Ways for a paladin to get darkness or shadow effects?

[justiceforall]

Hi playground,

What ways are there for paladins (core base class) to get darkness spells/effects, or failing that, shadowy ones? I'm pretty sure you can't get them on your spell list, so is there any way without multiclassing to get them?

[Jeff the Green]

Be a drow?

[gc25774]

You could be an Paladin for an evil god. Maybe.

[justiceforall]

Be a drow?

I figured that was the most straightforward.

Is there any feats that will do it? Or ACFs? Items?

[AMFV]

Hi playground,

What ways are there for paladins (core base class) to get darkness spells/effects, or failing that, shadowy ones? I'm pretty sure you can't get them on your spell list, so is there any way without multiclassing to get them?

Depending on your DM's reading of the Sword of the Arcane Order, you could potentially take Arcane Disciple from the shadow domain. I think it's not really clear if those count as Arcane Spells. In any case Sword of the Arcane Order will get you some shadow spells in any case since you can prepare wizard ones. Combine that with Battle Blessing and you can use those effects quite quickly.

Edit: Yep, just take SOTA, and then prepare the associated Wizard spells, with Battle Blessing you can have all sorts of fantastic Darkness/shadow spells, and cast them as swift actions.

[hamishspence]

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Paladin knows!" :smallbiggrin:

[avr]

If your paladin is an elf in Eberron the dragonmark of Shadow is an option via feats.

[Averis Vol]

Shadowy diadem is a good option. A couple times per day (AFB at the moment, its in dragon magic I believe) you shed inky black shadows and gain 20% concealment and immunity to energy drain for 10 rounds. Only costs you about 4k too.

[Kantolin]

A... high level, but kind of cool option would be to aim for incarnum.

You can spend a feat to gain the soulmeld 'Shadow Mantle'. By itself, this gives you a bonus on listen checks which could be fairly useful.

You then can spend a feat at level 12 to get open lesser chakra(Shoulders), and bind your Shadow Mantle to your shoulder chakra. This would let you radiate darkness and shadows in a small radius that you can see in (via blindsight!), although while it's active you can't see anything outside of the shadows. Unfortunately, /this/ feat requires you to be level 12 (and have a con of 15 but that's not hard), so it's probably not super useful unless this is a higher level game - but it's very thematic for a darkness unit.

It also boosts your reflex saves by 1, though. :smallsmile:

[Inevitability]

If your paladin is an elf in Eberron the dragonmark of Shadow is an option via feats.

Strictly, I believe half-elves should be able to do that too.

Hm... A dragonborn star elf should have +2 Cha, -2 Dex (not half bad for a paladin) and qualifies for MoS.


Alternatively, Extra Spell could help you out. Or Magical Training for 3 No Lights a day. Then pick Precocious Apprentice for another darkness spell.

[Psyren]

Build a shadow-based cleric (e.g. Shadow and Illusion domains) and then go into Prestige Paladin. Bam, shadow-paladin.

[Pyromancer999]

Strictly, I believe half-elves should be able to do that too.

They cannot. It has been made clear that if you are not of the exact race for the Dragonmark, you cannot take it.


Then pick Precocious Apprentice for another darkness spell.

Paladins can't do this, for two reasons. Firstly, Precocious Apprentice cannot be taken by anyone other than Arcane spellcasters. Secondly, it's a first level only feat, and Paladins cannot cast at first level.

[aleucard]

Custom magic items are always available, but if you want it straight-up, then your best bets are to either use things completely unconnected to class (the dragonmark feats, certain items, etc.) or go for Prestige Paladin like described by the other posters. WotC doesn't really do too much to support a Paladin Batman, sadly, and not just because Paladin isn't so much as within eyesight of Batman's ballpark either.

[Inevitability]

They cannot. It has been made clear that if you are not of the exact race for the Dragonmark, you cannot take it.

Yes, but Half-Elves are counted as elves for all situations where race matters. I think quite some DM's would accept it. Maybe a page number to back up your claim?


Paladins can't do this, for two reasons. Firstly, Precocious Apprentice cannot be taken by anyone other than Arcane spellcasters. Secondly, it's a first level only feat, and Paladins cannot cast at first level.

That's where Magical Training, which I mentioned right before in my post, comes in. It gives you both an arcane caster level and spellcasting at 1st level. You'll need to be either human, strongheart halfling, or using flaws to get both, though.

[AMFV]

Custom magic items are always available, but if you want it straight-up, then your best bets are to either use things completely unconnected to class (the dragonmark feats, certain items, etc.) or go for Prestige Paladin like described by the other posters. WotC doesn't really do too much to support a Paladin Batman, sadly, and not just because Paladin isn't so much as within eyesight of Batman's ballpark either.

I reiterate, Sword of the Arcane Order gets it just fine straight up, and is completely connected to class. Shadow Cloak Paladins (or whatever the ACF is actually called gets some similar stuff as well)

[justiceforall]

I reiterate, Sword of the Arcane Order gets it just fine straight up, and is completely connected to class. Shadow Cloak Paladins (or whatever the ACF is actually called gets some similar stuff as well)

This one?

Shadow Cloak Knight Substitution Levels (CV, web): gnome only, add Hide and Move Silently to class skill list
4th level: Favored Enemy
6th level: Hide in Plain Sight
9th level: One With the Darkness: gain invisibility 1/day

Ew... gnomes!


For those of you proposing Prestige Paladin yes I'm aware of it but don't want it hence I put "core base class" in the OP.

The Chakra thing is interesting, I don't really care what level things work at, just curious if they are possible. What is the feat called?

And as for SotAO - does that require intelligence? Or does it still key off wisdom?

[AMFV]

This one?

Shadow Cloak Knight Substitution Levels (CV, web): gnome only, add Hide and Move Silently to class skill list
4th level: Favored Enemy
6th level: Hide in Plain Sight
9th level: One With the Darkness: gain invisibility 1/day

Ew... gnomes!


For those of you proposing Prestige Paladin yes I'm aware of it but don't want it hence I put "core base class" in the OP.

The Chakra thing is interesting, I don't really care what level things work at, just curious if they are possible. What is the feat called?

And as for SotAO - does that require intelligence? Or does it still key off wisdom?

SotAO is keyed off intelligence. But at that point you might as well focus on just intelligence since your Wisdom keyed spells aren't as good.

[Red Fel]

The Chakra thing is interesting, I don't really care what level things work at, just curious if they are possible. What is the feat called?

It's actually two feats. The first, Shape Soulmeld, allows you to choose any one soulmeld, chosen at the time you take the feat, and thereafter be able to shape it. (The suggestion was Shadow Mantle.) The second, Open Lesser Chakra, enables you to bind a soulmeld to your choice of three chakras (arms, brow, or shoulders), chosen at the time you take the feat. You want shoulders to gain the Shadow Mantle's bound ability; as a bonus, as Kantolin noted, you gain +1 to Reflex saves for choosing shoulders.

Another option is to use the Martial Study/Martial Stance feats from ToB to choose Shadow Hand maneuvers or stances that give you what you want. Specifically, the stance you want is Child of Shadow, which grants concealment when you move at least 10 feet. The maneuvers you want may include Clinging Shadow Strike, Cloak of Deception, Obscuring Shadow Veil, Shadow Blade Technique, Shadow Garrote, or Shadow Jaunt/Stride.

Unfortunately, getting these moves can be fairly feat-intensive, and it's generally considered easier to simply grab levels in Swordsage, or even better to PrC into Ruby Knight Vindicator (which keeps plenty of that sweet Paladin flavor). However, you've expressed a desire to avoid multiclassing, so that's no-go.

[justiceforall]

Thanks everyone - both the SotAO and the soulmeld seem like good possibilities. Even if they don't get rolled into my current character, they've sparked new ideas I can use if (when!) my current character dies.

Also - whoever said batman in response to this thread - batman is an urban ranger, not a paladin :).

[AMFV]

Thanks everyone - both the SotAO and the soulmeld seem like good possibilities. Even if they don't get rolled into my current character, they've sparked new ideas I can use if (when!) my current character dies.

Also - whoever said batman in response to this thread - batman is an urban ranger, not a paladin :).

Batman is a Cleric of the ideal of Vengeance who took levels in Shadowbane Stalker and Sacred Fist.

[justiceforall]

Blasphemy - batman doesn't have magic! He's our paragon of the power of mundanes!

:)

[AMFV]

Blasphemy - batman doesn't have magic! He's our paragon of the power of mundanes!

:)

Well you could use a Factotum too, there's a lot of ways to model Batman, I like the idea of the Cleric of Vengeance because it models his complete dedication.

[justiceforall]

Sacred Fist

Random additional nitpick - he would also lose his powers every time he throws a batarang.

[AMFV]

Random additional nitpick - he would also lose his powers every time he throws a batarang.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicStone.htm

With specially shaped rocks... I mean it's not a perfect solution but what is? And that'd certainly explain how he had so many of them. I mean Batman is just screaming for Spell Thematics and that could allow all kinds of shenanigans along those veins.

[justiceforall]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicStone.htm

With specially shaped rocks... I mean it's not a perfect solution but what is? And that'd certainly explain how he had so many of them. I mean Batman is just screaming for Spell Thematics and that could allow all kinds of shenanigans along those veins.

Cue semantics argument over whether or not a magic stone is a weapon?

[AMFV]

Cue semantics argument over whether or not a magic stone is a weapon?

It would be that time, yes.

[Averis Vol]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicStone.htm

With specially shaped rocks... I mean it's not a perfect solution but what is? And that'd certainly explain how he had so many of them. I mean Batman is just screaming for Spell Thematics and that could allow all kinds of shenanigans along those veins.

maybe use the spell bloodwind and fluff it as somewhat bat shaped blades of energy.