a question on lycanthropes

[Ringtail69]

i saw all the types of lycanthropes in pathfinder but i could not see anything that showed the ability bumps that they give to the base creature, is there a table or something out there with that kind of info or do i have to sit down and do some math?

also one of my friends and players asked "can there be a were-tyrannosaurus rex?" so i thought i would ask you guys to see if it is possible or if anyone else had were-dinos in game?

[Serafina]

Lycanthrophy is actually one of the few things that replace your ability scores while you are transformed:

In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.
This does not seem to include the +2 Strength/Constitution bonus listed earlier, so basically it works like this:

If you are a Lycanthrope, you gain +2 Wisdom and -2 Charisma.
When you turn into Hybrid for, your Strength and Constitution are your normal scores+2 OR whatever scores the animal your form is based off has - the same for Dexterity except without the +2. Your size increases to whatever size your animal has - if you are using "your" strength, this can increase it further, if you are using the animals it doesn't. You also gain DR 5/silver, the animals natural armor +2 and all the animals natural attacks and special attacks/qualities.
When you turn into animal form, all of the above applies except with DR 10/silver and your size can potentially decrease (a Wererat doesn't shrink when assuming hybrid form, but does so when assuming animal form), and you gain any movement mode the animal had.


This makes it very easy to make your own types of Lycanthrope - the only restriction is that it has to be a natural animal (but dire animals etc count) within one size category of your humanoid size (so no were blue whales for example).

The latter rules out a Were-Tyrannosaurus for player races (you could have a Ogre Were-Tyrannosaurus though), but you could have a Were-Megaraptor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/megaraptor), a Were-Deinonychus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/deinonychus) or even a Were-Velociraptor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/velociraptor)

A Were-Megaraptor would be damn scary - 60 foot land speed, four natural attacks, Pounce, Strength 23 and +10 natural armor.



Player-Lycanthrophy is very powerful if a character with low physical scores is afflicted - it won't do much for your normal barbarian, while it would give a Wizard powerful melee abilities without further investment.

[Nibbens]

i saw all the types of lycanthropes in pathfinder but i could not see anything that showed the ability bumps that they give to the base creature, is there a table or something out there with that kind of info or do i have to sit down and do some math?

also one of my friends and players asked "can there be a were-tyrannosaurus rex?" so i thought i would ask you guys to see if it is possible or if anyone else had were-dinos in game?

The Bestiary does mention this:

Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.

[meschlum]

Player-Lycanthrophy is very powerful if a character with low physical scores is afflicted - it won't do much for your normal barbarian, while it would give a Wizard powerful melee abilities without further investment.

It's good for Barbarians too - the total attribute boosts are much higher than what can be obtained with ordinary point buy.


And, technically, an Ogre cannot be a Were-Tyrannosaurus, as the critters are Gargantuan, which is two size categories more than a Large Ogre.

However, you could use a Young Tyrannosaurus instead, reducing it to Huge (and reducing Strength, Con, and natural armor for a bonus to Dexterity). That would give the base animal form Strength 28, Dex 17, Con 15 (and +12 natural armor as well as 2d8 base damage from a bite). Add two to Str and Con from lycanthropy, as the physical attributes are superior to the baseline Ogre's.

An alternative would be to use a Giant Ogre (Huge size) to get full Tyrannosaurus form, for Str 32, Dex 13, Con 19 (natural armor +14, bite base damage 4d6) (+2 Str and Con for Lycanthropy). A Giant Ogre has Str 29, Dex 6, Con 19 and Natural Armor +8, so it's less of an upgrade. Note that the Giant Ogre is CR 4, and has almost as good attributes (and the same base damage), where the Tyrannosaurus is CR 9. Templates do strange things.

If you must be human, then you could be a Giant Human (+1 CR, costs a level), for +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con and +2 Natural Armor. That lets you become a Were-Young Tyrannosaurus, though the benefits are debatable (18 base Str +2 racial = 20, +8 Giant = 28, a tie, Dex 10 base -2 size = 8: Tyrannosaurus is better, Con 10 base +4 Giant = 14, another tie). It's only an option at level 8+, costs some levels (+1 CR for Giant, +1 CR for lycanthropy), and mostly gains you some AC (higher Dex and natural armor). For the same CR cost, you could be a Giant Advanced Human, with 32 strength, 12 Dex, 18 Con, and +4 to all your mental attributes. Still lower AC, but everything else is better and you can get the benefits faster.

DR/silver may be worth it, but at level 8+ five damage isn't much (and silver weapons are common).

[Ringtail69]

thanks for answering my questions guys you have further increased my understanding. and i will tell my friend your thoughts about were dinos.