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Were-Sandwich
2007-02-28, 12:54 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

So, are they any good? I quite like some of the Scout ones, paticularly Riposte. The Street Fighter one is paticularly good for Barbarians. I like the Ferocity variant. Because any extra dex is good.

What do you think?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 01:07 PM
ZOMG THE CITYSHAPE WILL LET ME PLAY AN ANANASI IN D&D WOOTSAUCE.

*ahem*

Ferocity seems nifty too. Of course, it makes a Weapon Finesse barbarian feasible, which is a strange mental image.

Riposte is awesome.

Skilled City Dweller is nifty, and usable.

STREETFIGHTER IS ALSO MADE OF AWESOMESAUCE.

And Voice of the City is just nifty.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-28, 01:33 PM
I imagine a Barbarian with all of the substituyion abilities would be quite intriguing to play.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 02:01 PM
Well, let's see. With all the variants listed there, the barbarian would:

1. be able to charge around corners, have extended charge range, extended crit range, and have cleaving charge.

2. be able to run and charge on rooves

3. rage with +s to Str and Dex instead of Str and Con, with sickening instead of fatigue at the end of the rage, and Shifting Stance (stand from prone as swift, +1 Ref saves)

Losing:

1. DR

2. Fast Movement

3. Rage and Indomitable Will.

It'd be a more ninja-like barbarian, which'd be...actually pretty nifty.

silentknight
2007-02-28, 02:07 PM
I would use Ferocity as a barbarian variant even outside of a city setting.
Awesomesauce indeed!

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 02:09 PM
Well, there's two major points to Ferocity: first, that you don't get Indomitable Will and don't get bonuses to will saves when raging. Livable. Second: your survivability depends more on your AC than your HP, since you don't get those bonus HPs from increased Con. But if you're in a mithral chain shirt, +4/+6/+8 Dex is teh rox.

TheOOB
2007-02-28, 02:12 PM
Wow, Riposte is awesome, it makes a scout a deadly combatant, especially in 1-on-1 (a field where rogues have the disadvantage). Plus the fact that they don't rely of greater manyshot is a plus.

Hmm, I see a TWF Riposte scout in my future.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 02:15 PM
Wow, Riposte is awesome, it makes a scout a deadly combatant, especially in 1-on-1 (a field where rogues have the disadvantage). Plus the fact that they don't rely of greater manyshot is a plus.

Hmm, I see a TWF Riposte scout in my future.

Riposte Scout/Duelist seems an intriguing idea.

Orzel
2007-02-28, 02:21 PM
Crowd Crawler is nice. I personally have the ability.

Hidden Stalker is teh broke.

Rival Organization is nice

Streetfighter, Ferocity, and Riposte are awesome

Skilled City-Dweller is sucks <- Lies
The rest is nice too

Morty
2007-02-28, 02:27 PM
Is that just me, or Ferocity is superior to normal rage?

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-28, 02:30 PM
Nah, Ferocity's a little gimped. Losing the bonus to your greatest weakness (mind-affecting spells)? And, for example: what armor are you wearing? Either it doesn't have as much armor bonus as it could normally, or it doesn't let you get the full benefits of your rage-increased Dexterity.
Tough bashers don't really NEED dex that much. Ferocity's... not all that.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 02:34 PM
Is that just me, or Ferocity is superior to normal rage?

It's about even. Sure, you get increased AC from your Dex, but that precludes you wearing heavier armors. Further, you don't get those nice extra HP and boosted Fort save you get from raging, nor do you receive the nice boost to Will saves you get during rage either. You also forego Indomitable Will for the more-martial, less-anti-spellcaster Shifting Stance ability, which is weaker.

Also, it says nothing about Ferocity qualifying for prestige classes as Rage.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-28, 02:38 PM
Ferocity is more Conan-ish, innit?

Morty
2007-02-28, 02:39 PM
Hm. I thought so, but I wanted to be ceratin. Either way, I like it, it gives barbarian some other option than "bash stuff in howling frenzy", especially when combined with streetfighter- which I think is stronger than damage reduction(3 less damage on 13th level isn't very much...).

oriong
2007-02-28, 02:39 PM
Yeah the Whirling Frenzy variant is superior, you get most of the benefits of +4 to Dex with th added plus that it's a Dodge bonus to AC, not a bonus to dex (so it's not limited by armor) and essentially a melee rapid shot.

TheOOB
2007-02-28, 02:41 PM
Riposte Scout/Duelist seems an intriguing idea.

Maybe with a few (3) levels of swashbuckler in there you'd get a pretty powerful int based fighter with a very cool flashy fighting style.

brian c
2007-02-28, 02:43 PM
Well, let's see. With all the variants listed there, the barbarian would:

1. be able to charge around corners, have extended charge range, extended crit range, and have cleaving charge.

2. be able to run and charge on rooves

3. rage with +s to Str and Dex instead of Str and Con, with sickening instead of fatigue at the end of the rage, and Shifting Stance (stand from prone as swift, +1 Ref saves)

Losing:

1. DR

2. Fast Movement

3. Rage and Indomitable Will.

It'd be a more ninja-like barbarian, which'd be...actually pretty nifty.

Well, the stereotypical barbarian definitely isn't a city-dweller, so i think these variants give you an "Urban Barbarian" so to speak. I agree that they're all pretty cool features, but too bad Ferocity doesn't count as rage :(

Orzel
2007-02-28, 02:46 PM
Crowd Crawler+Hidden Stalker

In a crowd

Move, Attack, Move, Hide
Move, Attack, Move, Hide
Move, Attack, Move, Hide
Move, Attack, Move, Hide

Here you go DMs. Challenge your parties.

TheOOB
2007-02-28, 02:47 PM
Well, the stereotypical barbarian definitely isn't a city-dweller, so i think these variants give you an "Urban Barbarian" so to speak. I agree that they're all pretty cool features, but too bad Ferocity doesn't count as rage :(

Thats not a hard house rule to make. Just because it doesn't say something in the book, doesn't mean you can't use it that way in your game.

Morty
2007-02-28, 02:51 PM
Personally I can't see any reason why non-urban barbarian couldn't use Ferocity and Streetfighter, you just have to change the name in streetfighter's case.

Zincorium
2007-02-28, 05:22 PM
Thats not a hard house rule to make. Just because it doesn't say something in the book, doesn't mean you can't use it that way in your game.

There is one benefit to it not counting as rage: Combination with dervish dance, anyone?

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-28, 05:26 PM
Hmm. Add a Swordsage dip for Shadow Blade, and that could be nice.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-28, 05:30 PM
There is one benefit to it not counting as rage: Combination with dervish dance, anyone?

Oh man, the Thri-Kreen Barbarian/Dervish just got so much sweeter.

Person_Man
2007-02-28, 06:07 PM
Druid Wildshape variants: I'm sure this is abusable with enough Monster Manuals. Swordspider comes to mind.

Crowd Walker: Garbage. How often does this come up in a campaign? Maybe once a campaign?

Ferocity: When combined with Half-Orc Paragon or any other non-Barbarian class that grants Rage, this could make Barbarian builds a lot more useful.

Lay Low: Again, when does this ever happen?

Hidden Stalker: This might be useful, depending on what tactics your PC uses. Note that it states that "the presence of other people within 5 feet is considered sufficient cover for her to hide," which implies that you can hide in combat if you're standing next to more than one person.

Iron Constitution: I have never seen Resist Nature's Lure used in a game, so any feat that replaces it, however minor, would probably be an improvement.

Riposte: Since it doesn't require movement, this will get a lot of mileage, especially when combined with Swift Ambusher or Swift Hunter +Karmic Strike.

Rival Organization: Like Urban Rangers, only good if you're playing in a heavily Urban campaign where the DM tells you what your Rival Organization will be.

Roof-Dweller: Again, when does this ever happen?

Skilled City-Dweller: Any time you have the option to gain ranks in Sense Motive and/or Tumble, you should take it.

Stand Fast: Since its an Immediate Action and it replaces the generally useless mount (unless you're making a mount-centered build), this is good. But this variant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=1) is better.

Streetfighter: This would be very useful when combined with a high crit weapon and Improved Crit and/or Psychic Weapon Master. But only if anyone ever went up to Barbarian 7, which they don't.

Urban Companion: You're retarded if you give up your Animal Companion for a smaller weaker Familiar-ish Companion-lite.

Urban Sense: Meh.

Urban Tracker: Only useful if you're in a city a lot. I give all Rangers Urban Tracking for free at 1st level, because I find that it improves plot options, and I don't feel like forcing a PC to waste a feat on it, or give up Track, which is also excellent for more plot alternatives.

Voice of the City: Garbage. Wild Empathy gets a lot of use in low level games (when animals are still challenging), so you'd be foolish to give it up with an ability you might use once that can be replaced by a Comprehend Languages spell.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-28, 07:34 PM
Crowd Walker: Garbage. How often does this come up in a campaign? Maybe once a campaign?Well, presumably, the book is supposed to encourage you to play city-based campaigns. So the alternate ability gives the Ranger or Druid a replacement for an ability that would be completely useless in that campaign.

Were-Sandwich
2007-03-01, 02:20 PM
Am I the only one intrigued by the fact it says Part 1?

Fax Celestis
2007-03-01, 02:44 PM
Am I the only one intrigued by the fact it says Part 1?

Nope. I'm intrigued too.

Were-Sandwich
2007-03-01, 03:03 PM
This article has actually made me want to play a barbarian now. Roof-Stalking melee ninjas ftw.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-01, 03:04 PM
Seriously. Conan-style barbarian. Ferocity for "pantherish grace" and all.