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View Full Version : Parrying, and some feats [feats and system]



elliott20
2007-02-28, 12:08 PM
I remember a while back somebody did a parry feat and a series of feats building off of it that used the whole "opposed attack roll" mechanic. In it, they basically traded attacks for defense instead.

I thought it was a great idea but seeing as I'm a fan of just quickly adding a modifier as opposed to extra rolling, I decided to try out a slightly different approach.

I've also created some feats around the mechanic. Most of these feats should somewhat interchangeable with the "fighting defensively" and "total defense" actions. I haven't spent that much time trying to figure out potential cheese out of these. But I'm sure they're out there. Some of the feats here have some pretty steep requirements as a result of needing feats that stem from different trees. this is completely intentional and some of the future feats off of this will allow the character to do some fantastic things. (And by making it an involving tree, it will make fighters the prime candidate for taking these feats)

Variant Rule: Parrying

Anybody can parry. Some people can just do it better than others. When choosing to parry, a character must announce it on his turn.

When parrying, a character can elect to give up an attack to receive a dodge AC bonus for that turn. The bonus is equal to the attack bonus of the attack given up divided by 5 after all modifiers from feats, skills and circumstantial modifiers have been applied. (rounded up)

A character with multiple attacks as a result of his BAB can give up more than one attack to gain a greater AC bonus in this fashion. Thus, a fighter with a BAB of 15 can give up his attack with the highest BAB for a +3 AC until the beginning of his next turn. If he were to elect to give up his second highest attack (at a +10), he could gain an additional +2 AC bonus.

Keep in mind, this rule still requires that the character follows the standard actions allowed rule. Seeing as this action is contingent upon the attack actions, it follows a similar rule. Thus, in order for the fighter from the previous example to trade all of his attacks for AC bonuses, he would have to take a full round action doing so.

As a result of the source of these actions, taking a full round action to perform this action is considered using the "Total Defense" action while using a standard action to perform this defensive action is considered a "fighting defensive" action. Seeing as these actions are very similar in nature, you cannot gain both bonuses at the same time. This means that for someone who does not know how to fight that well (and thus have a low BAB), it would be more beneficial for them to simply take the traditional Total Defense action or Fighting Defensively action, while a warrior with considerable more skill can actually benefit from his extra training more effectively.

example:

A fighter with a BAB of +14/+9/+4, should he decide to, he can trade in his second highest attack to gain a +2 AC dodge bonus until the beginning of next turn.

However, say this fighter also has power attack, and has elected to use 4 points on power attack. This makes his attack bonus for this round to be +10/+5/+0. trading in his second highest attack would in this case only yield a +1 AC dodge bonus.

FEATS TO GO WITH THE MECHANIC
Improved Parry [General]
You've learned how to more effectively defend yourself against incoming physical attacks.
Prerequisites: BAB +5
Benefits: When trading off attacks for the dodge AC bonus, you gain a +2 dodge bonus for every 5 points of BAB of the attack.
Normal: When you trade attacks for the dodge AC bonus, you gain a +1 dodge bonus for every 5 points of BAB of the attack.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection

Parry Momentum[General]
You've learned how to use the opponents blow to assist your own movement
Prerequisites: Mobility, Improved Parry
Benefits: If an enemy who you have designated your dodge bonus to misses a melee attack targetting you whilst you're performing the parry action, you may make an immediate 5 foot step.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection.
Special: If the parry variant is not used, exchange the word "parry" with "Total Defense or Fighting Defensively" instead.

Expert Riposte [General]
You have honed your skills of combat so that you know how to quickly capitalize on your opponent's mistake
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, BAB+5
Benefits: If an opponent that you have designated your dodge bonus to misses a melee attack targetting you whilst you're performing the parry action, you may make an immediate attack of opportunity that does count against your total attacks of opportunity.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection

Greater Parry Momentum [General]
Your ability to utilize your foes blow to assist your own movement is so efficient that it's as if you're light as a feather
Prerequisites: Parry Momentum, Dex 19
Benefits: If an enemy who you have designated your dodge bonus to misses a melee attack targetting you whilst you're performing the parry action, you may make an immediate move-equivalent action
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection

Magic Projectile Parry [General]
You have learned how to parry not just physical attacks, but some magical attacks as well
Prerequisites: Improved Parry, BAB +10, Deflect Arrow
Benefits: When using the parry action, you may now apply your parry AC bonus to your spell SR as a competence bonus when targetted by any ray or missile based spells.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection

REVISED: Two Weapon Defense [General]
You've learned the two-weapon art of defending with your off-hand weapon.
physical attacks.
Prerequisites: Two-weapon-fighting, dex 15
Benefits: You may now trade your off-hand attacks when using your parry action.
Normal: You can only trade off attacks that come from having a high BAB.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection


Flurry Of Blocks [General]
You've learned to use your flurry of blows in a defensive manner as well.
physical attacks.
Prerequisites: Flurry of Blows ability, BAB +4
Benefits: You may now trade extra attacks from your flurry of blows when using the parry action
Normal: You can only trade off attacks that come from having a high BAB.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection

elliott20
2007-02-28, 04:45 PM
hmm.... that bad huh?

magic8BALL
2007-02-28, 10:21 PM
I think this is better than my version a parry... simply becouse this one requires less rolling. But rolling is fun. Games are suposed to be fun, yes? Anyway, this seems very sound.

A few questions:

By Divide by 5, do you mean rounding up or down, and is there a minimum of +1, or +0?

To examplify:

I'm a 10th level rogue.
I have a BAB of +7/+2.
If I give up my fist attack for parrying, do I gain a +2 or +1 bonus to AC?
If I give up my second attack for parrying, do I gain a +1 or no bonus to AC?

I'm a 11th level Ranger With TWF.
I have a BAB of +11/+6/+1, and extra attacks with my off hands at +11/+6/+1, but all attacks at -2.
I use my second attack with my on hand, and my third attack with my off hand to parry.
With my on hand, do I use my BAB of +6 to determine how much AC bonus I get for parrying, or +4?
With my off hand, do I use my BAB of +1 to determine how much AC bonus I get for parrying, or -1?
What happens in the second case, useing -1 to attack?

I'm a 7th level monk.
Durring a flurry, I effectivly have a BAB of +4/+4, but actually have a BAB of +5 with one extra attack and a -1 penalty to all attacks.
I give up my second attack for parrying.
Do I gain an AC bonus of +1 or +0 from my attack?

I think that covers all the curly questions that are bound to pop up as soon as I try to introduce this at a table...

Roethke
2007-02-28, 10:36 PM
hmm.... that bad huh?

No, Not at all, I actually think these are the most streamlined, balanced set of rules for parryign I've seen. It sits well, if you want to go all out defense, you have to sit still, and even then there's diminishing returns. So it isn't open to ridiculous AC abuse (well maybe the Dwarven Defender who's sitting still anyhow, but then again, he is a 'Defender').

Gives more options to Haste, as well. I could see blowing a +10 attack for a bonus +2 AC, if I'm getting a nother full attack. And with Improved Parry, it starts to be a serious bonus.

How would it interact with Power Attack? That is, for the +15/+10/+5 Fighter, if you power attack for 10 along with a parry, you're at +5/+0/-5. Could you give up you +0 for the +2 dodge bonus w/ improved parry? Would you use the original BAB (I'd suggest not)?

Same deal with Combat Expertise. Need some direction on stacking, or lack thereof.


Anyhow, I like very much. Just the special situations to enumerate. The DM in me cringes at the fighter 'parrying' a spell, but that's just personal bias, it's not really unbalanced.

~R

ArmorArmadillo
2007-02-28, 10:51 PM
Question: Does it stack with Defensive Fighting/Full Defense/Combat Expertise? Because if it does, I feel like it can combine in excessive ways.

elliott20
2007-02-28, 11:32 PM
I'm going to field these one at a time.



By Divide by 5, do you mean rounding up or down, and is there a minimum of +1, or +0?To make this option still useful to people want to burn attacks regardless, I would make it a round up with a minimum of +1 for each attack given up.

But your monk example also brings up a very interesting question, one that Roethke also brings up.

And reasonably, anything that takes off your effectiveness should also effect how well you can parry.

It then stands to reason that calculation for your dodge AC bonus should be based off of your attack bonus AFTER all modifiers have been applied, but only allowing the exchange that is up to your BAB. Therefore, a character with a +15/+10/+5, who elects to take use his combat expertise for 5 points, and power attack for another 5 would be at +5/+0/-5. His exchange would come out yielding a +1/+1/+1 AC dodge bonus for each respective attack. This would be akin to making a half hearted parry attempts. seeing as combat expertise provides a dodge bonus, the AC bonus stacks with it. again, that was my intention since combat expertise is supposed to represent those who are more efficient at defending themselves.

But what happens when you have extra attacks from other combat options? well, the idea I have as stand makes it so that you cannot use those attacks to parry.

However, this opens up some other ideas.

Off-hand Parry [General]
You've learned the two-weapon art of defending with your off-hand weapon.
physical attacks.
Prerequisites: Two-weapon-fighting, BAB +8
Benefits: You may now trade your off-hand attacks when using your parry action.
Normal: You can only trade off attacks that come from having a high BAB.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection


Flurry Of Blocks [General]
You've learned to use your flurry of blows in a defensive manner as well.
physical attacks.
Prerequisites: Flurry of Blows ability, BAB +8
Benefits: You may now trade extra attacks from your flurry of blows when using the parry action
Normal: You can only trade off attacks that come from having a high BAB.
Special: Fighters may take this feat as part of their bonus feat selection


The DM in me cringes at the fighter 'parrying' a spell, but that's just personal bias, it's not really unbalanced.

Yeah this one does make me wonder a little bit to be honest. But part of the point of this is to try to expand what a fighter can do in terms of defense beyond just physical combat.

that's why I thought it would be cool to allow the fighter to parry missile magic in some fashion. It's actually not too different from the Epic monk feat that does a very similar thing. But I'm not too happy with the mechanics on this one since it feels a little clunky. Magic having a different mechanic than physical combat makes this a tricky one.

elliott20
2007-02-28, 11:33 PM
Question: Does it stack with Defensive Fighting/Full Defense/Combat Expertise? Because if it does, I feel like it can combine in excessive ways.

oops, missed this one.

As stated in the previous post, it does not stack with fighting defensively or full defense. it, however, does stack with combat expertise. seeing as the fighters had to pay a feat to get this, I think it's only fair.