Dragonfire Adept optimization?

[Yael]

I don't see it on the tierlist, I assume that it would be at the bottom of tier 3 maybe? Or at the hollow between T3 & T4. Even so, is this class optimizable, maybe on UMD or its Breath Weapon attack? Maybe stacking auras with other classes (Marshall, Warlock.) Any build you recommend (DFA as the main engine)?

[Rebel7284]

There is a nice handbook out there about getting it to around tier 3. Normally it's stuck in tier 4 with warlock.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Obligatory handbook link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870954/The_New_Dragonfire_Adept_Handbook!).

It's somewhere on the edge of T3 and T4, yeah. I'd argue that it starts as a firm T3, but has a pretty steady decline in relative power. Especially combat power. You get a few decent debuffs-- Entangling Exhalation (a class feature disguised as a feat), Slow Breath, Chilling Fog-- but no real way of dealing damage. There are a fair number of solid invocations, but you've get to pick even fewer than the warlock.

Optimization is basically:

Get as high a Con as possible. A high Cha is also necessary if you want to use debuffy invocations.
Take Entangling Exhalation (RotD)
Take Power Surge (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Power_Surge)so you can use metabreath feats.
Take Endure Exposure so your breath weapon doesn't touch your allies.
Take Humanoid Shape and abuse Alter Self.

[Lans]

For the most part it winds up being a little higher on the tier list than the Warlock, with more options with its breath effects+invocations vs the warlocks invocations, and more skill points.

[Psyren]

One of the main tricks I've seen is to get a breath weapon with a cooldown measured in rounds so you qualify for metabreath feats, then apply them to your DFA breath. This may result in flying DMGs however.

In addition, get a nice fat con score (Mongrelfolk, Warforged or Dwarf are good for this) so your breath is hard to resist or avoid.

[Grod_The_Giant]

One of the main tricks I've seen is to get a breath weapon with a cooldown measured in rounds so you qualify for metabreath feats, then apply them to your DFA breath. This may result in flying DMGs however.
Ehh, as long as you don't abuse the metabreath stacking rules you're probably OK. The DFA breath is so crap at dealing damage that it's hard to begrudge boosting it. The Power Surge feat I linked earlier gives it a recharge time without any shennanigans.

[Psyren]

Ehh, as long as you don't abuse the metabreath stacking rules you're probably OK. The DFA breath is so crap at dealing damage that it's hard to begrudge boosting it. The Power Surge feat I linked earlier gives it a recharge time without any shennanigans.

Indeed, though it is Dragon material so it may not be allowed at every table.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Indeed, though it is Dragon material so it may not be allowed at every table.
Truth. (Still, I bet it works more often than the Dragonborn method, and about as often as just asking the DM to bend the rules a bit...)

[Twilightwyrm]

While metabreath feats help, the DFA is pretty much going to be a crowd-control/debuff class that becomes somewhat ineffective against rangers (evasion and FoM), rogues (evasion and FoM via UMD), and a few other similarly evasiony classes. Against non-evasion intensive foes, it almost doesn't matter how much/little damage you are doing, as they will be too bogged down in your crowd control to do anything but take repeated rounds of damage.. Additionally, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Knowledge skills and UMD mean that you have a number of options for utility and supporting your teammates. While I've yet to play one to higher levels, I'd wager they'd be low T3, if only because they seem to be able to do a few too many things at once for T4.

[Lans]

Aren' some of the breath effects non reflexed based?

[Psyren]

Aren' some of the breath effects non reflexed based?

Yes, though the ones that do tend to make your breath weapon do 0 damage.

[Lans]

Yes, though the ones that do tend to make your breath weapon do 0 damage.


If your in a BFC role that shouldn't be too big of a deal.