Consolidating Skills

[gorilla-turtle]

It seems as if a few skills could be moderately combined together without being missed, assuming one did not find reason to remove it from the game entirely.

3.5 (and 3.0) provided us with the following skills (I may have missed a few. Some were included for completeness.):

1.Appraise
2.Autohypnosis
3.Balance
4.Bluff
5.Climb
6.Concentration
7.Craft
8.Decipher Script
9.Diplomacy
10.Disable Device
11.Disguise
12.Escape Artist
13.Forgery
14.Gather Information
15.Handle Animal
16.Heal
17.Hide
18.Intimidate
19.Jump
20.Knowledge
21.Listen
22.Move Silently
23.Open Lock
24.Perform
25.Profession
26.Psicraft
27.Ride
28.Search
29.Sense Motive
30.Sleight of Hand
31.Speak Language
32.Spellcraft
33.Spot
34.Survival
35.Swim
36.Tumble
37.Use Magic Device
38.Use Psionic Device
39.Use Rope
40.Skill Tricks
41.Iaijutsu Focus
42.Lucid Dreaming
43.Control Shape
44.Truespeak

Even not counting the obvious non-core skills, the list seems like it could be consolidated rather well, with the only real affect on gameplay being that Rogues are free to have less intelligence to fullfil their duties (Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, Move Silently, and Hide take away the majority of the class granted skillpoints alone), and other classes are free to be able to experiment on skills they might not normally take.

I have attempted to do so; I would appreciate feedback on how well my changes are. I would add the following skills, replacing the listed additional skills.

Adroitness (Dex, Escape Artist & Use Rope)
Awareness (Wis, Listen, Search, and Spot)
Focus (Con, Autohypnosis and Concentration)
Grammar (Int, Decipher Script, Forgery, and Speak Language)
Gymnastics (Dex, Tumble and Balance)
Information (Int, Knowledge and Appraise)
Magicraft (Int, Psicraft and Spellcraft)
Magiteck (Cha, Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device)
Physical (Str, Climb, Jump, and Swim)
Reasoning (Cha, Diplomacy and Gather Information)
Sabotage (Dex, Disable Device and Open Lock)
Sneak (Dex, Hide and Move Silently)
Subterfuge (Cha, Bluff and Disguise)

For a clearer list, one would be left with the following:

1. Adroitness (Dex)
2. Awareness (Wis)
3. Control Shape (Wis)
4. Craft (Int, Multiple)
5. Focus (Con)
6. Grammar (Int)
7. Gymnastics (Dex)
8. Handle Animal (Cha)
9. Heal (Wis)
10. Iaijutsu Focus (Cha)
11. Information (Int, Multiple)
12. Intimidate (Cha)
13. Lucid Dreaming (Wis)
14. Magicraft (Int)
15. Magiteck (Cha)
16. Perform (Cha, Multiple)
17. Physical (Str)
18. Profession (Wis, Multiple)
19. Reasoning (Cha)
20. Ride (Dex)
21. Sabotage (Dex)
22. Sense Motive (Wis)
23. Skill Tricks (Multiple)
24. Sleight of Hand (Dex)
25. Sneak (Dex)
26. Subterfuge (Cha)
27. Survival (Wis)
28. Truespeak (Int)

I contemplate a few other changes, such as folding Control Shape into Focus, Truespeak into Magicraft, Handle Animal with Ride into a new skill, and likewise Heal with Survival. I would also modify a few skills. Craft should be able to enable crafting of magic items without spells, at least with a matching Magicraft. Diplomacy has several good rewrites available to use in place of the normally broken mechanics. The ability for Focus to enable casters to keep spells when distracted or defended should be lessened. Intimidate should take in account other factors, such as the size, strength, and power differences of targets and users. Lucid Dreaming would need the dreamhart aspect removed. I contemplate removing Profession entirely. Sense Motive seems too good to require merging anywhere, but took weak to stand as is.

[Rethmar]

That would definitely work (Pathfinder has done this with some of the skills), though you may need to alter the amount of skill points granted per level.

The one that stand out to me the most is Information. I'd drop a lot of points in there and just breeze through every knowledge check in the game. I would know everything.

[gorilla-turtle]

That would definitely work (Pathfinder has done this with some of the skills), though you may need to alter the amount of skill points granted per level.

The one that stand out to me the most is Information. I'd drop a lot of points in there and just breeze through every knowledge check in the game. I would know everything.

I should have searched harder for consolidated skill lists, then. Quite frankly, I feel I am fine with the skill amounts as is, if not feeling that classes might make use of more, even with consolidated lists. Though that is neither here nor there.

As was noted in the second spoiler, Information would still remain a skill with multiple individual functions, like Craft, Perform, and Profession still are. Appraise would actually be based on your ranks in an individual subject, such as a character with (Religious) Information appraising a specific holy symbol, or a user with (Dungeoneering) Information appraising a material found in a cave.

[Rethmar]

As was noted in the second spoiler, Information would still remain a skill with multiple individual functions, like Craft, Perform, and Profession still are. Appraise would actually be based on your ranks in an individual subject, such as a character with (Religious) Information appraising a specific holy symbol, or a user with (Dungeoneering) Information appraising a material found in a cave.

Ah, didn't see that second spoiler at all. Oops. Works pretty well then, I'd say.

[Jigawatts]

I mostly like how Pathfinder did things. Although my biggest complaint is that they rolled Search into Perception. I fully support combining Spot and Listen into a single wisdom based Perception check, but I believe that Search should have been left its own entity as an intelligence based check. I like what 5E has done with its Investigation skill.

[gorilla-turtle]

Be aware that the overall result of skill consolidation is that it will reduce the value of high-skill classes (rogues and other skill monkeys, essentially), taking aware some of the aspects that make their niche their own. Such consolidation actually works against skill monkey classes, by reducing their uniqueness; it makes it easier for other classes to cover their niche.

I am not so sure I see what you mean, given that just because some of the skills are consolidated does not mean that they are easier to access without work, and with work someone would find a work around to being able to access a skill even without consolidation.

I did a little ploting out of the skill lists of the non skill monkey core classes. This is what I found out:

Cleric Prechanges: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge History, Knowledge Religion, Knowledge Planes, Profession, Spellcraft. (8 Skills, plus Crafts and Professions)
Cleric Postchanges: Focus, Craft, Persuasion, Heal, Arcane Information, Historic Information, Religious Information, Planar Information, Profession, Magicraft. (8 Skills, plus crafts and Professions)

Fighter Prechanges: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim. (6 Skills, plus Crafts)
Fighter postchanges: Physical, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Ride. (4 Skills, plus Crafts)

Paladin Prechanges: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge Royalty, Knowledge Religion, Profession, Ride, and Sense Motive. (8 Skills, plus Crafts and Professions)
Paladin Postchanges: Focus, Craft, Persuasion, Handle Animal, Heal, Royal Information, Religious Informasion, Profession, Ride, and Sense Motive. (8 Skills, plus Crafts and Professions)

Sorcerer Prechanges: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge Arcana, Profession, and Spellcraft. (4 Skills, plus Crafts and Profession)
Sorcerer Postchanges: Subterfuge, Focus, Craft, Arcane Knowledge, Profession, and Magicraft. (4 Skills, plus Crafts and Profession)

Wizard Prechanges: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, All Knowledges, Profession, and Spellcraft. (13 Skills, plus Crafts and Profession)
Wizard Postchanges: Focus, Craft, Grammar, All Information, Profession, and Magicraft. (13 Skills, plus Crafts and Profession)

--------------------------------

Barbarian Prechanges: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Ride, Survival, and Swim. (8 Skills, plus Crafts)
Barbarian Postchanges: Physical, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Awareness, Ride, Survival. (6 Skills, plus Crafts)

Druid Prechanges: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge Nature, Listen, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim. (11 Skills, plus Crafts and Professions)
Druid Postchanges: Focus, Craft, Persuasion, Handle Animal, Heal, Natural Information, Awareness, Profession, Ride, Magicraft, Survival, Physical. (10 Skills, plus Crafts and Professions)

Monk Prechanges: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Tumble. (15 Skills, plus Craft, Perform and Profession)
Monk Postchanges: Gymnastics, Physical, Focus, Craft, Persuasion, Adroitness, Stealth, Arcane Information, Religious Information, Awareness, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive. (10 Skills, plus Craft, Perform, and Profession)

Assuming I made no mistakes, no one seems to be able to access anything too far outside of what they could normally access. The biggest changes would be that the skill points of the Monk and Barbarian go a bit further, which does not seem like such a bad thing. I fail to see how this would hurt the Bard, Ranger, or Rogue, rather than help them in being able to perform their designed jobs.


I mostly like how Pathfinder did things. Although my biggest complaint is that they rolled Search into Perception. I fully support combining Spot and Listen into a single wisdom based Perception check, but I believe that Search should have been left its own entity as an intelligence based check. I like what 5E has done with its Investigation skill.

I do fear how strong Awareness is, since I initially made the same decision. I actually now contemplate merging Sense Motive with Search into Investigation...