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Dunsparce
2014-07-14, 04:28 PM
Hello, I'm playing a high-level lowish-op campaign and I decided to let my Bone Knight take Undead Leadership as his level 18 feat. He's going to make the reanimated zombie of one of our parties members that recently left he group into his cohort. Being a Bone Knight, this cohort is a Karrnathi Zombie. I'm planning on just giving him 13 levels of fighter(I know it's a terrible class), and I want two ideas for build

1) One using nothing but the usual bonus feats

2) One using ACFs instead of just bonus feats

I'd fly them both by my DM for approval(he already approved my concept so far)

I know there are better multiclass/prestege options that are out-right better in every way, but I'd rather not mess with those.

Urpriest
2014-07-14, 04:32 PM
Hello, I'm playing a high-level lowish-op campaign and I decided to let my Bone Knight take Undead Leadership as his level 18 feat. He's going to make the reanimated zombie of one of our parties members that recently left he group into his cohort. Being a Bone Knight, this cohort is a Karrnathi Zombie. I'm planning on just giving him 13 levels of fighter(I know it's a terrible class), and I want two ideas for build

1) One using nothing but the usual bonus feats

2) One using ACFs instead of just bonus feats

I'd fly them both by my DM for approval(he already approved my concept so far)

I know there are better multiclass/prestege options that are out-right better in every way, but I'd rather not mess with those.

Karrnathi Zombies aren't on the Undead Leadership table and they have LA --. How are you getting one with Undead Leadership?

Dunsparce
2014-07-14, 04:37 PM
Karrnathi Zombies aren't on the Undead Leadership table and they have LA --. How are you getting one with Undead Leadership?

DM Fiat more or less

Urpriest
2014-07-14, 04:52 PM
DM Fiat more or less

Ah ok.

If you're set on Fighter, you need a build that uses those feats to do something interesting. Jack B Quick (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6944.0) and the Gatling Chain Gun Tripper (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6921.0) are the gold standard there.

With ACFs, you've got the option of Dungeoncrasher, though you won't be able to get as much out of it as a Large character or Goliath with Knockback would. I wouldn't go for Zhentarim and Intimidate optimization because your Cha is so massively penalized.

Dunsparce
2014-07-14, 04:56 PM
Well are there any base classes that don't mind his overall meh mental stats, no con, STR being the only stat with over a +0 bonus, and 3 racial hitdie?

Urpriest
2014-07-14, 05:04 PM
Well are there any base classes that don't mind his overall meh mental stats, no con, STR being the only stat with over a +1 bonus, and 3 racial hitdie?

The mental stats (besides Cha) aren't that meh, they're human average, so once you've applied the elite array you're in about the same place as a human cohort. (Incidentally, this is an important point that you may have forgotten: as an NPC with a PC class, your Karrnathi Zombie cohort gets to use the elite array, they aren't stuck with the base 10s and 11s.)

That said, if you're willing to be flexible with classes then you could make a fine Warblade. You could probably go for any melee class really, unless it was Cha-focused or casting-based (so yeah, no Paladins or Bards, and probably no Gishes).

I just noticed you did say low-ish op in your OP, though. That raises the question, precisely where are we aiming? What sorts of things do you do as an 18th level cleric, what sorts of capabilities do the rest of your party have?

Dunsparce
2014-07-14, 05:12 PM
The mental stats (besides Cha) aren't that meh, they're human average, so once you've applied the elite array you're in about the same place as a human cohort. (Incidentally, this is an important point that you may have forgotten: as an NPC with a PC class, your Karrnathi Zombie cohort gets to use the elite array, they aren't stuck with the base 10s and 11s.)

That said, if you're willing to be flexible with classes then you could make a fine Warblade. You could probably go for any melee class really, unless it was Cha-focused or casting-based (so yeah, no Paladins or Bards, and probably no Gishes).

I just noticed you did say low-ish op in your OP, though. That raises the question, precisely where are we aiming? What sorts of things do you do as an 18th level cleric, what sorts of capabilities do the rest of your party have?

I guess low-op isn't 100% true, but we're not winning any optimization contests. I'm a Feral Human Fallen Paladin 10/Bone Knight 7. My party members are a level 17 human cleric of nerull, a level 13 half-fiend large-sized gnoll barbarian(with like 47 STR), a level 15 wizard/level 2 archmage that converts spells to sonic damage and shapes things. Mine may sound like the worst by far but he keeps toe-to-toe with the rest of the party by havingc crazy good stats

Urpriest
2014-07-14, 05:47 PM
I guess low-op isn't 100% true, but we're not winning any optimization contests. I'm a Feral Human Fallen Paladin 10/Bone Knight 7. My party members are a level 17 human cleric of nerull, a level 13 half-fiend large-sized gnoll barbarian(with like 47 STR), a level 15 wizard/level 2 archmage that converts spells to sonic damage and shapes things. Mine may sound like the worst by far but he keeps toe-to-toe with the rest of the party by havingc crazy good stats

Hmm ok. In that case, the trickiest bit here is actually picking a build that's interesting, but won't overshadow you.

Since this guy is supposed to be a reanimated version of a past player, what was that player playing? What sort of theme are we going for? Sort of a soldier-type? Any preferred weapons?

Dunsparce
2014-07-14, 05:56 PM
He was a Rogue in life, that was based around UMD and crit-fishing. Didn't last very long due to OOC drama that caused him to leave. Used daggers mostly.

Urpriest
2014-07-14, 07:19 PM
He was a Rogue in life, that was based around UMD and crit-fishing. Didn't last very long due to OOC drama that caused him to leave. Used daggers mostly.

Hmm...any reason not to make the new character a crit-fisher then? Rogue isn't actually that great for a crit-focused character since sneak attack doesn't double on a crit, but a Warblade with the Blood in the Water stance, two levels in Bloodclaw Master, and possibly the Robilar's Gambit and/or Stormguard Warrior feats if you can make that work. Might be a bit strong for the party, but low ability scores, level, and wealth should even things out.

Alternatively, if you don't want the character to overshadow anyone you could focus more on stealth/scouting/utility, using Rogue or Factotum levels.

Honestly, if I was doing this character, I'd just make it have the previous player's build with the level cut down to suit. I get that you want to optimize it some, but it just seems odd for the build to change dramatically post-animation.