[3.5] Weird Template and Base Creature Combos

[Thurbane]

Hey there,

Are there any creature/template combos that jump as as being odd, even though they are legal?

One I considered for my own game was a Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o'-wisp. An invisible spongy orb...with a bite & claws. :smallamused:

And the good old "Dragons can breed with anything" template that is Half-Dragon.

Cheers - T

[torrasque666]

Pretty much anything on a warforged, at least from a fluff perspective. How does something that is made, not born, get inherited templates?

[Pan151]

Pretty much anything on a warforged, at least from a fluff perspective. How does something that is made, not born, get inherited templates?

A wizard did it.

Which is true, considering that, for example, there is an actual spell that permanently gives the target the Half-Fiend template (can't recall the actual sourcebook, though)

[Doorhandle]

Pretty much anything on a warforged, at least from a fluff perspective. How does something that is made, not born, get inherited templates?

They were just built that way.

[Inevitability]

Pretty much anything on a Gelatinous Cube. Think about it.

[Jergmo]

Multiheaded Hill Giant.

How is the middle head to brush its teeth, let alone deal with all the snoring?

[Segev]

Multiheaded Hill Giant.

How is the middle head to brush its teeth, let alone deal with all the snoring?

You make the egregious assumption that hill giants brush their teeth.

[Vaz]

It evokes memories of the mummy for me, but the template that allows an undead to become host to a vermin swarm from, i want to say Dungeonscape.

[dysprosium]

A wizard did it.

Which is true, considering that, for example, there is an actual spell that permanently gives the target the Half-Fiend template (can't recall the actual sourcebook, though)

Nar Fiendbond from Lost Empires of Faerun. Clr 7, Sor/Wiz 7

[Vaz]

Ironically, not on the Fiendbinder's list IIRC.

[Zanthy1]

I feel like, theoretically, you could do a half-celestial/half-fiend. Would be pretty cool if flavored right.

[Vaz]

Dvati? Although blth benefit from the abilities, have eaxh one only use particular tactics.

Or Ettins. Ettins with that would be brilliant.

[Ellowryn]

I feel like, theoretically, you could do a half-celestial/half-fiend. Would be pretty cool if flavored right.

There was a graphic novel about this, had more power than god, stuck in a former priest from texas.

On a more serious note, sounds more like a base creature when you put it together than two templates, but i dont know how you would stat it out.

[PraxisVetli]

It evokes memories of the mummy for me, but the template that allows an undead to become host to a vermin swarm from, i want to say Dungeonscape.

Swarmshifter, and its from Libris Mortis.
Amazing template.
I slapped it on some Gravetouched Ghoul Shadow Paragon Chokers. Evolved Undead a few times, let 'er rip!

[Zanthy1]

There was a graphic novel about this, had more power than god, stuck in a former priest from texas.

On a more serious note, sounds more like a base creature when you put it together than two templates, but i dont know how you would stat it out.

I feel like you would just roll stats normally and apply the 2 templates (which does incur a +8 LA) and take the special abilities from each. If there are ones that are the same, take the better of the two

[Bronk]

Are there any creature/template combos that jump as as being odd, even though they are legal?

For me, it's any combination of half-creature templates that adds up to more than one.

[torrasque666]

For me, it's any combination of half-creature templates that adds up to more than one.

Nah, family gatherings are just awkward then.

[supersonic29]

I made a character (1st level paladin if you want to know) who was a half-ogre half-celestial mummy. Imagining the sequence of events that led to that thing's existence amused me.

[Segev]

Half-Dragon Oozes of any type tend to be a bit weird. Particularly since they have wings and fly speeds despite being liquid.

Half-Dragon Beholder, though, for some reason seems particularly wonky to me on a number of levels.

[Vhaidara]

Half Dragon Gelatinous Cube with Illithid heritage feats

[Ellowryn]

Half Dragon Gelatinous Cube with Illithid heritage feats

Im going to go with "a wizard did it" for the sake of my sanity. A bored, crazed, orc-related wizard most likely.

[Vhaidara]

Actually, I'm going to bring up one that we determined retroactively in one of he campaigns I'm in.

Premise: Homebrew whale-man race, got powerful build instead of large (I helped design it, not knowing about anthro whale). Genetically engineered by the aboleth as super soldiers.

We later determined that the race breakdown was
1/4 human (baseline)
1/4 whale (size and strength)
1/4 dragon (makes universal breeding a thing)
1/4 aboleth (the founding race)

Now just imagine if we had started from where we ended.

[Jergmo]

I believe if you had a half-fiend/half-celestial, the base creature would be the same as the mother, then the template of the opposite outsider would be applied.

Unless we're talking about a mortal with both bloodlines?

[Vaz]

Swarmshifter, and its from Libris Mortis.
Amazing template.
I slapped it on some Gravetouched Ghoul Shadow Paragon Chokers. Evolved Undead a few times, let 'er rip!

Nope - Hivenest monster I was thinking of.

[PraxisVetli]

Nope - Hivenest monster I was thinking of.

That one's definitely cool too.
Hmm.
I was unaware it could be applied to plants and constructs, as well undead.
That's good to know.

[Judge_Worm]

Half-Dragon Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonborn with Dragon lineage and Improved draconic heritage feats
I think regular true dragons can't be this much dragon.

Wereshark Awakened Dire Bear
Admit it, nothing is more awesome or scary at the same time.

Gelatinous Swarm Lich
Undead flying insect blobs.

Half-Celestial Tiefling
You can do it, Nicky!

Warforged Anything
I mean it's a sapient construct, how can it breed with anything?!?

[Vorandril]

Base race: Constrictor snake

Applied templates: Anthropomorphic Animal (Savage Species), Insectoid Creature(Savage Species), Multiheaded(Savage Species), half Farspawn (Lords of Madness).

Ahem...

"Dat level adjustment."

[Jeff the Green]

Shadow lantern archon.
Half gold dragon gold dragon.
Half dragon half giant half celestial half fiend half minotaur half fey mongrelfolk.

[Doorhandle]

Shadow lantern archon.
Half gold dragon gold dragon.
Half dragon half giant half celestial half fiend half minotaur half fey mongrelfolk.

My father was a golden dragon, and my mother was an EVEN MORE golden dragon! :smallbiggrin:


Half-Dragon Oozes of any type tend to be a bit weird. Particularly since they have wings and fly speeds despite being liquid.

Half-Dragon Beholder, though, for some reason seems particularly wonky to me on a number of levels.

I dunno, seems pretty awesome to me.





http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/172/d/5/half_dragon_beholder_by_spipes-d3jltrc.jpg

[Thurbane]

Nope - Hivenest monster I was thinking of.
I've always been curious to see how BOTH those templates (Swarmshifter, Hivenest) would look on one monster.

It's an undead full of insects that turns into insects. :smallbiggrin:

[jiriku]

Hivenest swarmshifter mummified creature verminlord. It's an undead insect-man full of undead insects who turns into a swarm of undead insects.

Yo dawg, we herd u liek vermin....

[Jergmo]

I've always been curious to see how BOTH those templates (Swarmshifter, Hivenest) would look on one monster.

It's an undead full of insects that turns into insects. :smallbiggrin:

I took an Aranea, and gave it both Swarmshifter and Hivenest, as well as Corpse Creature, then gave it 1 level in Sorcerer for Web (upgrade!) as a low-ish boss monster.

What do you do when you fight an undead that turns into a spider that's filled with spiders that turns into spiders after trapping you in magical webbing? You scream, and you never stop.

[Segev]

Ooh, how about a half-dragon Shimmerling Swarm?

(Or a swarm with half-anything, really.)

[Thurbane]

I took an Aranea, and gave it both Swarmshifter and Hivenest, as well as Corpse Creature, then gave it 1 level in Sorcerer for Web (upgrade!) as a low-ish boss monster.

What do you do when you fight an undead that turns into a spider that's filled with spiders that turns into spiders after trapping you in magical webbing? You scream, and you never stop.
This is awesome...I may well steal it for my own games.

[Svata]

Half-Minotaur Minotaur.

[Vhaidara]

Half-Minotaur Minotaur.

Half-Ogre Half-Ogre.

[Jergmo]

This is awesome...I may well steal it for my own games.

That'd be an honor.

[Bronk]

Ooh, how about a half-dragon Shimmerling Swarm?

(Or a swarm with half-anything, really.)

Would the whole swarm have one breath weapon, or would each of the thousands of wee shimmerlings have their own?

[manyslayer]

I feel like, theoretically, you could do a half-celestial/half-fiend. Would be pretty cool if flavored right.

That's basically the Concordant Killer from Monster Manual 4.



I looked at a half-red dragon white dragon wyrmling for a campaign once. Campaign never got off the ground so I never got to make him up.

[Vaz]

That one's definitely cool too.
Hmm.
I was unaware it could be applied to plants and constructs, as well undead.
That's good to know.

I remember wanting to use it after I discovered the Voldni (1RH LA+2 plants), but the template was LA-. I was gutted.

And that aranea sounds amazing.

[PraxisVetli]

Would the whole swarm have one breath weapon, or would each of the thousands of wee shimmerlings have their own?
One massive conglomerate breath.

Half-Minotaur Minotaur.
Megataur?
Too bad can't be a Half-Minotaur Dungeonbred Minotaur. Would drop you 4 STR, but then Half regrants you 12, so its a free +8 on a creature that would otherwise only get +4. And the CON would stack well. And the Natural Weapon die size would increase too.

What do you do when you fight an undead that turns into a spider that's filled with spiders that turns into spiders after trapping you in magical webbing? You scream, and you never stop.
Permission to sig this magnificence sir?

[Thurbane]

Would the whole swarm have one breath weapon, or would each of the thousands of wee shimmerlings have their own?
In the Shackled City adventure, a new type of monster is introduced that is a swarm of half-back dragon kuo toa spawn...can't remember if it gets a breath weapon or not.

[Jergmo]

Be my guest. I don't think I've ever been sigged before. :smalltongue:

Swarms do count as a single creature, so I'd say they should get a single breath weapon. Just imagine a thousand teeny little guys huffing and puffing with all they've got so they can burn you to a crisp. It's heartwarming.

[Vhaidara]

You know, I think that could earn a spot in my extended sig. The problem is my friends (and any potential players) might see it, which would ruin the surprise if I use it on them...

[PraxisVetli]

Be my guest. I don't think I've ever been sigged before. :smalltongue:

Swarms do count as a single creature, so I'd say they should get a single breath weapon. Just imagine a thousand teeny little guys huffing and puffing with all they've got so they can burn you to a crisp. It's heartwarming.
Excellent! Thank you.

You know, I think that could earn a spot in my extended sig. The problem is my friends (and any potential players) might see it, which would ruin the surprise if I use it on them...

Well, let's be honest.
Will that really save them?

[Vhaidara]

Sadly, it really might. They're better at this than I am.

[Vorandril]

Sadly, it really might. They're better at this than I am.

Oh no no, that simply won't do. It's not a matter of who's "better". It's a matter of who's MEANER. >=)

Forewarned is forearmed. So by all means play your hand and make them see the idea. Set up the situation so they believe that's exactly what they're up against. They will be so focused and determined to metagame... Then you don't just punish them for it. You ERADICATE THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS AS EVERYTHING THEY LOVE BURNS IN A HOLOCAUST OF ECSTASY AND FREEDOM!

And by that I mean if they seem to be metagaming then pull the rug out from under them with something that hard counters their plans. Like high dex monsters when the mage prepped Reflex for 1/2 spells.

Because the DM is responsible for everyone at the table having fun. But the players are responsible for not being a bunch of turd-brained oafs.

Then later come back and throw your intended monster after they learned to play nicely.

[thethird]

I tend to use more npc encounters than monsters, because most of the time the stories I want to tell are not focused on monsters. Still I've used the following template/creature combos that might be interesting.

Swarmshifter / Hivenest / Bone Carcass Crab (The vermin were crabs)
Soulfused / Quorcraft / Warforged A really old warforged that obtained sentience on its own, and since then has tried to derail the creation of new, "untrue" warforged (incidentally I also slap the soulfused template in cadaver golems, even if it isn't legal)

I have also had a lot of fun with the symbiotic creature template (from savage species) but since it is 3.0 I've updatted it, among other things allowing new creatures to be symbioted :P

Symbiotic Ruin Chanter + Zeitgeist guarding a really old city
Myconid + Yellow Musk (Seriously anything yellow musk is cool, but this is cooler, and legal, note that the myconid spores are hd based, so it gets all of them even with a tiny one)

et al.

My currently winning monster, is one I played for a xorvintaal campaign, in fact he has turned into a recurring npc.

He was a hoarder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307b) Xorvintaal Emerald Dragon. His treasure was mostly in gold pieces, some needed magic items, and several light sources. His lair was a riverine tub with some dragonshards for decoration, which had two interconnecting portals at the bottom and the top (so it was an endless fall). The dragonshards, facing inwards had had anchor plane, and intensify manifest zone manifested to get the traits of the positive and the negative planes (i.e. any undead creature that lingered had incredibly high hd, any living creature that expend time there would soon explode)

The fun part comes from him acting more or less as a lamp in a casino, in which the house would throw the benefits into his hoard. The big quantity of gold pieces, and having object reading at will meant that he eventually would find a gold coin that came from a dragon.

His feats included the ghost ride line of ghostwalk and planar touchstone catalogues of enlightment (pleasure) to be immune to cha damage. Sometimes when someone won too much in the casino the dragon would possess several coins and then wait till the winner was sleeping (i.e. willing) and use malevolence (grand malevolence) in it, possessing it. He would then start incepting the idea of hunting a dragon (whatever dragon in his actual hit list) into the casino winner.

There were mainly two outcomes.

The casino winner was able to defeat the dragon, my char then would use him to retrieve the loot and have a loosing strike at certain casino.
The casino winner would loose against the dragon, the dragon would add the gold of the casino dragon to his hoard, then he would eventually sleep, and probably be possessed.

[NickChaisson]

My favorite is a half-dragon cow. Just because its so silly. Any its only considered a CR 4. It has a str of 30 and can use its breath weapon every 1d4 rounds.

[Vhaidara]

My favorite is a half-dragon cow. Just because its so silly. Any its only considered a CR 4. It has a str of 30 and can use its breath weapon every 1d4 rounds.

Um, no? Half dragon breath weapon is 1/day.

Oh, and I've actually had a half dragon cow in one of my games.

[Vorandril]

Um, no? Half dragon breath weapon is 1/day.

Oh, and I've actually had a half dragon cow in one of my games.

Now make it an anthromorphic cow. Most convoluted minotaur.

[Urpriest]

Hivenest swarmshifter mummified creature verminlord. It's an undead insect-man full of undead insects who turns into a swarm of undead insects.

Yo dawg, we herd u liek vermin....

Swap mummified for Greater Mummy from Deities and Demigods, for the Symbiosis ability, netting you yet another vermin.

[Vhaidara]

Actually, it was our druid. We were stuck under semi-house arrest by a paladin, so he started going around trolling farmers. He was a cow, then the farmer went to try and milk him and he grew wings and flew away.

We've found out he couldn't technically do that...

[Inevitability]

Multi-headed beholder. It'll probably turn out to look like a combination of this:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCvZvZU3E5ooEvSfov4KHlNFe9q3jr5 rO_-H3Bz5kh1Eg6uOSYaxblPw

and this:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/4/42/110Weezing.png/250px-110Weezing.png

[Vhaidara]

Multi-headed beholder. It'll probably turn out to look like a combination of this:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCvZvZU3E5ooEvSfov4KHlNFe9q3jr5 rO_-H3Bz5kh1Eg6uOSYaxblPw

and this:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/4/42/110Weezing.png/250px-110Weezing.png

Make it Lernean mutliheaded, so whenever you kill one, you get more.

Wait, Lernean Multiheaded Tauric Mind Flayer/Aboleth, with symbiotes of one of the smaller beholderkin.

[Judge_Worm]

Actually, it was our druid. We were stuck under semi-house arrest by a paladin, so he started going around trolling farmers. He was a cow, then the farmer went to try and milk him...

I almost failed my fort save there, you'd think a farmer might notice its a male before trying to milk it. Unless it was some thorough-bred cow that they wanted to use on another cow, like they do horses.

[Vhaidara]

Changeling Druid, went with a female cow. Like I said, he was trolling farmers. He went around town making Gather Information checks as a gorilla. He had levels in Master of Many Forms, so he could speak normally in wild shape.

[supersonic29]

Hm. I feel like you could make something silly with the right base creature to apply the Chimeric template from MM2 to. Like a chimeric hydra.

[Jergmo]

Multi-headed beholder. It'll probably turn out to look like a combination of this:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCvZvZU3E5ooEvSfov4KHlNFe9q3jr5 rO_-H3Bz5kh1Eg6uOSYaxblPw

and this:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/4/42/110Weezing.png/250px-110Weezing.png

I don't know why I didn't make reference to this. I actually posted something about a Multiheaded Beholder on the forums, years ago. I called it the "Disco Ball of Destruction", and given the allowance of its flight maneuverability... it spent its turns just rotating.

[GrahamA]

My father was a golden dragon, and my mother was an EVEN MORE golden dragon! :smallbiggrin:



I dunno, seems pretty awesome to me.





http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/172/d/5/half_dragon_beholder_by_spipes-d3jltrc.jpg




Wow, really great art work, thx for adding that.

[Thurbane]

Um, no? Half dragon breath weapon is 1/day.
There's a feat, can't remember the name off the top of my head, that allows a half-dragon to use it's breath weapon every 1d4 rounds. Or maybe it's three times a day.

Half-dragon paragon class lets you use it 3 times/day.

[NickChaisson]

Its every 1d4 rounds.

[kampfaxt]

I have always liked the idea of having Hooded Pupil Half-Troll Horrid Dire Bats, Half-Vampire &/or Katane Yuan-Ti Purebloods, and Amphibious Poisonous Drow Vampires all working together under the service of a Fleshvigor Swarm-Shifter Vampiric Half-Fang Dragon Rattlyr Dragon.

[Ruethgar]

A Divine Minion(Geb) Were-pig Human... Manbearpig!

[unseenmage]

Half-Robot from a Dragon Mag on a bison. Such a weird, dumb monster.

Warbeast on sentient, free willed vermin is weird too.

Construct templates on Intelligent Magic Items is weird.

Sacred Guardian (Bestiary of Krynn Revised) on a Flying weapon enhancement enchanted weapon (let's it turn into a flying animated object) was a real head scratcher too.

Greater Humanoid Essenced Constructs in general get weird.
Lycanthropy, Vampirism, etc. There are loads of normally not applicable templates that can be crammed onto a Golem when the Construct type gets filed off.

Half-Golem Iron Golem

[Bronk]

Half-Robot from a Dragon Mag on a bison. Such a weird, dumb monster.


Interesting! Which issue was that from?

[unseenmage]

Interesting! Which issue was that from?

Apologies, I misremembered the name. And the magazine.

Half-Machine (Dungeon #91 pg106)

[Svata]

Hey maybe don't necromance

[Particle_Man]

Half-Dragon Oozes of any type tend to be a bit weird. Particularly since they have wings and fly speeds despite being liquid.


A pair of half-blue dragon black puddings would be alarmingly effective except they no longer split from lightning damage. Ah well. But yeah, for one stop shopping on the weird scale I am gonna go with half-dragon ooze.

I did once apply the pseudonatural template (epic version) to a cat, a dog, a rooster and a horse to be the BBEGs of a campaign.

I also suggested a half-gold dragon treant for someone that wanted a treant that was able to safely experiment with alchemical stuff without fearing the fiery explosions.

There is the less weird standy of the troll getting various templates in order to become immune to fire and acid, but that is less weird and more, well, cheese.

And of course, OOTS in Snips, Snails and Dragon Tails features a famous multiply-templated snail as that books's (not so)BBEG.

Not quite a template, but I once suggested a pig that got awakened, became evil, took the assassin prestige class and then the dragon disciple prestige class (for the wings) just so that pigs might fly.

I wanted to play a celestial pixie once but my DM vetoed it. Ghost pixie too.

A friend of mine had a pc that reincarnated into a half-silver dragon centaur. My God, what a fly speed!

[Bronk]

Apologies, I misremembered the name. And the magazine.

Half-Machine (Dungeon #91 pg106)

Thanks! That would be a super weird bison! (I wish the template had an LA...)