Undoing Diplomancy

[Eaglejarl]

If a Diplomancer has already successfully modified someone, is there a RAW way to undo the effect? The Diplomacy skill only discusses modifying someone with regard to you, not to other people. The situation I have is:

Al modifies Bob's view of Al from Hostile to Friendly,

Charlie later wants to undo that to put Bob back at Hostile toward Al

How can this be done within the confines of RAW?

[Nibbens]

If a Diplomancer has already successfully modified someone, is there a RAW way to undo the effect? The Diplomacy skill only discusses modifying someone with regard to you, not to other people. The situation I have is:

Al modifies Bob's view of Al from Hostile to Friendly,

Charlie later wants to undo that to put Bob back at Hostile toward Al

How can this be done within the confines of RAW?

Wouldn't that just be a diplomacy check -
Charlie: Bob, you're in our group and our group doesn't like Al.
Opposed Diplomacy checks to make Bob view them as friendly
Bob: Oh yeah, I totally forgot.

Worse yet, it never states that the effects of a Diplomacy check is permanent. So Bob could view Al as a friendly just until he's out of sight - no roll required. Besides, we all have had that experience of talking to a really good swindler, only to turn around and immediately realize that we were just screwed.

[MrBright01]

Worse yet, it never states that the effects of a Diplomacy check is permanent.

This. I usually allow a Diplomacy check to stand... until the character who made it, or one of their obvious allies, does something to adjust it. You can make the King friendly, but only until the rogue is caught pick-pocketing a royal guard. Diplomacy is not permanent by RAW as far as I have seen, and I play it that way as DM.

As Nibbens suggested, the alternative is another Diplomacy check to make yourself friendly, then using your friendly status to slander the other person, but that's not RAW, that's roleplay.

One thing I do see, in RAW, are certain spells in Ultimate Magic. Unadulterated Loathing, Curse of Disgust, or especially Malicious Spite. Those bypass the Diplomacy issue by forcing the target to act a certain way. A good, spell focused Bard could smash the Diplomancer quite soundly. Make him a counter-diplomancer who dislikes having his turf stepped on.

Alternatively, if they are befriending EVERYONE, eventually two groups who are opposed but not stupidly violent about it, will compare notes and see them as the two faced bugger he is. A quick knife in the dark, and no more diplomacy.

[BWR]

Besides, we all have had that experience of talking to a really good swindler, only to turn around and immediately realize that we were just screwed.

Wouldn't that be Bluff?

[Eaglejarl]

Ok, great. Thanks everyone.

[Rubik]

Protection From Evil would prevent it, I think. That is, if Diplomacy is considered "mental control."

And being a PC neuters it, of course.

[The Grue]

Protection From Evil would prevent it, I think. That is, if Diplomacy is considered "mental control."

It isn't, so no it wouldn't.

[Vogonjeltz]

If a Diplomancer has already successfully modified someone, is there a RAW way to undo the effect? The Diplomacy skill only discusses modifying someone with regard to you, not to other people. The situation I have is:

Al modifies Bob's view of Al from Hostile to Friendly,

Charlie later wants to undo that to put Bob back at Hostile toward Al

How can this be done within the confines of RAW?

Remember, this is just attitude adjustment. When Al modified Bob's view, he basically is patching things up between them, that is all.

So the standard ways to make someone dislike someone else would be:
1) Reveal something to Bob that makes him dislike Al.
2) Place Al in a situation where he does something that Bob dislikes.
3) Bring up topics they continue to disagree on until the sparks fly.

Useful skills:
Forgery, Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand.

Scenario A:
1) Steal important Mcguffin.
2) Plant Mcguffin on Al.
3) Reveal Mcguffin is missing; Everyone gets searched.
4) Al may try to use Diplomacy to talk his way out of this, you can lay on the hurt by using an opposed Diplomacy check, or possibly a Bluff check.

Scenario B:
1) Disguise yourself as Al.
2) Do something that will anger Bob where witnesses see you.

Scenario C:
1) Forge something incriminating in Al's handwriting, or with his signature (forged of course).
2) Plant it on Al (see scenario A)
OR
3) Leave it where Bob can find it.

[AMFV]

This is a job for Mind Rape!!! Hey, technically it works.

[Coidzor]

Programmed Amnesia should also work in addition to Mind Rudisplorking.