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View Full Version : Traps - Overpriced?



Wippit Guud
2007-02-28, 05:04 AM
I was looking through the traps section of the SRD, and my jaw hit the floor... is this what traps cost? This is insane? Lets take the first trap as an example:

Basic Arrow Trap: CR 1; mechanical; proximity trigger; manual reset; Atk +10 ranged (1d6/x3, arrow); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 2,000 gp.

So, for a CR 1 difficulty, I have a trap that can be found at DC 20 (typical 1st level rogue finds on a 14+), disarmed at DC 20, and not only does it shoot only once (note the manual reset), but it could end up missing the character!

And to put it in perspective, for 185 gp I can pay for an animate dead (150), give the skeleton a bow and 100 arrows (35), stick it behind a murder hole, and it'll shoot a lot more than once.

Kantolin
2007-02-28, 05:20 AM
Nevermind how long it takes you to make traps, due to the way the crafting system works in conjunction to the ludicrously expensive traps.

Apparantly it takes several weeks to tie a string across a hallway...

Edit: Well, to be more blunt... I agree, traps are entirely too expensive for feasibility. Perhaps just to keep them out of the player's hands?

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-28, 05:24 AM
Can skeletons use bows?

Amiria
2007-02-28, 05:28 AM
A skeleton has all the weapon proficiencies of its base crature. With a human warrior as the base creature a skeleton can use a bow.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-28, 05:32 AM
Interesting.

It makes no sense whatsoever, but it's still interesting.

Thomas
2007-02-28, 05:44 AM
The most ridiculous bit is that for their CR, the magical traps are almost always more effective and cheaper. Gah.

Thiel
2007-02-28, 05:54 AM
Yes, as far as I can see it cost about 500gp to dig a hole and cover it with branches

Cubey
2007-02-28, 05:57 AM
I agree, traps are entirely too expensive for feasibility. Perhaps just to keep them out of the player's hands?

I believe this is, in fact, the official explanation. Or at least a widely-accepted conclusion.

Bouldering Jove
2007-02-28, 06:02 AM
The prices apparently assume you're melting down the gold pieces to use as raw materials.

Why would any BBEG do this?

Because they can.

Saph
2007-02-28, 06:24 AM
But you see, traps only cost money when the players make them. Bad guys can magically conjure them to fill the halls of their lairs and the traps will just appear, assuming that they're of an appropriate CR to the party about to encounter them.

So the only reason to have a price on traps is for when players want to make them. In which case the price is going to be ridiculously high, to motivate the players to stop messing around with tripwires and flasks of acid and get back to the adventure.

Hence, expensive traps.

- Saph

Zincorium
2007-02-28, 06:25 AM
The prices apparently assume you're melting down the gold pieces to use as raw materials.

Why would any BBEG do this?

Because they can.

Because the BBEG does not fall into the wealth by level bit, barring an overly literal DM. Honestly, traps are a good way to ostentatiously guard a place, without including anything the pcs might decide to run off with (I don't use adamantine doors for this reason).

Yeah, that pit might be five hundred gold to buy, but the PCs can't sell it for even a pittance, presuming they can figure out a way to take it with them (And I wouldn't put it past 'em).

Telonius
2007-02-28, 12:11 PM
Yes, as far as I can see it cost about 500gp to dig a hole and cover it with branches
I suppose it could be considered a starter dungeon, though, so that makes sense. :smallbiggrin:

Telonius
2007-02-28, 12:17 PM
The prices apparently assume you're melting down the gold pieces to use as raw materials.

Why would any BBEG do this?

Because they can.


Hold on a minute! I think we've finally figured out that crazy piece of D&D economics. Allow me to present it in theoretical form.

C=T(ext)

where C= the cost, in gp, of trade goods produced by means of Cheese (such as hacked-off iron walls, salt created from flesh-to-salt'ed cows, etc)
and T(ext) = the extra cost beyond sane prices, in melted-down gp, of Traps used in BBEGs' lairs.

:smallcool:

Meat Shield
2007-02-28, 12:19 PM
I can't read this thread (and that last bit about starter dungeons) without posting this Nodwick link (http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/gamespyarchive/index.php?date=2006-11-08)

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 12:20 PM
I personally divide trap prices by 10 and cut crafting time for those with Craft (Trapmaking) of at least 5 to "30 minutes-Craft check".

Thiel
2007-02-28, 12:22 PM
A variation of the classical 10ft by 10ft room with an orc guarding a chest.
The 10x10ft pit trap with an orc guarding a chest.:smallbiggrin:

Lapak
2007-02-28, 12:29 PM
A variation of the classical 10ft by 10ft room with an orc guarding a chest.
The 10x10ft pit trap with an orc guarding a chest.:smallbiggrin:Indeed, if traps are that valuable:

An orc guarding a 10x10 pit trap.

Quietus
2007-02-28, 02:32 PM
Just in case the PCs decide they want to take it with them?

TheOOB
2007-02-28, 02:42 PM
Just make all your traps magical. You don't even need skill ranks or a feat to make magic traps.

Lapak
2007-02-28, 03:05 PM
Just in case the PCs decide they want to take it with them?I can't have PCs walking off with my 500g investment, can I? It needs a guard!

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 03:06 PM
This gives me an idea for a variant of the portable hole: the portable pit trap.

Telonius
2007-02-28, 03:12 PM
This gives me an idea for a variant of the portable hole: the portable pit trap.

So, standard Portable Hole with "Permanent Image" applied to it? :smallamused:

Thiel
2007-02-28, 03:15 PM
Imagine all the practical jokes you could have with one of those

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 03:16 PM
So, standard Portable Hole with "Permanent Image" applied to it? :smallamused:

Yes, of an orc sitting on a chest.

Quietus
2007-02-28, 03:49 PM
I've considered doing that myself... as a somewhat related question, do oozes need to breathe?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 03:59 PM
I've considered doing that myself... as a somewhat related question, do oozes need to breathe?


Ooze Type
An ooze is an amorphous or mutable creature, usually mindless.

Features
An ooze has the following features.

10-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
No good saving throws.
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the ooze has an Intelligence score. However, most oozes are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits
An ooze possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
Some oozes have the ability to deal acid damage to objects. In such a case, the amount of damage is equal to 10 + ½ ooze’s HD + ooze’s Con modifier per full round of contact.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
Proficient with its natural weapons only.
Proficient with no armor.
Oozes eat and breathe, but do not sleep.

Yes, they breathe. Oddly.

Quietus
2007-02-28, 04:01 PM
Damn. There goes my "Portable Hole with a Permanent Image over it, and a Gelatinous Cube in it" idea.

Inyssius Tor
2007-02-28, 04:08 PM
And how exactly can you tell if you've smothered an ooze?

I would think that the goo is still both acidic and paralytic, and that your own weight will push you in far enough to Engulf; in fact, I would make a case for resurrecting the Cube if it got food less than 1d6 days after suffocation.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 04:09 PM
It stops burbling.

Arceliar
2007-02-28, 05:36 PM
My favorite trap of all time:

15 ft wide chasm (too short to waste Fly for) over a sufficiently deep drop to kill the party (or the bottom is somehow dangerous. Possibly spikes. Or gelatinous cubes.)

Perfectly smooth walls/floor so there's no obvious reason to attempt using a grappling hook.

And just before the far edge of the chasm you place a permanent Wall of Force. Early on it's an almost guaranteed way to show your PCs you don't mind killing off their meatshield or skillmonkey.

Kantolin
2007-02-28, 07:17 PM
DM: You see a pit
Player: Ah, cool. I jump over it.
DM: You die.

...sounds fun.

Turcano
2007-02-28, 08:36 PM
My favorite trap of all time:

15 ft wide chasm (too short to waste Fly for) over a sufficiently deep drop to kill the party (or the bottom is somehow dangerous. Possibly spikes. Or gelatinous cubes.)

Perfectly smooth walls/floor so there's no obvious reason to attempt using a grappling hook.

And just before the far edge of the chasm you place a permanent Wall of Force. Early on it's an almost guaranteed way to show your PCs you don't mind killing off their meatshield or skillmonkey.

You do know that it's not the DM's job to go out of his way to kill PCs, right?

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-28, 08:41 PM
Most broken trap ever...

Magical trap of Cure LIght Wounds, which auto-resets itself.

Congratulations, the party has an infinite number of CLWs to play with.

Even better, it can be used to determine if a creature is undead or not (vamps, Litches with the ability to conceal their true nature, etc...). If it hurts them, then they're undead.

Arceliar
2007-02-28, 08:53 PM
You do know that it's not the DM's job to go out of his way to kill PCs, right?

Yes. But that doesn't mean I can't keep them on their toes. Besides, for all they'd know the other ledge is an illusion and the chasm extends another 10ft. They could throw something to test said theory, see that there is a wall of force (or some other invisible obstruction) and find another way to cross/go around.

Quietus
2007-02-28, 08:57 PM
Sorry Arc, but I think that'd be pushing the limits of reasonability just a little. It's one thing to get into the fun version of paranoid, but not so much when you're making your PCs do things like spend five minutes throwing rocks at every chasm they come to.

Arceliar
2007-02-28, 09:05 PM
Sorry Arc, but I think that'd be pushing the limits of reasonability just a little. It's one thing to get into the fun version of paranoid, but not so much when you're making your PCs do things like spend five minutes throwing rocks at every chasm they come to.

Move action: pick up rock.
Standard action: Throw said rock.

And I only do things as cynical as that when DMing for particularly irresponsible parties who fail to interact with anything properly outside of combat.

But yes, I do tend to push that particular limit a bit. Of course...there's no problem in falling if you're, you know, considering the possibility of failing the jump check to begin with. Tie self off with rope. Problem solved.

And if you think that's sinister.... for high level parties, instead of using your standard pit trap with spikes at the bottom you can use a variation: blades jetting out of the walls and a Teleportation Circle at the bottom, which sends the victims back to just below the top of the pit should they survive the fall.

Leon
2007-03-01, 06:10 AM
a Teleportation Circle at the bottom, which sends the victims back to just below the top of the pit should they survive the fall.

Thats a favourite of mine - minus the blades

Thiel
2007-03-01, 07:14 AM
My all-time favourite trap: The reversed pit-trap.
A hole in the roof and a zone of reversed gravity.