Negating Ability Scores

[torrasque666]

As far as I know, the only Ability score that can't be removed is Charisma. How would I go about removing the ability scores for Str, Dex, Con, Int, and Wis?

I know Int and Con can be accomplished with a Construct.(Duststuffed)
I know that Con be accomplished with an Undead(Necropolitan)
I think that Str can be accomplished with incorporeal(ghost)

How do I get rid of Dex and Wis?


Can you even get rid of all scores other than Cha on a single character? Would the lack of these scores mean that the creature would use Cha as its casting stat(or anything else that requires a non-existant score)?

[Divide by Zero]

Every creature must have Wis and Cha. If you lack one, you lack the other and are an object rather than a creature (even animated objects have them). I think you can lose the other four at once by being a mindless construct incapable of moving, but I'm not really sure how you could accomplish that.

[Jeff the Green]

You can't remove either Wisdom or Charisma without ceasing to be a creature, nor can you remove one and keep the other.

Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score.
...
Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. Anything with no Charisma score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Charisma score also has no Wisdom score.

I don't know how to remove Dexterity, but sessile creatures like shriekers don't have a Dexterity score.

[inertia709]

You can't remove either Wisdom or Charisma without ceasing to be a creature, nor can you remove one and keep the other.


I don't know how to remove Dexterity, but sessile creatures like shriekers don't have a Dexterity score.

The Ghost Brute (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/ghostbrute.shtml) template added to a Shrieker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fungus.htm) would remove the creature's Con score, which reduces it to only having Wis and Cha. I'm not sure if anything exists to remove a Wis score though.

[VoxRationis]

I'm not sure about removing Dex, but if you start at Formian Queen you have no Dex or Strength.
Not good for a PC, obviously.

[Mcdt2]

You can remove a creature's Wisdom score with the Dream Element template, from Dragon #287. Sadly it can't be applied to Undead or Constructs, so I don't know how to get a creature down to just Charisma.

[Crake]

What exactly is the point of this? What are you trying to accomplish?

[torrasque666]

I know that saves and other effects that require a non-existent score default to Charisma. So I was trying to see what I could do to break down some MAD classes so that they can try to run off on less stats.

[ZeroNumerous]

You can remove a creature's Wisdom score with the Dream Element template, from Dragon #287. Sadly it can't be applied to Undead or Constructs, so I don't know how to get a creature down to just Charisma.

Given that a Dream Creature's type doesn't change, then this simply becomes an exercise in applying templates in the right order.

Take a shrieker(CON, WIS, CHA), apply Dream Element(-WIS) and then have it tragically murdered to become a Ghost Brute(-CON). You have a creature with only a charisma score. A creature of pure... ego? without shape, body, intelligence, or senses. Given that Dream Element is a creature made of, well, dreams: You've essentially created a creature that is an idea that somehow became its own individual without being sapient or sentient.

EDIT:
I know that saves and other effects that require a non-existent score default to Charisma. So I was trying to see what I could do to break down some MAD classes so that they can try to run off on less stats.

The problem with this idea is that any template that removes CON, WIS, and STR is gonna be high LA(Ghost / Ghost Brute) or LA --(Dream Element).

[Jeff the Green]

apply Dream Element(-WIS) and then have it tragically murdered to become a Ghost Brute(-CON).

Doesn't work. Once dream element's been applied it has no Wisdom or Charisma score, and is no longer a creature. Nothing in the template says otherwise. Granted, this is because the author understood the rules of the game more poorly tha the Factotum's author, but it doesn't change the fact.

[Mcdt2]

Given that a Dream Creature's type doesn't change, then this simply becomes an exercise in applying templates in the right order.

It does actually; the creature's type changes to elemental (dream), apparently. Altogether a terribly thought out template, really. The article implies it somehow remains a creature despite the lack of a Wisdom score, and it doesn't give any indication of how a creature with Wisdom -- is supposed to act. The best I could figure is a "creature" with null wisdom is totally unaware of everything, as "Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings."

[ZeroNumerous]

It does actually; the creature's type changes to elemental (dream), apparently. Altogether a terribly thought out template, really. The article implies it somehow remains a creature despite the lack of a Wisdom score, and it doesn't give any indication of how a creature with Wisdom -- is supposed to act. The best I could figure is a "creature" with null wisdom is totally unaware of everything, as "Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings."

Then you only need to turn it into a Necromental and figure out a way to remove its Strength.

[Jeff the Green]

It does actually; the creature's type changes to elemental (dream), apparently. Altogether a terribly thought out template, really. The article implies it somehow remains a creature despite the lack of a Wisdom score, and it doesn't give any indication of how a creature with Wisdom -- is supposed to act. The best I could figure is a "creature" with null wisdom is totally unaware of everything, as "Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings."
As I said, it ceases to be a creature—the article doesn't say anything about the general rule and so doesn't trump. It is an object (with no Charisma score either) with the elemental type and doesn't take actions. It's also not a valid base for any template because they all specify "creature".

[...]

The Ghost Brute (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/ghostbrute.shtml) template added to a Shrieker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fungus.htm) would remove the creature's Con score, which reduces it to only having Wis and Cha. I'm not sure if anything exists to remove a Wis score though.

As far as I know, adding an incorporeal undead template to an immobile, non-intelligent creature would be the only way to do it.