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Silus
2014-07-11, 08:02 PM
So, Star Wars game, party cohesion has broken down. The Jawa engineer in the party has put a bounty/hit out on my character (Ex-Republic soldier) and has hired another player (A Trandoshen Bounty Hunter) to collect said bounty, ending in my character more or less slipping into a coma for the time being. Unwanted, unwarranted PvP just pisses me off and I don't know a proper way to deal with it outside of exacting my revenge when I roll as DM.

So please GitP, advise me, how can I deal with unwanted PvP?

Thrudd
2014-07-11, 08:12 PM
Talk to the DM and the other players about it? Let the Wookie win?

Pex
2014-07-11, 08:18 PM
Tell the DM to tell the players to knock it off. Retcon everything that happened didn't, it will not be discussed further, and it will never happen again. If the DM refuses, he's enabling and part of the problem. The solution then is to leave the group. Nothing else will work. "I'm just roleplaying" or "That's just what my character would do." is never an excuse to be a jerk.

Silus
2014-07-11, 08:20 PM
Talk to the DM and the other players about it? Let the Wookie win?

Well we're currently working through it maaaaaaaybe. The DM is trying to make this work out somehow because apparently he actually likes my character and the story he's got lined up.

Slipperychicken
2014-07-11, 08:23 PM
A) That jawa seems like a real jerk.

B) In the future, it seems like your best bet is to talk to the GM and try to get PvP restrictions/ban through.

C) As either player or GM, you can talk to your group about how you dislike PvP and how to deal with it (i.e. Ban PvP).

D) Also come up with a group definition of PvP, hopefully something which includes jerk moves like stealing, trolling, griefing, and charging PCs to join the party. A PvP ban will be ineffective unless those sorts of activities are also curbed.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-07-11, 09:01 PM
exacting my revenge when I roll as DM
Whatever you do, don't do this. It'll only lead to an ever-escalating spiral of revenge and resentment.

Silus
2014-07-11, 09:02 PM
A) That jawa seems like a real jerk.

B) In the future, it seems like your best bet is to talk to the GM and try to get PvP restrictions/ban through.

C) As either player or GM, you can talk to your group about how you dislike PvP and how to deal with it (i.e. Ban PvP).

D) Also come up with a group definition of PvP, hopefully something which includes jerk moves like stealing, trolling, griefing, and charging PCs to join the party. A PvP ban will be ineffective unless those sorts of activities are also curbed.

A) The Jawa is played by a manipulative jerkass. Like "Hey you wanna join the party and get off world? 500 credits and that Star Destroyer data core you're carrying. Also you clean the ship."

B) This is roughly the...third game that PvP has happened against me (Palladium and NWoD before). At least this DM is invested in keeping my character alive.

C) Apparently the Jawa placed the hit due to my (OOC) wanting to plug his greedy SOB of a character in the face for jacking all my money in the first session and leaving me penniless (The bit in part A).

D) When I get around to running my Pathfinder game I'm going to mandate 1) no evil characters, 2) no PvP, 3) Work the characters at creation so they all get along.


Whatever you do, don't do this. It'll only lead to an ever-escalating spiral of revenge and resentment.

Aye, I'm not gonna do this despite me REALLY wanting to.

Scratch that I'm putting in an immortal Kender in my next campaign.

Dimers
2014-07-11, 09:18 PM
So, Star Wars game, party cohesion has broken down. The Jawa engineer in the party has put a bounty/hit out on my character and has hired another player to collect said bounty.

I have no advice. I'd just like to say that the situation stinks and I'm sad that it was inflicted on you. :smallfrown:

Tengu_temp
2014-07-11, 09:39 PM
Honestly? I'd ask the DM to kick the Jawa's player from the group. He sounds like a piece of **** who's just making the game less fun for everyone else.

Silus
2014-07-11, 10:50 PM
Honestly? I'd ask the DM to kick the Jawa's player from the group. He sounds like a piece of **** who's just making the game less fun for everyone else.

Honestly next time some PvP flies my way I'm just packing up and going home. I just don't want to deal with it any more.

icefractal
2014-07-11, 11:40 PM
Wait a minute - you're not the one with the "cursed by losing a sword, party member used an illusion to make the reason seem different" thing, are you?

If so, and it's the same people involved, then I think these people are just ass-hats. I would advise against playing with them. At all.

If you do continue playing with them, then start nipping this **** in the bud. The moment that guy pulled the "500 credits to join our crew" bull****, you stop and tell them OOC that it's not cool. If they try to claim they're "just playing their character", then say fine, you're going to "just play your character" and choose not to join their crew. They can enjoy having the party split and only being on screen half the time.

Segev
2014-07-11, 11:48 PM
Honestly, you should talk to the DM about this. Let him know that you're not tolerating any more abuse from the jawa's player. Talk to the other players as well; see if they are okay with how things are going. Ask them flat-out, if needs be, if they just don't want you gaming with them. Explain that the way the party so frequently turns on your character at the behest of the jawa's player is ruining any desire you have to play. Ask them not to cooperate with it, if they value your presence.

If they do not value your presence, don't play. Find a new group of friends to play with. Ones who will actually act like friends.

LokiRagnarok
2014-07-12, 01:33 AM
Weren't you the guy who was warned by his DM the Jawa player has resentment against you?

Silus
2014-07-12, 01:51 AM
Weren't you the guy who was warned by his DM the Jawa player has resentment against you?

Apparently he took exception with my guy poiting a blaster at his face when he trued to extort me for money a second time in two sessions. So he decided to go the jerk route and hire a (PC) bounty hunter to kill my character.

I plan on sticking around with the group through this Star Wars game because I may actually get to get theough a character arc. But I'm also starting college classes next Monday so I'll see if I can't work on getting a new D&D group together.

Sith_Happens
2014-07-12, 03:36 AM
Apparently he took exception with my guy poiting a blaster at his face when he trued to extort me for money a second time in two sessions. So he decided to go the jerk route and hire a (PC) bounty hunter to kill my character.

That sounds an awful lot like a logical buildup to me; one hair trigger fell victim to another. The Jawa's player is still an asshat, but in the future you might not want to point weapons at other PCs without being prepared for them to take it seriously.

Waar
2014-07-12, 03:56 AM
2) no PvP, 3) Work the characters at creation so they all get along.

I strongly recommend this, and I always run with a similar rule whenever I'm the GM. Unwanted PvP conflict is an ooc problem and should be resolved as such, since the problem is related to some of the players not enjoing it.

Silus
2014-07-12, 04:02 AM
That sounds an awful lot like a logical buildup to me; one hair trigger fell victim to another. The Jawa's player is still an asshat, but in the future you might not want to point weapons at other PCs without being prepared for them to take it seriously.

Well the guy's got a history of screwing me over. Honestly this is the one guy at the table that would get me to dive across the table to bust his teeth in. And honestly, when my turn in te DMing rotation comes up, unless things change massively, I'll tell him straight up that I don't want him in the group for my game.


I strongly recommend this, and I always run with a similar rule whenever I'm the GM. Unwanted PvP conflict is an ooc problem and should be resolved as such, since the problem is related to some of the players not enjoing it.

Interestingly when I told them that those were the rules I was gonna institute for my game, the response was "Gnome and Halfling Paladins!"

Sith_Happens
2014-07-12, 04:41 AM
Interestingly when I told them that those were the rules I was gonna institute for my game, the response was "Gnome and Halfling Paladins!"

Small people, big hearts.:smallwink:

Silus
2014-07-12, 04:54 AM
Small people, big hearts.:smallwink:

Well I've instead opted to run te Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path and allow everything. All races, classes, archetypes, feats, etc. from all the official Paizo material and 3rd Party, Pathfinder geared stuff, and even 15-point custom races in the players want.

'Cause I've hit that point where I'm just stopping caring about giving this group the homebrew stuff I've been working on. So I'm gonna let them run wild on a world I don't care about.

Flashy
2014-07-12, 03:39 PM
Scratch that I'm putting in an immortal Kender in my next campaign.

Wow. That seems a little harsh.

Silus
2014-07-12, 03:40 PM
Wow. That seems a little harsh.

Well it'd feed into their need for rampant destruction.

sktarq
2014-07-12, 04:30 PM
Well it'd feed into their need for rampant destruction.

You do realize Kender can be pointed at things? Manipulated? and if immortal used to remove cities and nations from the game world?

tahu88810
2014-07-12, 05:14 PM
Walk away from the table.

But first, let your character die. Minmax to hell and back, and then massacre their PCs because "it's what my "[your]" character would do"

Segev
2014-07-12, 07:49 PM
Just don't let him extort the money from you. If he tries, ask him OOC what his deal is. If he says "it's what my character would do," reply by saying, "My character won't put up with it, and finds some other group to work with." Offer the other PCs a chance to walk away with you, and the GM a chance to move his plot to wherever you go in search of adventure without the jawa.

Don't escalate to violence yo'ure not willing to simply finish with PC-killing (and possibly game-ending) violence. Tell the GM you're going to go there BEFORE you do so in-game, and if he asks you not to, do the "walk away" thing.

If that removes you from the game, well, that removes you from the game. You obviously weren't really wanted in it if nobody backs you up.

Ninjaxenomorph
2014-07-13, 03:08 PM
To be fair to the GM (which would be me), I never intended it to escalate to PVP. The jawa's player had initially informed me that he was going to leave it as a fake job for NPC hunters. Which, while they would have been a challenge, they are more balanced for real hunts, not combat lizards like our player hunters. I was not informed until the session that he had made alternate arrangements. Next session I will forbid PVP except under extreme circumstances (such as blatant betrayal of the entire party).

Also, I have a new preventative measure. Bounty Hunter Sensitivity Training. As presented by Rodian lawyers.

Silus
2014-07-13, 04:53 PM
To be fair to the GM (which would be me), I never intended it to escalate to PVP. The jawa's player had initially informed me that he was going to leave it as a fake job for NPC hunters. Which, while they would have been a challenge, they are more balanced for real hunts, not combat lizards like our player hunters. I was not informed until the session that he had made alternate arrangements. Next session I will forbid PVP except under extreme circumstances (such as blatant betrayal of the entire party).

Also, I have a new preventative measure. Bounty Hunter Sensitivity Training. As presented by Rodian lawyers.

*Snickers* Greedo & Greedo, attorneys at law.

Sith_Happens
2014-07-13, 05:12 PM
*Snickers* Greedo & Greedo, attorneys at law.

Defense attorneys I assume, given their skill at creating reasonable doubt as to whether their clients did, in fact, shoot first.:smalltongue:

Silus
2014-07-13, 05:42 PM
Defense attorneys I assume, given their skill at creating reasonable doubt as to whether their clients did, in fact, shoot first.:smalltongue:

*Laughs* Now I wanna draw a pair of Rodians in business suits with suitcases.

But it would seem that this is all taken care of, the DM's puttin' the hammer down on PvP so I suppose that sorts out that.

I'd like to thank everyone here for their input and advice :smallbiggrin:

Sith_Happens
2014-07-13, 06:22 PM
Oh yeah, since when do Jawas extort people? If he want your money, he should get it the old-fashioned way: By offering you a great deal on a droid that's exactly what you're looking for, honest.:smalltongue:

Silus
2014-07-13, 06:27 PM
Oh yeah, since when do Jawas extort people? If he want your money, he should get it the old-fashioned way: By offering you a great deal on a droid that's exactly what you're looking for, honest.:smalltongue:

*Shrugs* No idea. This guy has a history of playing sneaky manipulative characters (If you're familiar with my Cursed Sword incident, he was the Mind Mage responsible).

veti
2014-07-13, 11:44 PM
Either PvP is allowed, or it isn't. Or there's some middle ground where some aspects are allowed but others aren't. Or there's some in-game reason for the group to stick together, and PvP is - disincentivised, one way or another, even though it's not explicitly disallowed. (This last is my favoured approach. If the Jawa engineer thinks he can afford to lose your PC, that suggests that the DM is giving him way too many options. Obi-Wan doesn't hire the Millennium Falcon because it's the best ship going or he particularly likes Han - he does it because it's the only ship that remotely meets his needs.)

But it's really a discussion the group needs to have at some point. Ideally, before character generation, but otherwise, as soon as possible afterwards. Then everyone's on the same page, and you can all take measures appropriately.

Pointing your blaster in a guy's face was silly, because once you've threatened violence, you can't really complain about violence being used against you. The correct procedure at that point was probably verbal abuse and pigheaded disobedience - force him to be the first to make a physical threat. Then there's a better chance that the other PCs will be on your side.

But hiring a hitman, after a threat made in the heat of the moment, is an overreaction at the very least. Hiring one against a fellow PC is a particularly douchey overreaction. And hiring a PC hitman is definitely time for the DM to bang heads together. If he's now doing that then great, and I hope he'll learn the lesson to keep a lid on this sort of thing in future.

Ninjaxenomorph
2014-07-14, 12:26 AM
The PC bounty hunters are part of a guild, which now the entire party indirectly works for. And what they did was very, very illegal under their contracts. They now have to do an additional free bounty to clear their debt to the guild. They don't seem to grasp how bad that is.

icefractal
2014-07-14, 02:19 AM
*Shrugs* No idea. This guy has a history of playing sneaky manipulative characters (If you're familiar with my Cursed Sword incident, he was the Mind Mage responsible).This guy in particular seems to either have it out for you personally, or just be an ******* in general. If you're going to play with him in any future things, make him agree up front not to be a jerk, and get the GM on board as well. "Let things fall as they may" might work in general, but when you have someone trying to cause trouble this much, the GM needs to put their foot down and tell the player in question to cut that **** out.

Like in this case, stopping the game to sort this out, at one of the various points along the way, would probably have been better than letting it play out 'naturally'.

Segev
2014-07-14, 08:20 AM
I appreciate having the GM's perspective in thread, here, but I didn't quite follow his post. GM, could you please explain what you thought the jawa was proposing, and how it "went down" at the session from your perspective?

Ninjaxenomorph
2014-07-14, 09:03 PM
What the jawa WAS proposing, and planning for: Make a fake bounty notice, complete with some fake messageboard posts, for about 10,000. Definitely illegal, but limited to Nar Shaddaa, giving me freedom to throw what hunters I please at the problem. If it was carried out to term, there would have been next to no fallout for the jawa, at least from his point of view. These hunters were going to have some cash on them, which would have helped Church (Silus's character) out with his money problems; between them, they would have had 1500 credits and a buttload of weapons. Which, by the way, Church really really needs now, after this fallout.

Silus
2014-07-14, 09:13 PM
What the jawa WAS proposing, and planning for: Make a fake bounty notice, complete with some fake messageboard posts, for about 10,000. Definitely illegal, but limited to Nar Shaddaa, giving me freedom to throw what hunters I please at the problem. If it was carried out to term, there would have been next to no fallout for the jawa, at least from his point of view. These hunters were going to have some cash on them, which would have helped Church (Silus's character) out with his money problems; between them, they would have had 1500 credits and a buttload of weapons. Which, by the way, Church really really needs now, after this fallout.

If I may, possibly have a stash of weapons waiting for him at the remains of his home on Chandrila? I was going to try and divert the group over there to 1) get some character development in (The anniversary of his wife and daughter's death is coming up and he needs to pay his respects) and 2) let some of the players in on why Church is out and about in old-timey armor with dangerous weapons, salvaging Star Destroyer data cores. Pulls up some old floorboards and shifts some rubble and bam, backup grenade launcher.

dps
2014-07-15, 01:57 AM
Either PvP is allowed, or it isn't. Or there's some middle ground where some aspects are allowed but others aren't. Or there's some in-game reason for the group to stick together, and PvP is - disincentivised, one way or another, even though it's not explicitly disallowed. (This last is my favoured approach. If the Jawa engineer thinks he can afford to lose your PC, that suggests that the DM is giving him way too many options. Obi-Wan doesn't hire the Millennium Falcon because it's the best ship going or he particularly likes Han - he does it because it's the only ship that remotely meets his needs.)

But it's really a discussion the group needs to have at some point. Ideally, before character generation, but otherwise, as soon as possible afterwards. Then everyone's on the same page, and you can all take measures appropriately.



This. If you don't want to be in a game with PvP, you need to say so before you start. Decide on the ground rules first, instead of waiting for something to come up.

Sartharina
2014-07-15, 03:09 AM
... I'm trying to follow what happened.

We have Silus complaining about being targeted by a player who's targeted him in the past, because said player put a hit on him this time.

Allegedly, from what I understand, the plan presented was that Jawa was putting in a false bounty to essentially attract Goblin Christmas Bounty Hunter Birthday Presents, targeting Silus because the history between the characters might have made said bounty seem legit (Concerned businessman puts a hit on someone who threatens him?).

... but Jawa actually made it into a ****-move by deliberately sticking another PC on him? And also the swindling.

I'm curious where the party broke the law at, though - was it with this bounty fiasco, or a previous adventure?

Sith_Happens
2014-07-15, 05:23 AM
I'm curious where the party broke the law at, though - was it with this bounty fiasco, or a previous adventure?

The vast bulk of the bounty-hunting industry/community in Star Wars is underground to start with, but it sounds like the issue here is more with internal regulations as to the posting and claiming of bounties being violated.

Silus
2014-07-15, 06:00 AM
The vast bulk of the bounty-hunting industry/community in Star Wars is underground to start with, but it sounds like the issue here is more with internal regulations as to the posting and claiming of bounties being violated.

Aye, there's apparently a limit on the size of an off-the-books bounty bounty hunters are allowed to go after. Little 10-100 credit bounties (Guy skipped out on a court date/owes a guy money, etc) are fine, but apparently nothing past 1000c are allowed unless it goes through the guild first (so the guild can get its cut).