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mr_odd
2014-07-10, 12:21 PM
Hi, I run a 3.5 campaign with about 10-20 players (drop in, drop out sessions). The focal point is my main city, which I am trying to make it feel really alive. Over the summer break, I've been coming up with cool NPCs for the characters to meet. Can I give my players "too many NPCs?" I understand that players seeking out people for various needs is different, but what I am asking about is having NPCs seek the players and join them on quests/be recurring characters.

FidgetySquirrel
2014-07-10, 12:24 PM
You can have too many major NPCs, but it depends on player tolerance. As long as you can keep track of everything, and your players don't suffer from NPC Fatigue, you're fine.

tensai_oni
2014-07-10, 12:36 PM
Yes. Easily.

I learnt this the hard way, trust me.

In general, each "adventure" shouldn't have more major NPCs than there are player characters. This is not a hard and fast rule, but it's a good guideline. Of course random minor mooks to kill and other schmucks with little characterisation don't count, I mean NPCs that are actual characters and not just window dressing/obstacles to overcome/arrows towards the next plot point.

As for a total number of recurring NPCs, it's harder to accurately judge when it's too much. Rather, make sure your characters don't overshadow the party. It's the player characters' story after all. If the story suddenly becomes all about the NPCs and the players are there playing second fiddle or just for no reason at all... then you've overdone it.

BWR
2014-07-10, 01:37 PM
Generally, it's only recurring or plot-relevant NPCs are worth mentioning because they take up play time and memory space. Don't introduce more NPCs than you need. You want the PCs to have a grumpy landlord, fine but don't introduce him before the PCs decide to rent from him. You want a chief magistrate who dilikes freelancers meddling in his job, wonderful, but don't expect the players to have to interact with him until they start do-gooding.
The exact limit to how many NPCs depends on how you introduce them, how much screen time they have, how interesting they are and how easy they are to remember. If the players can't remember the difference between A and B, or think they were the same person, you have too many. If you spend too much time letting NPCs talk or do stuff when PCs are supposed to be doing stuff, you have too many. If the players have to write a who's who to keep up, you have too many. If you need interesting characters for certain roles, you don't have enough.

Ignoring one-off characters like Random Guard A or Generic Merchant B, I think the most I've come across is 60+ important and/or recurring NPCs in a long-running campaign. Some had more impact on the story than others, some had more screen time, but they were all in some way memorable.

elliott20
2014-07-10, 01:49 PM
depends on how well you can manage them.

It's about your ability to distinguish between them. If you're unable to do that consistently between the name NPCs, you might be better off just merging them. So, while it might be tempting to have one named NPC merchant who sells potions, one named NPC merchant who sells weapons, and another who sells knick-knacks, but they ALL sound the same and act the same, then don't bother having 3, just merge them into one.

Madeiner
2014-07-11, 04:43 AM
I currently have a cast of recurring NPCs, that are treated almost like PCs. I have about uh, 10-15 now.
They are mostly well liked, the characters know them well.

Two tricks helped me.

1) Inspired by mass effect, these NPCs are encountered during the campaign and then stay with the PCs, usually on a ship, or arout doing various things or different quests than the PCs. Each one of them has something it can do well, something it can't do at all, a personality, different quirks, etc. The PCs have come to know them, and can find them when they need their services. A group of them are always at the PCs level, and sometimes they adventure with the PCs, but rarely more than 1 or 2 at at time. Another group is lower level or noncombatants, and they do other things. The tricks here is: have many, but focus on one or two at at time. Make an adventure where said NPC is useful or central to the story, and use that adventure to flesh out the NPC and show his character. Players now know him, and you can switch him to more secondary roles. When they need him, they will remember of him.

2) Never have NPCs with similar names. One trick i read from a book author is always have characters that start with different letters of the alphabet. I had an NPC named Zack, another named Zaxis. The confusion was great. You have 24 letters or more in the alphabet, it should be enough.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-07-11, 09:24 AM
Remember this: from your players' perspective, every new NPC that they have to pay attention to means that their investment in other NPCs has to go down. If they have to stay invested in 15 NPCs, that means they're able to remember less about them and care less about them than if you only give them 5 major NPCs to interact with.

This doesn't mean there's a small cap on the number of NPCs you can introduce in full, though. You could easily have them bumping elbows with 20+ NPCs....but the thing is, you need to make most of those NPCs fade out. Or, rather, let the NPCs fade out that the players don't show interest in.

But a lot of NPCs will never get explored beyond one or two meetings, and that's okay.

valadil
2014-07-11, 09:50 AM
Yes, but a qualified yes.

I think all NPCs need a reason to exist. I mean, they can loiter about your world all they want but you need to justify their screen time. The NPCs should have a reason to exist in the story and not just be there because you had more free time than you knew what to do with.

Furthermore you don't want your NPCs spread too thin. They can have more than one role each. The king might be a quest giver, but he's also the damn king and has plenty of other things to do. If an NPC only pokes the plot from one direction, consider merging NPCs. Take the 5 jobs you want them to do in your story and put those jobs in 2 bodies instead of 5 bodies. The NPCs you get out of it will be more interesting and memorable, plus you'll be reducing the overhead of what the players have to keep track of.

elliott20
2014-07-11, 10:16 AM
2) Never have NPCs with similar names. One trick i read from a book author is always have characters that start with different letters of the alphabet. I had an NPC named Zack, another named Zaxis. The confusion was great. You have 24 letters or more in the alphabet, it should be enough.
This is actually a really simple but incredibly important tip. You need some way to really set your NPCs apart from each other, and having a distinct name works wonders. That and having a distinct voice to go with it.



Yes, but a qualified yes.

I think all NPCs need a reason to exist. I mean, they can loiter about your world all they want but you need to justify their screen time. The NPCs should have a reason to exist in the story and not just be there because you had more free time than you knew what to do with.

Furthermore you don't want your NPCs spread too thin. They can have more than one role each. The king might be a quest giver, but he's also the damn king and has plenty of other things to do. If an NPC only pokes the plot from one direction, consider merging NPCs. Take the 5 jobs you want them to do in your story and put those jobs in 2 bodies instead of 5 bodies. The NPCs you get out of it will be more interesting and memorable, plus you'll be reducing the overhead of what the players have to keep track of.

I'd like to think of it as narrative efficiency. Of course, you'd then have a situation where NPCs might end up doing a ridiculous number of jobs like Sal from Futurama but still, this is how I prefer to handle NPCs myself.

Mr. Mask
2014-07-11, 11:00 AM
Depends how much time and attention they take up. You can have a full Westeros cast if most of them are mentioned in the background or only have vague importance to whatever is going on right now. You need to convey the information correctly, or else the players will stop listening and forget which house their spy is planted in, and who they're fighting.

MrBright01
2014-07-11, 12:42 PM
I tend to limit my NPC's to a small number at a time. These ARE players, they WILL result in dead NPC's. In my current game, they had to set up a town for a Zombie Defense moment. I figured they would gather everyone in one building for easier defense. They instead placed a couple people in each building. They managed to get them all killed. Every named NPC I had, every one with a unique name and personality, NPC's they even knew and loved. Dead. All three pages of them (to be fair, the pages had a ton of notes for me on them, but still...)

Screw it. Bob the Vendor, and 1d6 lightning bolt when they ask for a shop keeper's name.

:) Just kidding. I'm not like that. But it illustrates a point, which is investment on return. If you want to make an entire continent of NPC's, go for it. But the player's WILL get them killed at best, and at worst, they will lose interest with the third Mindflayer Psychiatrist. Make plenty, use sparingly.

mr_odd
2014-07-11, 12:54 PM
Screw it. Bob the Vendor, and 1d6 lightning bolt when they ask for a shop keeper's name.

Would you mind if I put this in my signature?

ElenionAncalima
2014-07-11, 01:15 PM
You can definitely have too many. However, the exact number really depends on how well the GM handle NPCs, as well as how much the players enjoy them. For some groups, one NPC is too many. Your group seems to be handling several pretty well.

Regarding the players, I would watch out for:
1. Are the players being overshadowed by the NPCs?
2. Do the players seem frustrated by NPCs who were not intended to be frustrating?
3. Do the players seem to be dealing with the NPCs out of obligation, instead of actual enjoyment?

As the GM, watch out for:
1. Is running the NPCs becoming unmanageable?
2. Are the NPCs making it too difficult to provide appropriate challenges to the players?