-14, 04:30 PM

Don't be too hard on him, Olinser. Everybody has to start somewhere, and I bet that 5-6 practice games on the same champion could easily double that number.

ex cathedra

2014-07-14, 04:39 PM

In the first place, stop autoattacking. This is a common misconception among many new and lower-level players. When you are in a lane, you do not have to ALWAYS be hitting something. It is better to not hit anything at all, and simply wait for that last hit.
better? that seems like a stretch. situationally better, sure, but also situationally worse.

Math_Mage

2014-07-14, 05:29 PM

better? that seems like a stretch. situationally better, sure, but also situationally worse.
This is one of those "When you're good enough to disagree thoughtfully with this rule, you don't need it anymore" rules.

Godskook

2014-07-14, 06:03 PM

it's extremely important to finish most offensive items before starting another item. unlike several other mobas, upgraded items in league are generally much more gold efficient in terms of both stats and potency than the items from which they're built. there exist a few niche exceptions among weapons (largely just bruta and situationally tiamat), but botrk is doubtlessly not one of them.

1.I want to highlight the word -offensive-, as defensive items rarely(if ever) offer defensive gold efficiency as a value in their completed items relative to smaller components.

2.I would add BFS to the list of good components too, for certain rare circumstances(BFS->Shiv on Ashe, or 2xBFS->LW on Graves when ahead to optimize his burst combo).

there's little point in trying to lasthit without them.

You may not personally value the exercise, and a new player is probably better served with less difficult practice, but its certainly a valuable exercise(as well as highly recommended).

runes and masteries have a nearly negligible impact on how easily it is to CS.

This just isn't true.

better? that seems like a stretch. situationally better, sure, but also situationally worse.

Putting your auto on CD mindlessly is categorically worse than putting it on CD -only- to get last-hits. Neither is optimal, but I don't think Olinser was aiming for optimal with his advice, merely "a step in the right direction".

Winthur

2014-07-14, 06:11 PM

You may not personally value the exercise, and a new player is probably better served with less difficult practice, but its certainly a valuable exercise(as well as highly recommended).
maybe according to reddit armchair challengers, but at least for ADCs who always have the same runepages across all the seasons it's better to have the good habits down, and for champs who run stuff like magpen reds it doesn't matter if they clean their runepage or not just for lasthitting

This just isn't true.

depends on champ

ex cathedra

2014-07-14, 06:13 PM

This just isn't true.
but it is on shyvana since none of her ideal runes and many of her potential mastery pages offer little to no help for last hitting

Putting your auto on CD mindlessly is categorically worse than putting it on CD -only- to get last-hits.
not if pushing is more valuable than last-hitting

u-gotNOgame

2014-07-14, 06:17 PM

Thanks for the replies, my main junglers are Udyr and Shyvana, so i guess it will be either Feral flare or nothing then.

Udyr is also a candidate for Ancient Golem if you feel you aren't just going to afk farm for 20 minutes.

-UGNG

Godskook

2014-07-14, 06:36 PM

maybe according to reddit armchair challengers, but at least for ADCs who always have the same runepages across all the seasons it's better to have the good habits down, and for champs who run stuff like magpen reds it doesn't matter if they clean their runepage or not just for lasthitting

ADC pages have changed at least twice since S2 that I can personally recall, ranging from full AD to AD Marks/Lifesteal Quints to an AD/AS combination page that, last I heard, was the optimal setup.

And ranged AP Mids at one point were running AD Reds, and at another, HPen Reds.

depends on champ

If he had included "optimal" in his claim, I'd grant you this, but he didn't. Every champ can be get notable last-hitting benefits via runes and masteries.

but it is on shyvana since none of her ideal runes and many of her potential mastery pages offer little to no help for last hitting

She never runs 9 offense for Feast and Martial Mastery?

Also, I was under the impression that +15 AD, even if not quite optimal, is certainly a strong rune page on her due to Q and W.

not if pushing is more valuable than last-hitting

That's not mindless, tho.

Udyr is also a candidate for Ancient Golem if you feel you aren't just going to afk farm for 20 minutes.

-UGNG

Basically everyone who likes building tanky can take Spirit-Golem whenever its a viable option, which includes Shyvana if she's not wanting to bet on Flare for some reason.

Anarion

2014-07-14, 06:52 PM

Apologies to Mysana, I'm held up at work and will be late or possibly not present tonight.

Winthur

2014-07-14, 07:21 PM

ADC pages have changed at least twice since S2 that I can personally recall, ranging from full AD to AD Marks/Lifesteal Quints to an AD/AS combination page that, last I heard, was the optimal setup.

they're pretty much the same thing for most purposes. there is more variety to top lane runepages for instance.

And ranged AP Mids at one point were running AD Reds
[citation needed], only recall froggen pulling that off in very specific situations because he's froggen. i used to do that on annie when i had no other runes because she had good auto range.

and at another, HPen Reds.
not that much of a lasthitting help anyway. nobody runs arpen (or hpen as an extension) reds to help lasthitting.

and at one point they were also running magic resist reds to the point magic resist got nerfed across the board = also no lasthit help.

If he had included "optimal" in his claim, I'd grant you this, but he didn't. Every champ can be get notable last-hitting benefits via runes and masteries.

"notable" is a stretch. on someone like warwick with horrible auto animations maybe. someone like sion or anyone with natural damage or easy spammable spell/waveclear? meh

Forum Explorer

2014-07-14, 07:49 PM

High base damage with low ratios - so no scaling, really - relatively hard to hit skillshots, lack of mobility and he doesn't really fill any niche.
He's more of a support pick to most people.

His skill shots are pretty easy to land, and are on low cooldowns so you can really spam them out too.

Mobility I'll grant you.

I was playing him in the same 'niche' as Ziggs. AP Mage who just deals damage with his spells and provides some minor CC.

Oh, and a reminder that Team Percussive Therapy is playing tonight.

ex cathedra

2014-07-14, 07:53 PM

If he had included "optimal" in his claim, I'd grant you this, but he didn't. Every champ can be get notable last-hitting benefits via runes and masteries.
what a waste of text. even if my statement was made without context -- that is, as you presented it -- the worst it does is assume competency. yes, every champ can last hit more easily via runes and masteries; 30 flat AD runes would improve many champion's ability to last hit significantly. that's true, yes, but it also isn't worth stating since a player who was competent on even the most basic of levels, by their own nature, would never run 30 flat AD runes.

my statement, specifically, was ripped from a sentence about shyvana's rune choices and last-hitting that was in reply to a post about last-hitting on shyvana, so give the straw-man a break

She never runs 9 offense for Feast and Martial Mastery?
weird how i don't recall saying that

Also, I was under the impression that +15 AD, even if not quite optimal, is certainly a strong rune page on her due to Q and W.
15 ad becomes completely irrelevant on shyv past the earliest part of the laning phase. W's full-duration AD ratio is 1.4 bonus AD, which is honestly laughable. even if one considers Q to have a 1.7 bonus AD ratio, the contribution of bonus AD pales to the combination of botrk AD, base AD, botrk on-hit, and flame breath on-hit.

That's not mindless, tho.
my point is that, because pushing is potentially more valuable than last-hitting, the statement "it is better to not hit anything at all, and simply wait for that last hit" is not true.

Forum Explorer

2014-07-14, 08:03 PM

my point is that, because pushing is potentially more valuable than last-hitting, the statement "it is better to not hit anything at all, and simply wait for that last hit" is not true.

No, last hitting is much more important then pushing. As a skilled player can farm under the turret without too much difficulty. It's harder, but not that much. And it's easier to get the last hit if you wait for the last hit rather then constantly autoattacking.

If you can autoattack constantly and still get the CS, then go for it. But even then pushing might not be the best decision cause it leave you vulnerable to ganks.

Eldariel

2014-07-14, 08:09 PM

No, last hitting is much more important then pushing. As a skilled player can farm under the turret without too much difficulty. It's harder, but not that much. And it's easier to get the last hit if you wait for the last hit rather then constantly autoattacking.

That would be all fine and good, except the purpose of pushing isn't usually just to deny CS. It's a nice side-effect, but generally you push to move the wave so you can base or roam or draw enemy jungler away from other lanes or enable a dive or so on. It also resets the wave so if you want to setup a position where enemy has to play higher up few minutes down the road you can push to enforce that. Mostly, pushing to the tower frees you up to do whatever the hell you want without losing significant CS, while also getting tower damage (getting towers down is good, yo).

And yes, good players can often CS fairly well under the tower but even then that means they're spending their resources on getting the CS instead of harassing and defending so if you are still there instead of doing stuff, you can get free harass off it and force them to miss CS and so on.

efdf

2014-07-14, 08:18 PM

Your default state of mind should be to push. Only last hitting is what you do for a slow push or freeze which are more specific circumstances.

Forum Explorer

2014-07-14, 08:25 PM

That would be all fine and good, except the purpose of pushing isn't usually just to deny CS. It's a nice side-effect, but generally you push to move the wave so you can base or roam or draw enemy jungler away from other lanes or enable a dive or so on. It also resets the wave so if you want to setup a position where enemy has to play higher up few minutes down the road you can push to enforce that. Mostly, pushing to the tower frees you up to do whatever the hell you want without losing significant CS, while also getting tower damage (getting towers down is good, yo).

And yes, good players can often CS fairly well under the tower but even then that means they're spending their resources on getting the CS instead of harassing and defending so if you are still there instead of doing stuff, you can get free harass off it and force them to miss CS and so on.

All that is true, but none of it is very valuable if you are pushing at the expense of getting CS. I've faced players who push over last hitting and I just crush them later on because they are so far behind in gold.

And that's my point really. If you can push without sacrificing CS, then go for it. It's why I like champs like Anivia and Singed who can push out a wave really easily. If pushing is costing CS, then focus on that first.

Antonok

2014-07-14, 08:46 PM

So, next champion is seemingly going to be a top laner (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-skins/niH3APAB-meddler-qa?comment=00200000).

Not much I know, but at least we have a general idea now.

And its not going to be another adc so yay to that

Grytorm

2014-07-14, 09:15 PM

Want to run Poppy Urgot duo lane with me?

That sounds like a wonderful idea. And I have been planning on playing Poppy. Of course I a terrible and not particularly connected to rest of community.

ex cathedra

2014-07-14, 09:35 PM

Grytorm

2014-07-14, 10:14 PM

Qwertystop

2014-07-14, 10:20 PM

How would I go about getting more connected and involved with more games in the GitP Mumble group? I have received invites from Godskook a few times and will start accepting from now on. And I finally have mumble working. So should I just leave mumble on, or just accept more games and end up on more friend lists? I'm probably going to be pretty quite in games because I like having the TV on and my family talks around me often so I plan on leaving the microphone off most of the time.

Are you aware that push-to-talk is a thing? Because it is. Set it to mouse3 (clicking the wheel) or alt or shift or whatever you've got unbound-but-convenient, push it when you're talking, doesn't transmit the rest of the time.

And yeah - hang around in mumble, chat, get into games that way (plenty of times people don't invite their full list until they've asked around in mumble).

Artanis

2014-07-14, 10:41 PM

Which mumble room would be a good place to hang out while waiting?

Grytorm

2014-07-14, 10:43 PM

Interesting. I will figure that out. Also where should I default to on Mumble when not in a game or other group.

Godskook

2014-07-14, 10:49 PM

The LoL team or Lounge rooms seem to be generally accepted places to chill if you're wanting to socialize or group.

Additionally, you can try joining our League chat room in the client, called "GITP".

Ionbound

2014-07-14, 10:56 PM

Hey, I'm actually curious about this: If Riot saw fit to replace Shyvana's E debuff with a .25 or so second stun, how broken would that make her?

thracian

2014-07-14, 11:02 PM

People just sorta default wherever. For example, myself and my IRL friends typically hang out in Mumble Rules.

PersonMan

2014-07-14, 11:52 PM

Hey, I'm actually curious about this: If Riot saw fit to replace Shyvana's E debuff with a .25 or so second stun, how broken would that make her?

It would be a nerf, in my view. % of HP magic damage = suddenly you're a mixed damage bruiser and can melt people with tons of health/armor. .25 second stun is neat but not worth losing all the deeps.

Anarion

2014-07-15, 12:01 AM

It would be a nerf, in my view. % of HP magic damage = suddenly you're a mixed damage bruiser and can melt people with tons of health/armor. .25 second stun is neat but not worth losing all the deeps.

I tend to agree here. While a short stun would allow Shyvana to be even more disruptive than her current iteration in teamfights, it would greatly reduce her ability to be dangerous while going full tank. And it's that's high damage even while tanking a whole team that makes her so scary.

abadguy

2014-07-15, 02:37 AM

http://i.imgur.com/FMXKdvs.png

First time I managed this. I pride myself in exactitude (200 games sharp to D1 - today was 9-1 with the loss being a game where top and mid both ragequit after dying once). This is both, my highest solo queue ranking and the largest amount of ranked games I've played in a single season (not counting the pre-Season 1 days).

Congrats Eldariel! What's your top 3 most played champions/roles?

Phoenix Udyr favors Quillcoat or spirit stone, tiger loves Feral.

The new Ancient Golem/Quillcoat is an indirect nerf for Phoenix Udyr. Clear times were noticeably slower and sustain is much lower as well - the old HP/Mana return mechanic topped him up much faster. Loss of Tenacity also means more ineffective ganks before you acquire Mercs. Wriggles+Spirit Stone OTOH opens up as a better option as a jungle item for faster jungle clear, sustain and more damage, then going tanky items after. I feel Tiger Udyr better going SotEL now (since Tiger Udyr implies you're going down the damage route anyway).

The new jungle item change has really compartmentalised junglers, not necessarily in a good way. Tanky AP junglers (off hand I can only think of Elise and Nunu) may now prefer to go Spectral Wraith for better objective control. As someone else mentioned, Ancient Golem change was really aimed at helping slow/single target clear tanky junglers. Might try Gangplank again now.

lord_khaine

2014-07-15, 05:03 AM

The new jungle item change has really compartmentalised junglers, not necessarily in a good way. Tanky AP junglers (off hand I can only think of Elise and Nunu) may now prefer to go Spectral Wraith for better objective control. As someone else mentioned, Ancient Golem change was really aimed at helping slow/single target clear tanky junglers. Might try Gangplank again now.

Slow single target..? Leona for President Jungler!!!

And on a side note, i really think we should stop naming the threads after those horrible bloody books, instead i suggest "Eye of Vel'Koz" as the name on our next thread :smalltongue:

Eldariel

2014-07-15, 05:14 AM

Congrats Eldariel! What's your top 3 most played champions/roles?

Ah, I play mid > jungle > support in that order. My 3 most played champs for each role:
Mid: Syndra, Anivia, Kassadin
Jungle: Jarvan, Vi, Lee
Support: Syndra, Braum, Alistar
Top: Warwick, Ryze, Malph/Singed (2 games each)
AD: Kog'Maw, Corki/Ezreal/Twitch (1 game each)

Most played overall this season are Syndra, Anivia and Jarvan. My OP.GG page (http://euw.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=elealar) if you're interested in more precise numbers.

mrcarter11

2014-07-15, 05:49 AM

And on a side note, i really think we should stop naming the threads after those horrible bloody books, instead i suggest "Eye of Vel'Koz" as the name on our next thread :smalltongue:
Several things..
1. The books are pretty good/okay
2. If you don't like them, that's your opinion but state the information as such, instead of as fact, unless you have evidence you can use to back your claim.
3. The titles are voted on, if you don't like them, try to gather votes for something else.
4. We alternate I believe, so in theory you could try to get it picked for the next thread, but I'll vote for whatever is against it simply for this post, but hey, that's democracy.

Ah, I play mid > jungle > support in that order. My 3 most played champs for each role:
Mid: Syndra, Anivia, Kassadin
Jungle: Jarvan, Vi, Lee
Support: Syndra, Braum, Alistar
Top: Warwick, Ryze, Malph/Singed (2 games each)
AD: Kog'Maw, Corki/Ezreal/Twitch (1 game each)

Most played overall this season are Syndra, Anivia and Jarvan. My OP.GG page (http://euw.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=elealar) if you're interested in more precise numbers.

Out of curiosity, why do you think you enjoy playing your most played for each role. What is it that makes you constantly keep going back to that champion?

Eldariel

2014-07-15, 06:28 AM

Out of curiosity, why do you think you enjoy playing your most played for each role. What is it that makes you constantly keep going back to that champion?

Well, there's two aspects to this. Champions I enjoy:
- I like mechanically complex champions that specifically reward mechanical mastery. This allows me to constantly improve myself and win games with simple skill.
- I especially gravitate towards long range zone control champions, in part because that's the archetype I've played the most. Though this is not restrictive of course.
- As a midlaner, I obviously gravitate towards champions I can play in mid.

Honestly, I could see myself enjoying every single champion in the game. I take time to practice each individual champion properly but with unlimited time I'd probably try to master every champ. Everything offers something and my champion pool is far wider than what I've showcased this season in ranked (e.g. in midlane, I have 0 games with TF, Karthus, Xerath, Orianna, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Karma, Galio, all champs I'm reasonably good on). However, since this is specifically me trying to climb ranked, another set of considerations enters the equation based on my desire to maximize my chances of winning:
- I play champions I've got polished mechanics on. I rarely practice champions while climbing in ranked (now that I'm D1, I might start doing more of that). That's why I played so much Syndra and Anivia in particular - both are mechanically deep champions that I've more or less mastered.
- I play champions that maximize my chances of carrying the game. Principally the reason I played Syndra over Anivia this season is because EUW solo queue is infested with assassin players. You play vs. Fizz/Yasuo like 50% of the time and I've seen Katarina, Talon, Pantheon, Zed, Kassadin, Akali and LeBlanc all played mid this season. The remaining mids are usually Ziggs/Orianna/TF/Syndra/Anivia/Kayle, but outside Ziggs those are much more rare. With the junglers being principally the aggressive gankers (Lee, Evelynn, Elise, J4, Vi, Maokai, Wukong, Pantheon), lane dominance and lane safety lead to me preferring one of the game's strongest lane bullies, Syndra.
- Obviously enemy picks and our picks have something to do with my picks too. I played Vi when we had Yasuo or enemy had Kassadin. I played Lee vs. Akali, Anivia vs. Kayle, etc. The easy match-ups. In bot I always played Syndra Support ('cause people don't know how to play against ~1200 distance high speed skillshot stun that penetrates creepwave and she can juggle enemy buffs in the start for value) except when it wasn't available in which case I defaulted to Braum > Alistar/Thresh/Lulu.

Mostly tho, champion familiarity and maximizing my chances of winning are the driving force behind my ranked champion picks. I began to gravitate towards J4 in the jungle when I noticed I kept winning more with him for whatever reason. I don't even know why but it seems like Vi draws trolls (three 4v5s + some rager games with her) and Skarner draws horribly losing lanes.

Winthur

2014-07-15, 06:33 AM

The books are pretty good/okay

in the same vein as r.a. salvatore maybe

mrcarter11

2014-07-15, 06:46 AM

Well, there's two aspects to this. Champions I enjoy:
- I like mechanically complex champions that specifically reward mechanical mastery. This allows me to constantly improve myself and win games with simple skill.
- I especially gravitate towards long range zone control champions, in part because that's the archetype I've played the most. Though this is not restrictive of course.
- As a midlaner, I obviously gravitate towards champions I can play in mid.

Honestly, I could see myself enjoying every single champion in the game. I take time to practice each individual champion properly but with unlimited time I'd probably try to master every champ. Everything offers something and my champion pool is far wider than what I've showcased this season in ranked (e.g. in midlane, I have 0 games with TF, Karthus, Xerath, Orianna, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Karma, Galio, all champs I'm reasonably good on). However, since this is specifically me trying to climb ranked, another set of considerations enters the equation based on my desire to maximize my chances of winning:
- I play champions I've got polished mechanics on. I rarely practice champions while climbing in ranked (now that I'm D1, I might start doing more of that). That's why I played so much Syndra and Anivia in particular - both are mechanically deep champions that I've more or less mastered.
- I play champions that maximize my chances of carrying the game. Principally the reason I played Syndra over Anivia this season is because EUW solo queue is infested with assassin players. You play vs. Fizz/Yasuo like 50% of the time and I've seen Katarina, Talon, Pantheon, Zed, Kassadin, Akali and LeBlanc all played mid this season. The remaining mids are usually Ziggs/Orianna/TF/Syndra/Anivia/Kayle, but outside Ziggs those are much more rare. With the junglers being principally the aggressive gankers (Lee, Evelynn, Elise, J4, Vi, Maokai, Wukong, Pantheon), lane dominance and lane safety lead to me preferring one of the game's strongest lane bullies, Syndra.
- Obviously enemy picks and our picks have something to do with my picks too. I played Vi when we had Yasuo or enemy had Kassadin. I played Lee vs. Akali, Anivia vs. Kayle, etc. The easy match-ups. In bot I always played Syndra Support ('cause people don't know how to play against ~1200 distance high speed skillshot stun that penetrates creepwave and she can juggle enemy buffs in the start for value) except when it wasn't available in which case I defaulted to Braum > Alistar/Thresh/Lulu.

Mostly tho, champion familiarity and maximizing my chances of winning are the driving force behind my ranked champion picks. I began to gravitate towards J4 in the jungle when I noticed I kept winning more with him for whatever reason. I don't even know why but it seems like Vi draws trolls (three 4v5s + some rager games with her) and Skarner draws horribly losing lanes.

As you stated, you have at least a decent level of skill on several other well known zone control type mages, so what stopped you from playing them more. You had mentioned you had more polished mechanics on Syndra and Anivia, which would totally explain part of it, but I assume there would be a reason you have that higher level of play on those champs, which would generally be that you played them more. I guess what I'm trying to get it, as what caused that gravitation in the first place.
In a second more closed minded thought, do you think Syndra or Anivia function better as zone control or mid lane bullys then say, Xerath, Ori, or Ziggs?
Sorry if this seems random, what you talked about relates to a paper I'm writing, and so I just started asking questions.

in the same vein as r.a. salvatore maybe

Meh, tried to read his stuff, never really liked it/got into it. I feel GoT comes across better and is much easier for your average audience to access. I also enjoy the lack of central characters and the utter lack of truly heroic characters, with the exception of maybe Jon.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-15, 07:15 AM

why did i have to quit league just before doom bots

Eldariel

2014-07-15, 08:37 AM

As you stated, you have at least a decent level of skill on several other well known zone control type mages, so what stopped you from playing them more. You had mentioned you had more polished mechanics on Syndra and Anivia, which would totally explain part of it, but I assume there would be a reason you have that higher level of play on those champs, which would generally be that you played them more. I guess what I'm trying to get it, as what caused that gravitation in the first place.
In a second more closed minded thought, do you think Syndra or Anivia function better as zone control or mid lane bullys then say, Xerath, Ori, or Ziggs?
Sorry if this seems random, what you talked about relates to a paper I'm writing, and so I just started asking questions.

Honestly, Anivia was my second big champion purchase and first proper mage (Janna was my first real champion). So the reason I picked Anivia was 'cause she happened to be free that one week and I instantly fell in love with her style of play, how complex and by extension rewarding to learn her gameplay style was and the extremely high power she had when everything was going right. In short, she was the burst mage with engaging playstyle I had been looking for. Since I started with Anivia about 4-5 years ago, my mechanics are obviously on an entirely different level than what I can pull off on most champions and I've been in just about every scenario with her so I'm incredibly comfortable playing Anivia. Even with a long break it doesn't take an awful lot to refresh those abilities.

Syndra, I started playing her more fairly recently and she's the most recent champion I've practiced heavily on. She also has an engaging playstyle and I was drawn to the way she synergises her 3 basic skills for an extremely versatile and powerful toolbox - the kind of thing I love learning. I usually learn one champion properly at a time and since Syndra was the latest champion I had begun learning before starting ranked for this season, she was obviously on the top of the line for what to play.

Now, the metagame was at such a position that I heavily preferred Syndra. I can win with Anivia but many of the lane match-ups are hard and very unforgiving, while Syndra is fine against basically anything and can dominate basically any champion if you outplay them. That's why I don't pick Anivia blind but I want to know what the enemy mid is playing if I'm running her usually (I was picking her into champs like Kayle, Lulu, Orianna, etc.). Syndra gives me a cushion to make up for my rusty mechanics.

As for why those two, I simply have more and more up-to-date experience with them than with the other champions. Knowing a champion and being intimately familiar with every match-up and nuance are two different things; I cannot claim the latter on any other mage of the group. When I'm climbing solo queue I want to minimize the risk and as such, I pick champions I'm extremely experienced on to ensure I can deal with whatever jungle/mid combo they run (and you can run into all sorts of weird stuff in solo queue). Also, a lane bully like Syndra is extremely well-suited for solo queue where snowballing early often leads to fairly easy wins and where you can gain huge advantages if you can pull enemy jungler to you without dying.

Short version, I felt Syndra in particular is the champion that offers me the best combination of experience, safety and game domination potential. Do note though that my champion choice criteria for climbing ranked and for just playing differ though - while climbing ranked, I specifically emphasize the attributes that I feel make it the easiest to get reliable wins in solo queue. If I were playing Normals (where I don't really care about winning or losing) I probably wouldn't play a single game with my best champions, and if I were playing Team Ranked with a strong team I'd use a much more varied set of picks to fit the needs of the teamcomp. Such considerations are all secondary in solo queue though and since I was playing to win, my considerations mirror that. How I pick which champions to start learning is mostly which champions I find enjoyable and that tends to mostly come down to their playstyle - champions like Syndra, Anivia, Xerath, etc. with synergistic kits that require a lot from the player are what I enjoy playing the most.

Short version:
1. My primary grounds for picking a champion in ranked is mostly sticking to champions I'm a consummate master of. I strongly believe one's own mastery of whichever champion one is playing is the biggest contributor for victory in this game.
2. I think Syndra in particular is an extremely safe pick. Anivia to a lesser extent too, but Syndra doesn't really have bad lane match-ups. You always have the room to outplay your opponent.
3. I think Syndra is one of the stronger laners right now. I don't think she's necessarily stronger overall than Orianna, Xerath or Ziggs but I think her kill potential on lane is higher which is huge in solo queue. However, I wouldn't spam her like this if I weren't extremely experienced on her - there are other snowbally lane bullies (Fizz, Talon, etc.) that I don't play due to my lack of mastery on said champions. When I play to win I always strive to pick champions I'm experienced with first and foremost with everything else being secondary.

Antonok

2014-07-15, 08:41 AM

why did i have to quit league just before doom bots

You're not missing out on much. They can still easily be baited, and are easy to beat just by splitpushing.

Only things you're missing is trying to dodge massive aoes and random garens popping out of bushes (damn you doom zyra).

mrcarter11

2014-07-15, 08:56 AM

Honestly, Anivia was my second big champion purchase and first proper mage (Janna was my first real champion). So the reason I picked Anivia was 'cause she happened to be free that one week and I instantly fell in love with her style of play, how complex and by extension rewarding to learn her gameplay style was and the extremely high power she had when everything was going right. In short, she was the burst mage with engaging playstyle I had been looking for. Since I started with Anivia about 4-5 years ago, my mechanics are obviously on an entirely different level than what I can pull off on most champions and I've been in just about every scenario with her so I'm incredibly comfortable playing Anivia. Even with a long break it doesn't take an awful lot to refresh those abilities.

Syndra, I started playing her more fairly recently and she's the most recent champion I've practiced heavily on. She also has an engaging playstyle and I was drawn to the way she synergises her 3 basic skills for an extremely versatile and powerful toolbox - the kind of thing I love learning. I usually learn one champion properly at a time and since Syndra was the latest champion I had begun learning before starting ranked for this season, she was obviously on the top of the line for what to play.

Now, the metagame was at such a position that I heavily preferred Syndra. I can win with Anivia but many of the lane match-ups are hard and very unforgiving, while Syndra is fine against basically anything and can dominate basically any champion if you outplay them. That's why I don't pick Anivia blind but I want to know what the enemy mid is playing if I'm running her usually (I was picking her into champs like Kayle, Lulu, Orianna, etc.). Syndra gives me a cushion to make up for my rusty mechanics.

As for why those two, I simply have more and more up-to-date experience with them than with the other champions. Knowing a champion and being intimately familiar with every match-up and nuance are two different things; I cannot claim the latter on any other mage of the group. When I'm climbing solo queue I want to minimize the risk and as such, I pick champions I'm extremely experienced on to ensure I can deal with whatever jungle/mid combo they run (and you can run into all sorts of weird stuff in solo queue). Also, a lane bully like Syndra is extremely well-suited for solo queue where snowballing early often leads to fairly easy wins and where you can gain huge advantages if you can pull enemy jungler to you without dying.

Short version, I felt Syndra in particular is the champion that offers me the best combination of experience, safety and game domination potential. Do note though that my champion choice criteria for climbing ranked and for just playing differ though - while climbing ranked, I specifically emphasize the attributes that I feel make it the easiest to get reliable wins in solo queue. If I were playing Normals (where I don't really care about winning or losing) I probably wouldn't play a single game with my best champions, and if I were playing Team Ranked with a strong team I'd use a much more varied set of picks to fit the needs of the teamcomp. Such considerations are all secondary in solo queue though and since I was playing to win, my considerations mirror that. How I pick which champions to start learning is mostly which champions I find enjoyable and that tends to mostly come down to their playstyle - champions like Syndra, Anivia, Xerath, etc. with synergistic kits that require a lot from the player are what I enjoy playing the most.

Short version:
1. My primary grounds for picking a champion in ranked is mostly sticking to champions I'm a consummate master of. I strongly believe one's own mastery of whichever champion one is playing is the biggest contributor for victory in this game.
2. I think Syndra in particular is an extremely safe pick. Anivia to a lesser extent too, but Syndra doesn't really have bad lane match-ups. You always have the room to outplay your opponent.
3. I think Syndra is one of the stronger laners right now. I don't think she's necessarily stronger overall than Orianna, Xerath or Ziggs but I think her kill potential on lane is higher which is huge in solo queue. However, I wouldn't spam her like this if I weren't extremely experienced on her - there are other snowbally lane bullies (Fizz, Talon, etc.) that I don't play due to my lack of mastery on said champions. When I play to win I always strive to pick champions I'm experienced with first and foremost with everything else being secondary.

Without dragging this out any, I'd just like to say thank you for the in depth post, it actually answered a lot of what I was looking for in terms of information. So once again, thank you.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-15, 09:01 AM

You're not missing out on much. They can still easily be baited, and are easy to beat just by splitpushing.

Only things you're missing is trying to dodge massive aoes and random garens popping out of bushes (damn you doom zyra).

but but but

dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom

(will totally come back just for the doom bots and then quit again)

Antonok

2014-07-15, 09:13 AM

but but but

dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom

Only real doom is ziggs bot.

Has nocturnes ult sight reduction coupled with ziggs' range. Good pratice for dodging skill shots actually.

Ionbound

2014-07-15, 09:42 AM

Anarion

2014-07-15, 09:47 AM

Well, since Ezreal is on free week, I decided to practice CS with him, and I had 58 CS at 10 minutes. Which is a major improvement. This time, I had the runes and masteries that I use for most of my champions, so they were the ones I would use in a real game. What CS should I be shooting for regularly at 10? I know it's not 58, but I'd like to have a target number.

Your target number is 100. Always. You can set some number like 70 or 80 as "good enough" in your head, but the target is always 100. It's like if you were playing an archery minigame from Legend of Zelda or something. There might be some number of hits that's good enough to get the piece of heart, but you still know what perfect looks like and you're trying to get as close to that as possible.

efdf

2014-07-15, 10:43 AM

Yeah but after a certain point you should stop because it's not worth it anymore.

When I get home I'll post my number (0 clue what it'll be because I've never done this before) and I would encourage you to stop once your average gets close enough to be comparable.

Artanis

2014-07-15, 11:02 AM

Well, just dodged a bullet with what could probably be called a queue dodge. At level 20 :smallfrown:

I join the game, call ADC, see that another player has already instalocked Tristana. I mention that I had called it, prepared for my usual "well fine, guess I'll (insert whatever spot is left) then" when the Tristana says, "you should've been less worried about typing and more worried about clicking".

I decide to let the pick timer run out without hovering anything.

While waiting for the resulting penalty timer to run out, I looked the guy up on lolking. Every game in his record there has him as a Hydra-toting Tristana.

...yeah, glad I didn't waste half an hour on that guy :smallsigh:

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-15, 11:07 AM

A quick tip, run ahead of your first minion wave and draw the aggro of the minions in the enemy minion wave. When you run back behind your own minions, they'll all re-aggro on the first minion in your own wave, while your minions will diffuse their aggro across the wave. This gets the enemy wave pushing in your direction by default, even though the numbers of minions are equal, sets up a freeze to make it easier to last hit against no one pushing in the opposite direction. Tip I learned from the 2v0 laneswap meta.

This post maybe helped someone who wasn't Firedaemon33 learn how to freeze lane.

(Also if you're trying to freeze make your ranged/cannon minions 'waste' auto attacks by letting them attack a low health minion and then killing it while the particle is in flight, but that's probably too much focus for someone at Firedaemon's level.)

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-15, 11:09 AM

Glad it worked out for you, but sometimes not getting the role you wanted is a good opportunity to practice a roll or champion you are not really familiar with. But really? Hydra on tristana... did he win any of those games? You can't really miss the big (Melee only) sign the hydra has....I just.... oh well trolls will be trolls.

Godskook

2014-07-15, 11:35 AM

I join the game, call ADC, see that another player has already instalocked Tristana. I mention that I had called it, prepared for my usual "well fine, guess I'll (insert whatever spot is left) then" when the Tristana says, "you should've been less worried about typing and more worried about clicking".

What I think of whenever anyone claims to have "called it". (http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20130429) By your description, he already locked in his choice before he had time to read your "call"; can you really even pretend to claim "called it" when the other guy picked before he even knew you did so?

Also, keep in mind that League chat is notoriously bad at deciding chronology. Sometimes one player's chat is posted before another player even unlocks the room, while other times, two players can both type something at nearly the same time and neither will be able to determine who actually said it first, since the client posts chat messages locally before it posts the to the group.

NineThePuma

2014-07-15, 12:00 PM

Only real doom is ziggs bot.

Has nocturnes ult sight reduction coupled with ziggs' range. Good pratice for dodging skill shots actually.

That is NOT HOW DOOM BOTS WORK.

Please do not provide inaccurate information regarding their function ESPECIALLY if you have not played against them, and are merely providing information ripped from screen caps.

Doom Bots each get their "in built" Doom. For fiddles, this means that, post 6, a random "specter" Fiddles will ult from the fog of war every so often, usually onto low health targets. This does not change regardless of "doom bot" difficulty you are on.

On Doombot difficulty 2 (Double Bomb), they ADDITIONALLY get another random doom from a pool. This additional random doom is variable, rather than fixed, and changes each time it dies. These range from Nocturne Paranoia fear to Evelynn's passive to an unholy mix of Shaco's ult and LeBlanc's passive.

Doombot difficulty 3 (Quintuple Bomb), they get ANOTHER random Doom from the pool, and each time they die they trade in their "oldest" doom for a new one.

They ALSO have EXTREMELY pumped up stats and abilities; I have reason to believe that they are given completed mastery pages (as in, they get maxed out pages) and draw from two rune pages at once. I know that Karthus, at least, has his Q on a CD so short that it's primarily held back by cast time. I have not particularly done an in depth study of each doom bot, but that's my general feeling.

Artanis

2014-07-15, 12:02 PM

Pre-30, it generally winds up "first-call, first-serve" in large part because many players simply don't feel comfortable enough in their skill at other spots. When there's a conflict, it generally gets worked out, and like I said, I was completely willing to go to another spot. It happens plenty, and I always offer to go elsewhere when it does, and the insta-locker usually apologizes. I dodged because rather than being civilized about a common situation and working things out, he instead went straight to ******* mode.

And yes, he had won a few of those games, but it's fairly obvious from his match history that his teams won despite him, not because of him.

Anarion

2014-07-15, 01:24 PM

This post maybe helped someone who wasn't Firedaemon33 learn how to freeze lane.

Didn't know that bit about picking up and dropping aggro to start the lane. I assume this will be worth at least a division increase in my rank when playing top lane. :smallwink:

Pre-30, it generally winds up "first-call, first-serve" in large part because many players simply don't feel comfortable enough in their skill at other spots. When there's a conflict, it generally gets worked out, and like I said, I was completely willing to go to another spot. It happens plenty, and I always offer to go elsewhere when it does, and the insta-locker usually apologizes. I dodged because rather than being civilized about a common situation and working things out, he instead went straight to ******* mode.

And yes, he had won a few of those games, but it's fairly obvious from his match history that his teams won despite him, not because of him.

In my opinion, when you dodge, you're pretty much always in the wrong. It may have worked out for you and you may have avoided an unpleasant game. However, I still feel that dodging puts you in the wrong because you just cancelled a game for 4 other people.

What I constantly fail to understand in League of Legends psychology is why, when one person acts like a "troll" other people respond to the "troll" by screwing over the remainder of the team. This manifests in pre-game with people who start arguing in chat or dodge, making it very difficult to get games. It also manifests during games where people will screw their entire team (including themselves) in order to "punish" the one person that they don't like.

I don't get it.

Winthur

2014-07-15, 01:44 PM

In my opinion, when you dodge, you're pretty much always in the wrong. It may have worked out for you and you may have avoided an unpleasant game. However, I still feel that dodging puts you in the wrong because you just cancelled a game for 4 other people.
ranked queue times aren't very long on low levels at all so cry me a river here. playing with one guy going clairvoyance/clarity mundo for minimum 20 minutes is way more of a chore than re-taking a champ select screen for 5 minutes tops, and none of the other three people are going to have any fun in that game, it's just going to turn into "well, whatever, let's just sit in fountain and not even try to win, report X, gg". or worse, they flame other people than the troll. i'm already punished myself by losing rank points or a promotion game by dodging, not to mention the dodge timer. there have been many champ selects where i was perfectly willing to orally pleasure the voluntary dodger for being the savior of my time, sanity, and elo. dodgers are wonderful people. also dodger (https://www.youtube.com/user/PressHeartToContinue) has sexy feet.

sure people in game who decide that "this X doesn't deserve to win" are annoying and i'd like to apply a flamethrower to them while singing 'panzerlied' out loud, but dodging is fair game.

Ashen Lilies

2014-07-15, 01:50 PM

Didn't know that bit about picking up and dropping aggro to start the lane. I assume this will be worth at least a division increase in my rank when playing top lane. :smallwink:

Yus. Pretty much any time the lane resets you can start a freeze or slow push this way. You can even freeze if your wave is slightly larger/healthier, since your melee minions will die quicker to focus fire and that will snowball them in the other direction pretty well. Getting a slow push in the middle of the lane is really great, since they don't get safety of the tower and you can bully them around in that zone, but you're still building up a larger minion wave that you can slam into their tower and dive them with when you need to.

If you're shoving, they get safety (unless you're playing a ranged champion, Gragas or Renekton, who are /really/ good at harassing under tower and thus want to keep the enemy trapped there if they can without getting ganked) and you only get normal sized minion waves to work with, and if you're freezing the regular way, you're usually relying on them having a larger minion wave that can push into you, which can be awkward for potential fights if their minion wave is large enough, and especially awkward if you kill them or make them back and suddenly need to push.

All that said, I only pay attention to this stuff in game 0% of the time, which is why I'm bad.

Artanis

2014-07-15, 02:07 PM

ranked queue times aren't very long on low levels at all so cry me a river here. playing with one guy going clairvoyance/clarity mundo for minimum 20 minutes is way more of a chore than re-taking a champ select screen for 5 minutes tops, and none of the other three people are going to have any fun in that game, it's just going to turn into "well, whatever, let's just sit in fountain and not even try to win, report X, gg". or worse, they flame other people than the troll. i'm already punished myself by losing rank points or a promotion game by dodging, not to mention the dodge timer. there have been many champ selects where i was perfectly willing to orally pleasure the voluntary dodger for being the savior of my time, sanity, and elo. dodgers are wonderful people. also dodger (https://www.youtube.com/user/PressHeartToContinue) has sexy feet.

sure people in game who decide that "this X doesn't deserve to win" are annoying and i'd like to apply a flamethrower to them while singing 'panzerlied' out loud, but dodging is fair game.
Exactly.

My two choices were, A) waste half an hour for everybody on an inevitable loss* just so I could report one guy, or B) waste at most two minutes' of everybody's time as they sit in queue again (plus five minutes of my own for the dodge timer).

*Even if this guy wasn't an utter troll, I was already being forced onto jungle anyways - at which I am worse than useless - so our chances were slim at best regardless. That definitely contributed to my decision.

Math_Mage

2014-07-15, 02:12 PM

Ionbound

2014-07-15, 02:15 PM

Artanis

2014-07-15, 02:19 PM

Dodging saves 8 other people from playing with that one *******. It's completely different from anything that happens in the game, because things that happen in game don't cancel the game, they ruin it. My only caveat is that a lot of those people are really quite manageable.
Agreed. Like I said, it usually gets worked out. This time, I felt it was worth my first-ever (and, God willing, last-ever) dodge.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-15, 02:24 PM

Well, I had an awful game. I let someone else top, because I try not to be an *******, and, since Ez is on free and I wanted to try him, I picked him. And, since it was my first time playing the champ, I kinda sucked. And, during the entire game, the midlaner was giving me ****. So that was a bad game.

Getting **** from other players is sort of a requirement when playing league, for example I just had a game where I went 0/0/14 in lane as support Thresh and my ADC (an ezreal funnily enough) started to yell at me, flame and accuse me of feeding despite ir being my first death (kind of stupid though, I got caught refreshing my ward at dragon). Don't take it personal and move on. If whoever is flaming gets too annoying simply mute them though I prefer not to because sometimes even toxic players make good calls through the chat and I have a somewhat morbid fascination with flamers, sometimes they can be very creative.

Agreed. Like I said, it usually gets worked out. This time, I felt it was worth my first-ever (and, God willing, last-ever) dodge.

Famous last words.

Ionbound

2014-07-15, 02:27 PM

Getting **** from other players is sort of a requirement when playing league, for example I just had a game where I went 0/0/14 in lane as support Thresh and my ADC (an ezreal funnily enough) started to yell at me, flame and accuse me of feeding despite ir being my first death (kind of stupid though, I got caught refreshing my ward at dragon). Don't take it personal and move on. If whoever is flaming gets too annoying simply mute them though I prefer not to because sometimes even toxic players make good calls through the chat and I have a somewhat morbid fascination with flamers, sometimes they can be very creative.

Which is hilarious because my support was a Thresh...But muting is a good idea. I usually end up yelling back at them, which just stresses everyone out.

NineThePuma

2014-07-15, 04:30 PM

If you are someone who has a low tolerance for bull**** and verbal abuse, I firmly suggest that at the first sign someone's gonna be an ass, mute them. After a certain point, you are ALSO at fault for continuing to subject yourself to the abuse.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-15, 04:33 PM

Patch 4.12 notes (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/19016) R.I.P Lucian?

Siosilvar

2014-07-15, 05:13 PM

As far as dodges go, it's fairly accepted strategy to dodge 1 game a day if it looks bad, because losing 5 minutes and 3 LP (or even 10 of each for the second dodge) in ranked is better than 40 minutes and 15 LP.

I know I, for one, spend entirely too much time clicking ignore buttons and jumping queues.

They ALSO have EXTREMELY pumped up stats and abilities; I have reason to believe that they are given completed mastery pages (as in, they get maxed out pages) and draw from two rune pages at once. I know that Karthus, at least, has his Q on a CD so short that it's primarily held back by cast time. I have not particularly done an in depth study of each doom bot, but that's my general feeling.

I believe it's more accurately just free stats; 2 AD + 4 AP + 1.5 resists per level and some bonus health or something like that; all the bots seem to get it, since Fiddlesticks has ~120 AD at 18 and Ezreal has 102 AP with just a Triforce.

And I think Karthus's Q isn't actually being cast that fast, he just gets free ones if you're near him and he's in aggro mode.

Doom bots also all Gate to Dragon every 10 minutes, which gives you an opportunity to push. I hear they do Baron but I haven't had a game last long enough for that to happen.

Ivellius

2014-07-15, 05:17 PM

Patch 4.12 notes (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/19016) R.I.P Lucian?

Welcome back Cow.

Antonok

2014-07-15, 05:42 PM

Manamune AND essense reaver buffs... could jayce be making a comeback soon?

Grytorm

2014-07-15, 05:49 PM

Wasn't there going to be an item that gave percent AD? Or am I insane?

TechnOkami

2014-07-15, 05:49 PM

Manamune AND essense reaver buffs... could jayce be making a comeback soon?

COME NOW, USE ME AS YOUR PERSONAL PUNCHING BAG (as long as you play Jayce).

lord_khaine

2014-07-15, 05:49 PM

Dodging saves 8 other people from playing with that one *******. It's completely different from anything that happens in the game, because things that happen in game don't cancel the game, they ruin it. My only caveat is that a lot of those people are really quite manageable.

technically i would just say it changes what other 8 people are forced to endure it.

Winthur

2014-07-15, 05:51 PM

Patch 4.12 notes (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/19016) R.I.P Lucian?

http://i.imgur.com/0G2vMQG.jpg
yeah rip

Siosilvar

2014-07-15, 05:55 PM

Wasn't there going to be an item that gave percent AD? Or am I insane?

That was thrown around on the PBE as a Bloodthirster buff. Looks like they're trying to get it back to first item status, though, which is unlikely to happen unless they bring the cost back down. It's simply too close to IE's cost to be worth buying; 80AD + 37% extra auto damage is going to be better than just about anything they could put on BT. It's closer now, at least.

COME NOW, USE ME AS YOUR PERSONAL PUNCHING BAG (as long as you play Jayce).

this is starting to get out of hand

But on the bright side, I am starting to pick him up again, and I'm willing to do this to get some League in without having to deal with soloQ

Antonok

2014-07-15, 06:27 PM

COME NOW, USE ME AS YOUR PERSONAL PUNCHING BAG (as long as you play Jayce).

That was kind of a semi-serious question. I know those were 2 items he favored and knowing what item buffs can do with champions (triforce and corki for example).

Forum Explorer

2014-07-15, 06:29 PM

In my opinion, when you dodge, you're pretty much always in the wrong. It may have worked out for you and you may have avoided an unpleasant game. However, I still feel that dodging puts you in the wrong because you just cancelled a game for 4 other people.

What I constantly fail to understand in League of Legends psychology is why, when one person acts like a "troll" other people respond to the "troll" by screwing over the remainder of the team. This manifests in pre-game with people who start arguing in chat or dodge, making it very difficult to get games. It also manifests during games where people will screw their entire team (including themselves) in order to "punish" the one person that they don't like.

I don't get it.

Oh, not at all. Dodging is more rare then not, particularly in ranked games. And in ranked games it's never done lightly. It's almost always been because of some troll. And yeah, I'd much rather just wait a few extra seconds (or even 5 minutes) then have to endure 20 minutes of this ***hole who decided to **** us all over rather then play the game. And everyone on the losing team also gets the pleasure of losing an extra 15 LP or so. So yeah, people who dodge are basically my hero. I really wish they could add a surrender button in ranked games team select so the team can avoid trolls like that without penalty.

Arguing in chat, well it can be annoying but it often reveals a troll vs a guy who just has a different idea. Like we had a guy instant lock Teemo support and an argument started up. But he did have reasons, and admitted that while Teemo support is hardly optimal it's not useless as far as supports go. Other times the argument has revealed that, yes this guy is a **** who is out to ruin our day. Which resulted in a dodge which saved everyone's time.

In game messing with people because one team member bothers you, well that's just another form of trolling in my book. And it can be pretty absurd too. Sometimes the other guy didn't actually do anything, or even made a good call that the other guy disagreed with.

ranked queue times aren't very long on low levels at all so cry me a river here. playing with one guy going clairvoyance/clarity mundo for minimum 20 minutes is way more of a chore than re-taking a champ select screen for 5 minutes tops, and none of the other three people are going to have any fun in that game, it's just going to turn into "well, whatever, let's just sit in fountain and not even try to win, report X, gg". or worse, they flame other people than the troll. i'm already punished myself by losing rank points or a promotion game by dodging, not to mention the dodge timer. there have been many champ selects where i was perfectly willing to orally pleasure the voluntary dodger for being the savior of my time, sanity, and elo. dodgers are wonderful people. also dodger (https://www.youtube.com/user/PressHeartToContinue) has sexy feet.

sure people in game who decide that "this X doesn't deserve to win" are annoying and i'd like to apply a flamethrower to them while singing 'panzerlied' out loud, but dodging is fair game.

I agree with this so much.

Well, I had an awful game. I let someone else top, because I try not to be an *******, and, since Ez is on free and I wanted to try him, I picked him. And, since it was my first time playing the champ, I kinda sucked. And, during the entire game, the midlaner was giving me ****. So that was a bad game.

Yeah that sucks. It can be pretty rough sometimes, I mean you're already having a bad game, and somebody yelling at you isn't going to make it better.

Siosilvar

2014-07-15, 07:11 PM

That was kind of a semi-serious question. I know those were 2 items he favored and knowing what item buffs can do with champions (triforce and corki for example).

The manamune change isn't really a buff, just a tweak, and reaver is still bad. If it were Pickaxe + Idol + Vamp, maybe I'd consider it, but I'd rather have IE + Ghostblade on anybody who wants heavy AD with CDR (yes, even though it's twice the price). You don't get any mana until you finish the item, and by that time you're looking to roam around and not be constantly autoing things for regen anyway.

Olinser

2014-07-15, 08:15 PM

Patch 4.12 notes (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/19016) R.I.P Lucian?

RIP? More like a buff. He takes a nerf to his AA range in return for a HUGE upgrade to his mobility. Seriously, from 60 mana to FREE, 4 seconds less CD, resets autoattacks, AND you can lower the cooldown by hitting people with lightslinger? A good Lucian is going to be nigh invincible to skillshot CCs and have much more freedom to dash in for a trade.

JKTrickster

2014-07-15, 09:41 PM

Folytopo

2014-07-15, 10:23 PM

What is the current wisdom on which runes to pick up first? Any guides that are still relevant?

ex cathedra

2014-07-15, 10:30 PM

RIP? More like a buff. He takes a nerf to his AA range in return for a HUGE upgrade to his mobility. Seriously, from 60 mana to FREE, 4 seconds less CD, resets autoattacks, AND you can lower the cooldown by hitting people with lightslinger? A good Lucian is going to be nigh invincible to skillshot CCs and have much more freedom to dash in for a trade.

is it really freedom if it's your only option? cuz a 50 point range difference means he won't be trading much otherwise

lucian was already balanced, these changes are definitely nonsensical and probably weak

What is the current wisdom on which runes to pick up first? Any guides that are still relevant?

it's extremely reliant on what champions you play, and those old "these will work for pretty much anyone" guides were never really worthwhile in the first place. things have changed enough that old guides are probably outdated, tho. more seal options (flat armor, scaling armor, flat hp, scaling hp), different quint options (rip lifesteal, hello armor/attack speed, same old ad/ap/movespeed), largely similar mark options (mpen/hpen/ad/as), slightly more glyph options (flat/scaling mr, flat/scaling cdr!!, scaling ap, something i'm forgetting??).

Siosilvar

2014-07-15, 10:33 PM

What is the current wisdom on which runes to pick up first? Any guides that are still relevant?

Mid lane: HPen reds, Scaling Health yellows, flat MR or scaling AP blues, flat AP quints

Anything else: AD reds, Armor yellows, flat or scaling MR blues, flat AD quints

There's plenty of customization to be found but that should get you started

Godskook

2014-07-15, 10:34 PM

In my opinion, when you dodge, you're pretty much always in the wrong. It may have worked out for you and you may have avoided an unpleasant game. However, I still feel that dodging puts you in the wrong because you just cancelled a game for 4 other people.

This is a pretty horrible opinion to have, man. Walking away from a bad situation(not a tough situation, a bad one), *ESPECIALLY* one you know you can't make better, is way better than forcing yourself and 3-8 other people(the rest of your team and the opposing team) to endure it. While this is true in basically all life situations, its even moreso true in League game lobbies, where nobody but the person dodging endures a penalty, and the dodger doesn't even endure a penalty large enough to be worth trying to endure a game with a negative team foundation.

I totally disagree with Artanis' "I called it" opinions, but he's better off dodging every game he has a disagreement in, then coming to us to sort out weither he was right or wrong in his opinion, rather than doing so mid-game rage-style with 8 other people brought along to suffer as an audience.

abadguy

2014-07-15, 11:05 PM

Honestly, Anivia was my second big champion purchase and first proper mage (Janna was my first real champion). So the reason I picked Anivia was 'cause she happened to be free that one week and I instantly fell in love with her style of play, how complex and by extension rewarding to learn her gameplay style was and the extremely high power she had when everything was going right. In short, she was the burst mage with engaging playstyle I had been looking for. Since I started with Anivia about 4-5 years ago, my mechanics are obviously on an entirely different level than what I can pull off on most champions and I've been in just about every scenario with her so I'm incredibly comfortable playing Anivia. Even with a long break it doesn't take an awful lot to refresh those abilities.

Syndra, I started playing her more fairly recently and she's the most recent champion I've practiced heavily on. She also has an engaging playstyle and I was drawn to the way she synergises her 3 basic skills for an extremely versatile and powerful toolbox - the kind of thing I love learning. I usually learn one champion properly at a time and since Syndra was the latest champion I had begun learning before starting ranked for this season, she was obviously on the top of the line for what to play.

Now, the metagame was at such a position that I heavily preferred Syndra. I can win with Anivia but many of the lane match-ups are hard and very unforgiving, while Syndra is fine against basically anything and can dominate basically any champion if you outplay them. That's why I don't pick Anivia blind but I want to know what the enemy mid is playing if I'm running her usually (I was picking her into champs like Kayle, Lulu, Orianna, etc.). Syndra gives me a cushion to make up for my rusty mechanics.

As for why those two, I simply have more and more up-to-date experience with them than with the other champions. Knowing a champion and being intimately familiar with every match-up and nuance are two different things; I cannot claim the latter on any other mage of the group. When I'm climbing solo queue I want to minimize the risk and as such, I pick champions I'm extremely experienced on to ensure I can deal with whatever jungle/mid combo they run (and you can run into all sorts of weird stuff in solo queue). Also, a lane bully like Syndra is extremely well-suited for solo queue where snowballing early often leads to fairly easy wins and where you can gain huge advantages if you can pull enemy jungler to you without dying.

Short version, I felt Syndra in particular is the champion that offers me the best combination of experience, safety and game domination potential. Do note though that my champion choice criteria for climbing ranked and for just playing differ though - while climbing ranked, I specifically emphasize the attributes that I feel make it the easiest to get reliable wins in solo queue. If I were playing Normals (where I don't really care about winning or losing) I probably wouldn't play a single game with my best champions, and if I were playing Team Ranked with a strong team I'd use a much more varied set of picks to fit the needs of the teamcomp. Such considerations are all secondary in solo queue though and since I was playing to win, my considerations mirror that. How I pick which champions to start learning is mostly which champions I find enjoyable and that tends to mostly come down to their playstyle - champions like Syndra, Anivia, Xerath, etc. with synergistic kits that require a lot from the player are what I enjoy playing the most.

Short version:
1. My primary grounds for picking a champion in ranked is mostly sticking to champions I'm a consummate master of. I strongly believe one's own mastery of whichever champion one is playing is the biggest contributor for victory in this game.
2. I think Syndra in particular is an extremely safe pick. Anivia to a lesser extent too, but Syndra doesn't really have bad lane match-ups. You always have the room to outplay your opponent.
3. I think Syndra is one of the stronger laners right now. I don't think she's necessarily stronger overall than Orianna, Xerath or Ziggs but I think her kill potential on lane is higher which is huge in solo queue. However, I wouldn't spam her like this if I weren't extremely experienced on her - there are other snowbally lane bullies (Fizz, Talon, etc.) that I don't play due to my lack of mastery on said champions. When I play to win I always strive to pick champions I'm experienced with first and foremost with everything else being secondary.

Thanks Eld, great insight. I'm interested in finding out more about how you play Syndra though. Currently I'm also a Mid>Jungle>Support player as well. Ziggs was my go-to champion but he has pretty bad match ups (to me) against AD assassin mids and has received recent nerfs, so I am looking to adding Syndra to my ranked champion pool. I've played her in blind pick normals about 20+ times. She doesn't have an escape so how is she safe? Because of her range? Would very much appreciate a guide of sorts, especially a match up guide.

Hullabaloo

2014-07-15, 11:21 PM

Why in a community known for its ragers and ***** does the tribunal or any reporting system work?

NineThePuma

2014-07-15, 11:33 PM

Most players are -reactive- *******s rather than active ones.

Hullabaloo

2014-07-15, 11:35 PM

Most players are -reactive- *******s rather than active ones.

So? report both and move on. No one fears punishment.

NineThePuma

2014-07-15, 11:42 PM

The vast majority of the player base, and pretty much everyone who actively cares about the tribunal, isn't an *******. The problem is that it is very easy to make new accounts and dodge punishment, which is why low level queues can be very very toxic.

Forum Explorer

2014-07-15, 11:57 PM

Why in a community known for its ragers and ***** does the tribunal or any reporting system work?

It does and it doesn't. It does give a threat of action, which motivates some to behave, and it does get rid of some of the worst. But they can make another account. Luckily it takes some time before they can get up to lv 30 or even be playing ranked.

Math_Mage

2014-07-16, 12:03 AM

RIP? More like a buff. He takes a nerf to his AA range in return for a HUGE upgrade to his mobility. Seriously, from 60 mana to FREE, 4 seconds less CD, resets autoattacks, AND you can lower the cooldown by hitting people with lightslinger? A good Lucian is going to be nigh invincible to skillshot CCs and have much more freedom to dash in for a trade.
Maybe if you lane top. In bot lane you get dunked on, because 500 range sucks, and then you get dunked on late-game, because 500 range still sucks.

Why in a community known for its ragers and ***** does the tribunal or any reporting system work?
Because:
a) Ragers and ***** don't use Tribunal
b) Spam voters and spam reporters get filtered out by Tribunal
c) It takes a lot of reporting to get someone into Tribunal

The real question is: "Why, in a system that allows players to make as many smurfs as they want, does the Tribunal or any ban system work?"

Hullabaloo

2014-07-16, 12:06 AM

Because:
a) Ragers and ***** don't use Tribunal
b) Spam voters and spam reporters get filtered out by Tribunal
c) It takes a lot of reporting to get someone into Tribunal

The real question is: "Why, in a system that allows players to make as many smurfs as they want, does the Tribunal or any ban system work?"

That would be great if it was in place. But the tribunal/action from it has been down for months. And alt account take place in every MMO, and it is a manageable issue, and much better then nothing.

Math_Mage

2014-07-16, 12:17 AM

That would be great if it was in place. But the tribunal/action from it has been down for months.
That's not a "why, in a community filled with ragers and *****" issue, though; that's a "why, with a broken client" issue.

abadguy

2014-07-16, 12:20 AM

Welcome back Cow.

Indeed. I don't think removing the double dmg to monsters nerf is significant. The Quillcoat would probably increase his clear time overall. Also lower mana costs = less screwed if he loses 1st blue. All these changes have brought him back somewhat, though I'm sure no where near the levels of awesome in S3 (Mobi boots, HoG and Philo Stone core, whuttt)

NineThePuma

2014-07-16, 12:27 AM

HoG was Season 2

Joran

2014-07-16, 12:50 AM

So...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LfnNNmXh28

The Moscow 5 is down to 2, I guess.

Back up to Moscow 3: Diamond's back to the starting lineup! That said, I miss Season 2 Moscow 5. The LCS format doesn't favor Gambit because it requires them to do a lot more traveling than any other team because they can't get visas to stay in Germany and have to fly in and out every week. Back when it was a bunch of tournaments, this was much less of an issue.

It's also been apparent for awhile that there have been rifts in the team; Alex Ich left, there doesn't seem to be any coherence in the team. It's a pity, I enjoyed M5 when they were bringing new and interesting champions and strategies to the meta.

mrcarter11

2014-07-16, 01:07 AM

Back up to Moscow 3: Diamond's back to the starting lineup! That said, I miss Season 2 Moscow 5. The LCS format doesn't favor Gambit because it requires them to do a lot more traveling than any other team because they can't get visas to stay in Germany and have to fly in and out every week. Back when it was a bunch of tournaments, this was much less of an issue.

It's also been apparent for awhile that there have been rifts in the team; Alex Ich left, there doesn't seem to be any coherence in the team. It's a pity, I enjoyed M5 when they were bringing new and interesting champions and strategies to the meta.

M5 was also just a team that was much stronger due to the meta being what it was at the time. On the other hand, it really feels like Riot has ****ed Gambit over several times. Past that, yes, the current LCS structure really doesn't benefit Gambit at all.

Siosilvar

2014-07-16, 01:14 AM

Eldariel

2014-07-16, 05:35 AM

Thanks Eld, great insight. I'm interested in finding out more about how you play Syndra though. Currently I'm also a Mid>Jungle>Support player as well. Ziggs was my go-to champion but he has pretty bad match ups (to me) against AD assassin mids and has received recent nerfs, so I am looking to adding Syndra to my ranked champion pool. I've played her in blind pick normals about 20+ times. She doesn't have an escape so how is she safe? Because of her range? Would very much appreciate a guide of sorts, especially a match up guide.

The reason she's so safe is because she has kill pressure on everyone at a fairly high range and great lane harass which forces enemies to die or keep distance. Combine that with a short lane, the great CC from QE and W (with both Q and W castable on move too) and the insanely fast long range stun in QE (which you can augment with additional balls from W and Q to make for a wider AOE) and you're just really hard to approach. I've killed my share of junglers that tried to gank. The fact that Q has a very low cooldown and quite high damage (especially once you hit the Transcendent bonus) makes chasing you and approaching you very lethal. When low on mana, a naked E is enough to push a diver far enough away to escape more often than not. Basically, she controls a large zone and threatens kills without having to commit very deep which makes her hard to bait safely and makes it risky to play up close. It's a simple enough matter to stun/slow/push away whoever tries to flank you and most line approach abilities fall horribly flat vs. Syndra's QE.

Further, I usually build Grail > Zhonya's (unless I'm supersafe in which case I just get Deathcap), which allows you to avoid most assassin all-ins and flash > kill people at low risk in teamfights. She does lack an escape but that's kinda par de course in mid - the lane is short enough that it's not a real problem. You're still fine more often than not, and you should be investing in wards to place in the enemy jungle anyways as the midlaner. Though I sometimes play around with RoA builds too just for the funzies. It does make you extremely hard to kill, but Syndra really likes her CDR so if I were to go that route I'd be tempted to build something else for CDR (or just run like scaling CDR Blues or something).

If talking about match-ups specifically, covering couple of the more common ones:

Yasuo: Skill match-up; your Q harass doesn't care about Wind Wall but everything else you do does. His dash places him at predictable points which enables QE, which in turn makes for safe ults. His all-ins are something to be wary of though, and he'll try to Wall your E, something you have to play around (bait the wall out or something). First level you should play a fair bit back if he goes E first. Bait him to fight in the creepwave and you can win; use the E-cooldown to land Qs and never forget to auto when it's free.

Ziggs: Basically, you have more kill pressure on him than he does on you but he's mostly safe enough that it doesn't really matter. If you can ever catch him with a stun midgame you can go all in with the QWQR sequence which should be extremely lethal but early game it's very hard to get much damage on him without trading it back and he can farm from such a distance that it's hard to push in before you can burst him down (you can look at that on 6 though he probably has a defensive summoner making it even harder). Stuns do help up setting up jungle ganks tho - Syndra's stun has such a long range that it's a feasible option vs. Ziggs.

Fizz: Like most Fizz match-ups, it's mostly about the Trickster. You want to punish his Qs with QE if he ever uses them towards you and if he gets onto you, hold your horses and wait for the Trickster while maybe QWing him - you need to save E for the stun. Remember that you can usually oneshot him if you can land ult but also remember that your ult isn't instantaneous and his Trickster negates the remaining balls so you need some leeway. Generally you have to be careful of the jungler ganks once Fizz hits 6; if he lands a fish you can be in serious trouble so try to force him away if that happens.

LeBlanc: Your QE completely trumps her QW so abuse the early edge. Later on play further back, punish her if you can catch her (once she has the damage to afford using W for lateral movement it becomes very impossible to land offensive stuff on her), you'll mostly push and try to catch her getting too aggressive. Note that if with help of QW you get an opportunity to line-up stun on both, her initial and her W target location, you can almost certainly land a stun and punish her. Of course, once she begins using her R for mobility too it becomes all but impossible to catch her unless she goes offensive.

Orianna: You outrange her base gameplay a bit, try to force her to keep the ball back and avoid it as usual. She has a shield so you want to play around that when you poke. Either focus on heavy enough poke to blow through it or wait it out but don't waste your stuff just to poke the shield. She's fairly immobile so it's easy enough to line up one-two balls for a near guaranteed stun in spite of her W. With her E though it takes a bit more to blow her up than with most midlaners. Respect the Shockwave and use your range to avoid unnecessary harass and you should be fine.

Lulu: Kinda similar to Orianna with the exception that she has the EQ combo to hit further (but that's not all that relevant until blue due to mana considerations). She's very squishy if you can burst her down before she gets her ult down but you usually can't. She mostly prefers shorter range opponents though so you mostly just abuse your QEW range and the fact that creeps don't block your stun and get lopsided trades.

TF: He basically has to towerhug vs. you. He's immobile and if you ever catch him in a stun he just dies. Just don't let him goldcard you when you're getting ganked (expect the Flash-Gold Card the second you try to QE him) and you're under absolutely no threat. You can try to Flash > QE him. If you ever catch him without the enemy jungler present you can just derp him to death.

Kassadin: Aggressively harass him but try to bait out his Q before you Q him (letting him get the Q shield is a bit of a free value), abuse your range vs. melee match-up and make life hard for him pre-6. Post-6 you can always stun him; just don't hang around too low and you should be fine. It's his roaming that you should really worry about but you can push pretty well to at least punish it.

Many others mirror these patterns. Many mages are like Ziggs (Malz, Brand, Zyra, Xerath, Lux, etc. share a similar playstyle) and others are like TF (Annie, Ryze, Anivia, etc.). Though most of the TF-likes have increased threat due to their greater burst potential, they're still fundamentally disadvantaged due to your ridiculous QE speed and range. Anivia deserves a special mention since while her Q is long range, she can't detonate it while stunned which gives Syndra a great trumpcard in her own QE. That's the only real reason why the MU is annoying with Anivia and why she generally has to sit back and farm instead of going aggressive.

Talon/Zed/Pantheon all follow a similar pattern where you want to keep just outside their gapcloser range and harass them and go for the kill with stun combo while avoiding getting all-in'd. With Zed you have to be careful of his Deathmark Dodges much like with Fizz and Trickster but ultimately I'd say these are all fairly easy match-ups (then again, I completely wrecked a Syndra with Machete/Smite J4 in a 4v5 where our midlane DCd so clearly it's possible to play those match-ups bad as Syndra too).

There are others too but they don't feel too relevant and common wisdom mostly applies.

Farix

2014-07-16, 07:30 AM

Patch 4.12 notes (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/19016) R.I.P Lucian?

Mild Ahri buffs? Yes please.

Anarion

2014-07-16, 08:44 AM

Olinser

2014-07-16, 09:14 AM

This is a pretty horrible opinion to have, man. Walking away from a bad situation(not a tough situation, a bad one), *ESPECIALLY* one you know you can't make better, is way better than forcing yourself and 3-8 other people(the rest of your team and the opposing team) to endure it. While this is true in basically all life situations, its even moreso true in League game lobbies, where nobody but the person dodging endures a penalty, and the dodger doesn't even endure a penalty large enough to be worth trying to endure a game with a negative team foundation.

I totally disagree with Artanis' "I called it" opinions, but he's better off dodging every game he has a disagreement in, then coming to us to sort out weither he was right or wrong in his opinion, rather than doing so mid-game rage-style with 8 other people brought along to suffer as an audience.

I completely agree. In the past I have been extremely hesitant to dodge anything other than blatant trolls, and regretted it every single time.

A dodge means that you lose a couple LP, everybody else involved spends a couple minutes at the champion draft again, and you spend 5 minutes watching the timer tick down. A non-dodge means that for an absolute minimum of 20 minutes you and 1-3 other people on your team (depending on the concentration of douchebaggery) are locked into a terrible game. I say 1-3 because presumably the 5 on the opposing team are having a grand ole time with the free win.

Particular winner that I regret not dodging earlier this week:

Guy calls mid, locks in Fiddlesticks before seeing his opponent. Then the guy that called ADC locks in Quinn and announces that he's going top... AFTER we already had a Garen locked in. Needless to say, we forced him to stay ADC, but that was the point that I talked myself out of dodging. Lost in 31 minutes, during which the Fiddle forced Garen to go mid against a Lissandra, and both of them fed horribly. (Quinn and I actually did decently in the bot lane, but a fed Lissandra simply explodes an ADC regardless of feed level).

This game was really the last straw. I can accept that people sometimes play less-used or unusual champions. But if you're playing them in a ranked game, you'd BETTER be good enough on them to back up the pick, and not suddenly decide you have to go to a different lane and leave somebody else in a badly losing matchup (Garen ended the game not even breaking 100 CS).

Things that I now have resolved to dodge 100% of the time:

1) Anybody that locks in a champion and declares that they are going to X lane, when somebody else has already locked in a champion for that lane.

2) Anybody that locks in a non-standard champion I will now immediately lolking, and if they have below a 40% win rate on that champion, I dodge. Hell, anybody that locks in a champion that they have below a 40% win rate on, period, although I don't look up everybody on my team to check standard picks. You want to play Urgot ADC? Fine, you better have the win rate to back it up. If you've played 20 games and won 5 of them, dodge it is.

Things I have resolved to thoroughly analyze and consider dodging:

1) Anybody that says nothing the entire champion draft and instalocks a champion in a role somebody else already called. Yes, pick order > call order, but seriously, type in THREE LETTERS to declare your lane, especially if somebody else has already said they have a preference for it, so we can have a couple minutes to figure out where everybody is going. You saying nothing and instalocking in something somebody else was expecting to get and giving somebody less than a minute to figure out where else is open and what he is good at is a **** move and hurts team coordination.

Not to mention, it has been my poor experience that anybody that refuses to communicate prior to a game will refuse to communicate IN the game, and ignore pings or any attempt to group.

2) Anybody that locks in Teemo and doesn't have a 55%+ win rate at minimum, ESPECIALLY if they picked them before seeing their lane opponent.

3) Anybody that opens with the statement 'X or feed', regardless of whether they got X or not.

Hullabaloo

2014-07-16, 09:28 AM

qtpie just mentioned that he sees Lucian going solo lane. Thoughts? I just bought him a few days ago, and have not even had a chance to play him yet, but was hoping to mix him into my adc attempts.

riccaru

2014-07-16, 09:56 AM

I completely agree. In the past I have been extremely hesitant to dodge anything other than blatant trolls, and regretted it every single time.

A dodge means that you lose a couple LP, everybody else involved spends a couple minutes at the champion draft again, and you spend 5 minutes watching the timer tick down. A non-dodge means that for an absolute minimum of 20 minutes you and 1-3 other people on your team (depending on the concentration of douchebaggery) are locked into a terrible game. I say 1-3 because presumably the 5 on the opposing team are having a grand ole time with the free win.

Particular winner that I regret not dodging earlier this week:

Guy calls mid, locks in Fiddlesticks before seeing his opponent. Then the guy that called ADC locks in Quinn and announces that he's going top... AFTER we already had a Garen locked in. Needless to say, we forced him to stay ADC, but that was the point that I talked myself out of dodging. Lost in 31 minutes, during which the Fiddle forced Garen to go mid against a Lissandra, and both of them fed horribly. (Quinn and I actually did decently in the bot lane, but a fed Lissandra simply explodes an ADC regardless of feed level).

This game was really the last straw. I can accept that people sometimes play less-used or unusual champions. But if you're playing them in a ranked game, you'd BETTER be good enough on them to back up the pick, and not suddenly decide you have to go to a different lane and leave somebody else in a badly losing matchup (Garen ended the game not even breaking 100 CS).

Things that I now have resolved to dodge 100% of the time:

1) Anybody that locks in a champion and declares that they are going to X lane, when somebody else has already locked in a champion for that lane.

2) Anybody that locks in a non-standard champion I will now immediately lolking, and if they have below a 40% win rate on that champion, I dodge. Hell, anybody that locks in a champion that they have below a 40% win rate on, period, although I don't look up everybody on my team to check standard picks. You want to play Urgot ADC? Fine, you better have the win rate to back it up. If you've played 20 games and won 5 of them, dodge it is.

Things I have resolved to thoroughly analyze and consider dodging:

1) Anybody that says nothing the entire champion draft and instalocks a champion in a role somebody else already called. Yes, pick order > call order, bu@t seriously, type in THREE LETTERS to declare your lane, especially if somebody else has already said they have a preference for it, so we can have a couple minutes to figure out where everybody is going. You saying nothing and instalocking in something somebody else was expecting to get and giving somebody less than a minute to figure out where else is open and what he is good at is a **** move and hurts team coordination.

Not to mention, it has been my poor experience that anybody that refuses to communicate prior to a game will refuse to communicate IN the game, and ignore pings or any attempt to group.

2) Anybody that locks in Teemo and doesn't have a 55%+ win rate at minimum, ESPECIALLY if they picked them before seeing their lane opponent.

3) Anybody that opens with the statement 'X or feed', regardless of whether they got X or not.

On #1, yesterday I was in a ranked qeue and that happened to someone on the same pick. They said mid, locked in ryze, then the person picking at the same time (but was one higher on the list) locks talon and claims pick order after saying absolutely nothing the whole time in champion select.

Eldariel

2014-07-16, 11:08 AM

qtpie just mentioned that he sees Lucian going solo lane. Thoughts? I just bought him a few days ago, and have not even had a chance to play him yet, but was hoping to mix him into my adc attempts.

Vayne/Corki, other similar champs, have done it in the past, and it's been happening already. It's not rare to have Bruiser vs. AD sololanes competitively in laneswap situations. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised; short-range champs (Quinn, Jayce, Teemo, Kayle, etc.) have traditionally done poorly in 2v2 and as a consequence, ended up in 1v1s even if they could benefit of a babysitter. Those comps have some problems with ganks but Lucian is at least mobile if not hardy.

Artanis

2014-07-16, 01:01 PM

NineThePuma

2014-07-16, 01:11 PM

MOST ezreal players stopped trying to shoot Yasuo with ult after the first three days.

Artanis

2014-07-16, 01:14 PM

MOST ezreal players stopped trying to shoot Yasuo with ult after the first three days.
I assume that's a "yes" then? :smalltongue:

Seriously, I don't think I've ever actually played against Yasuo :smallredface:

NineThePuma

2014-07-16, 01:20 PM

Yasuo blocks it and is mobile enough to easily dodge the highly telegraphed Ez ult if Wall is on CD.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-07-16, 01:25 PM

I just noticed that I need to win my next 51 games to reach a 50% win rate on normals Joy

thracian

2014-07-16, 01:58 PM

Godskook

2014-07-16, 02:06 PM

thracian

2014-07-16, 02:07 PM

Why didn't you? :P

Busy diving top 4 times.

Anarion

2014-07-16, 03:01 PM

I always get slightly weirded out playing against pre-30s. I always try to bait things, or predict where their jungler will be etc., but they never, ever react the way I expect. I mean, they make more than enough mistakes to make up for it, of course, but it's always a case of "I warded your Red 3 minutes ago, why did NOBODY try to get it in that time?"

1. Being pre-30 one might not even know the jungle timers or be especially conscious of icons reappearing on the minimap. They simply might be unaware it's up.

2. Lack of mindfulness. Even if a player knows the timer, he might not remember to check for the timer. His mindset might be "this lane needs help...uh, now I'm hurt, I better back...gotta go help bot now..." and three minutes have passed without him thinking about his buff.

3. Messed up priorities. Even if the players know the timer and are conscious that the buff is up, you might be busy taking their towers and they keep coming to teamfight (and probably losing) while ignoring buffs and any other money available to them on the map.

Olinser

2014-07-16, 03:15 PM

Some random, mostly-unrelated replies.

Re Ahri buff:

I notice that the buff to her Q is almost entirely in the mana cost reduction. The AP ratio buff comes to a whopping 20 pre-mitigation damage at 400 AP, and even then it's only if you get two hits. I know almost nothing about Ahri, so is it safe to assume that costing 15 less mana actually is a fairly big deal for her?

Re queue dodging:

I just want to emphasize that I'm still pre-30, so lolking win rates don't really apply in my games. Hell, at most one game in ten has fewer than five champs that are on that week's free rotation, and I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a 6300 IP champ who wasn't on free rotation. 95% of why I dodged was because of the guy's attitude and 5% was because I was going to wind up on jungle, a role at which I am worse than Nunu bot (though I can AND WILL play mid, top, or support if needed). I actually looked up the Hydra-Tristana while waiting for my dodge timer to run out, said "holy hell, this guy should main Trundle instead of Trist," then came here :smalltongue:

Re sofawall's skills:

So yesterday, this game happened (http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1455008118/210717481). 5 pre-30's vs. 4 pre-30's plus sofawall. I think three times, me and sofawall had an exchange along the lines of,
sofawall: "Why the hell would he do that?"
me: "...because pre-30's are stupid."

Question regarding Yasuo's Wind Wall:

Me and Firedaemon33 duo-queued last night, and Yasuo and Braum blocking Ezreal's ult with their wall/shield came up in conversation. I know Braum's shield does so, but I've never seen Wind Wall do so with my own eyes. I'm 99% sure it does (hell, even the skill video shows it stopping Bullet Time), but can't quite be 100% sure.

Lolking only displays win rates for champions played in Ranked games (the tab is titled 'ranked stats'). While it does mash together ALL ranked games in that panel (solo que, team 3v3 and team 5v5), it is still a good benchmark to see where somebody is on a champion. Champions that display just a couple games played, win or loss doesn't mean anything (unless every single one was a loss), but if they've played 20 games on a champion and won 5, they aren't good at that champion, and they certainly shouldn't be trying to play that champion outside a normal role in a ranked game.

In normal games I have a much higher tolerance for people playing outside the meta - normals are the best place to try out new things, IMO. Ranked games like I said, if you want to play outside the meta you BETTER have the skills to back it up.

Regarding Ahri, yes, her Q mana reduction is a pretty big deal, though it really only has a big impact in early game.

Ionbound

2014-07-16, 03:24 PM

Speaking of things that are outside of the Meta, are there any champs that could survive a bot-lane 2v1?

Olinser

2014-07-16, 03:31 PM

Speaking of things that are outside of the Meta, are there any champs that could survive a bot-lane 2v1?

There are many, though it will depend a little upon what support there is.

In any 2v1 situation, you basically need to resign yourself to farming under the turret for a fairly extended period of time. So at that point the question is, what champions can you play that can farm under the turret and not get killed from that position?

TFT

2014-07-16, 03:35 PM

Lolking only displays win rates for champions played in Ranked games (the tab is titled 'ranked stats'). While it does mash together ALL ranked games in that panel (solo que, team 3v3 and team 5v5), it is still a good benchmark to see where somebody is on a champion. Champions that display just a couple games played, win or loss doesn't mean anything (unless every single one was a loss), but if they've played 20 games on a champion and won 5, they aren't good at that champion, and they certainly shouldn't be trying to play that champion outside a normal role in a ranked game.

Honestly, my favorite resource is this (http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/Olinser). It tells you total rank, kda across the season both overall and on specific champions, number of games on the champion, and even attempts to compare your stats to the average for that champion both in terms of performance and giving a skillscore that combines a bunch of factors to compare those stats to other players. It's probably the most in depth stats I've seen, in a pretty nice layout.

Ionbound

2014-07-16, 03:42 PM

There are many, though it will depend a little upon what support there is.

In any 2v1 situation, you basically need to resign yourself to farming under the turret for a fairly extended period of time. So at that point the question is, what champions can you play that can farm under the turret and not get killed from that position?

Hmm...The reason why I ask is because I had the crazy idea of a triple solo lane and two junglers harassing the enemy jungle as much as possible. The theory is that, since either side of the midlane has both buffs, you could theoretically run two junglers and since, in this scenario, the enemy would only have one, one would have unmitigated access to the enemy jungle, and the other would be making it very hard for the enemy to get anything done. The downside is that bot would be a 2v1, and I was wondering what the optimal team setup for this would be, and how well it would work.

lord_khaine

2014-07-16, 04:00 PM

Well.. i have tried 2 junglers a few times myself, sometimes it work, and other times it failed horribly.

But i could imagine that champions like Chogath, Galio or perhaps Kayle, who all have nice wave clear, would be decent candidates?

Recaiden

2014-07-16, 04:13 PM

Re Ahri buff:

I notice that the buff to her Q is almost entirely in the mana cost reduction. The AP ratio buff comes to a whopping 20 pre-mitigation damage at 400 AP, and even then it's only if you get two hits. I know almost nothing about Ahri, so is it safe to assume that costing 15 less mana actually is a fairly big deal for her?

It is a fairly significant change. Lets her have more poke and more healing in lane, and be less empty after fights.

Olinser

2014-07-16, 04:16 PM

Honestly, my favorite resource is this (http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/Olinser). It tells you total rank, kda across the season both overall and on specific champions, number of games on the champion, and even attempts to compare your stats to the average for that champion both in terms of performance and giving a skillscore that combines a bunch of factors to compare those stats to other players. It's probably the most in depth stats I've seen, in a pretty nice layout.

I have never been a fan of that site. You get exactly the same information off of lolking with regards to champion KDA and CS, while that site very obviously does NOT display your win/loss with the champion, while the percentages they do display honestly don't have much bearing on who is actually a good player on a champion, mainly because they include no metric of your win% on said champion in their calculation. I notice that your page has you as performing 'below average' on nearly every single champion (funnily enough, with the sole exception of Caitlyn, who you have a less than 50% win rate with, and Lee Sin, that you've only played 1 game on), despite you having a positive win rate overall and being Diamond.

Heck, you have a badge for being the #362nd best Zyra player in the world! And then below that it says you perform 7.8% below average on Zyra. Obviously that makes no sense.

Meanwhile on Lolking you can look and see that you're Diamond III, and have a 57.7% win rate with Zyra - which provides you an actual useful % to go by.

Vhaidara

2014-07-16, 04:18 PM

So, league hasn't been working on my main laptop for a while (I've played 2 games since the change to AD items). But I saw Quill Coat and it made me wonder.
Could this bring a jungler like Sejuani into the meta? Here's my primary reasoning (I have little grasp of how the meta works. Ever)

Her passive reduces slows and gives her armor, helping her chase and free stats are nice
Arctic Assault is a mid-length cooldown dash that does % of max health damage and inflicts a short dislocate
Sejuani's Flail of the Northern Winds scales with bonus health. Quill Coat scales with bonus health by giving you bonus health. I see synergy here.
Permafrost has a beautiful slow if maxed
Glacial Prison gives you a mid-long range AoE stun that still slows if you miss. CD isn't hateful.

So, you build her something like
Machete->Boots->Quill Coat+ Giant's Belt ->Treads + Spectres-> Randuin's/Sunfire->Spirit Visage/Banshee's->Warmogs->Randuin's/Sunfire/Banshee's/Visage (whichever you need more and didn't already build)

Because of the HP scaling on Flail, you are constantly doing damage (around 100dps), and you come out to an excess of 4k health with nearly 200 armor and mr. You keep throwing down slows in the fight, as well as arctic assault. It works well with an AD heavy team, since the enemy is less inclined to build MR to reduce the damage they take while trying to kill you, and especially well with Yasuo (Q is a displacement, allowing him to ult).

Thoughts?

Math_Mage

2014-07-16, 04:33 PM

Hmm...The reason why I ask is because I had the crazy idea of a triple solo lane and two junglers harassing the enemy jungle as much as possible. The theory is that, since either side of the midlane has both buffs, you could theoretically run two junglers and since, in this scenario, the enemy would only have one, one would have unmitigated access to the enemy jungle, and the other would be making it very hard for the enemy to get anything done. The downside is that bot would be a 2v1, and I was wondering what the optimal team setup for this would be, and how well it would work.
just take your top laner into the jungle and run 0v2 lanes like all the kool kidz