Finishing off this gish build

[keeper2161]

Race: naenhoon illumian
Template: necropolitan at level 3

Class: DN8/ adjurant Champion 4

take three flaws: pathetic (-2 to an attribute, con in my case cause i plan to go undead), meager fortitude (-3 fort), Vulnerable (-1 AC)

1st: extend spell, quicken spell, Magical Training, Versatile Spellcaster

3rd: smithing spell

6th: persistent spell

9th: Arcane Disciple (pride domain)

12th: Rapid Metamagic

This build i can have a full BAB, full caster level, and access to any wizard spells. With a item that increase the number of my rebuke attempts I can 1/day or 2/day use quicken spell and I won't have to use a spell slot four levels higher. I can have a full BAB because of diving power. I can have wizard spells because of magical training and versatile spellcaster combo. Everything has been approved by my dm and yes he researched it before he said yes. I can circumvent the whole dmm persistent debate by being a naenhoon illumian.

Some ground rules:
#1. I don't care what build you think is better
#2. I am not changing anything in my build
#3. I need a class or classes to finish off this build to 20, classes that compliment this build.
#4. I really don't care what gish build you think is better, this isn't a power house build I'm not trying to over power the dm
#5. I would like a full caster so when i hit 18 i have access to 9th level spells but as long as i get 9th level by 20 ill be happy
#6. No evil classes
#7. No good classes
#8. This is a lawful neutral build

I think i covered everything. I know I set some limitations but I am looking for very specific things. I am willing to change around the DN 8/ AC 4 aka DN 6/ AC4/ DN 2 or any combination of the like. The reason is for the DN feature advanced learning. I would like to get the feat lifesense at some point but only if i have a feat to spare. I might just finish off with continuing into DN but I want this forums opinion. I apologize if I sound hard or an *******. I have seen to many times someone wanting to make something and then lots of people argue and bicker about what build is better and the persons original request goes answered or they simply get confused by everyone trying argue that their build is the stronger one. And again I know this request is a hard order to fill but there is a reason I posted this on this forum and not another. You guys seem to be more knowledgeable then other forums,

Link for those who don't know what lifesense is
http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/lifesense--1764/

[WeaselGuy]

Questions: Where do you get the feat Combat Casting for Abjurant Champion?

[Snowbluff]

Since someone already put up the Magical Training/Versatile Spellcaster combo I would suggest in a higher OP build (seriously, why bother with Dread Necro?), I'm going to say you need Human Heritage. Then you don't count as undead, but you do for all of the things you want to count as undead for.

[WeaselGuy]

Beyond that, Fighter 1 then Eldritch Knight 7 will get you CL18, and BAB 17...

I would almost suggest DN8/Ftr1/AbjCh4/EK7, using that fighter level to get Combat Casting to qualify for AbjCh, and the martial weapon proficiency for EK. A little underwhelming, but there you go.

[keeper2161]

I realized where the combat casting went. I used this build and worked off of it and never realized that combat casting was needed.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Melee_Specialized_Dread_Necromancer_%283.5e_Optimi zed_Character_Build%29

The build isn't supposed to be world shattering, plus with the magical training and versatile spellcasting i have the spellcasting side of the build covered. Why do I need Human Heritage the only feats that I need to be human for are the 1st level ones and illumian is human for the sake of feats. And for the sake of curiosity what do you mean by underwhelming the persistent trick with the naenhoon illumian and the magical training versatile spellcasting covers every base i can think of.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You cannot use Naenhoon with Quicken Spell, as you have to spend a Swift Action to activate Naenhoon. You only get one Swift Action per round, and a Quickened spell also takes a Swift Action (Rules Compendium p125). Just get a Circlet of Rapid Casting in MIC and quicken three spells of up to 2nd level each day.

Unless you group has implemented a house rule, you can only gain two extra feats from flaws. Two flaws gives you two feats, three flaws only give you two feats, ten flaws still only give you two feats. There are more and better flaws here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30), consider taking Insomniac since there will be no drawback for an undead character. You could get Cold Blooded and add the spell Haze of Smoldering Stone to your spellbook to permanently gain Fire Resistance 3 and have no drawback from that one as well.

As a Necropolitan, you can have moderate taint described in Heroes of Horror Chapter 4 with no drawbacks, which will give you one extra feat that doesn't have to be taken at 1st level. You can actually take flaws at a higher level than 1st, as long as they're taken when creating the character (i.e. if you're making a character at a level higher than 1st). With that I would strongly recommend a single level of Tainted Scholar from that same book, to use your (potentially infinite) taint score as your spellcasting stat for DCs and bonus spells. None of that has any alignment implications or requirements.

[keeper2161]

page 91 unearthed arcana "A player may select up to two flaws when creating a character. After 1st level, a character cannot take on additional flaws unless the DM specifically allows it". I have the book races of destiny and you are right naenhoon is a swift action.

[Vaz]

Was going to help, but decided against it thanks to your attitude. I felt compelled to state this.

Good day.

[keeper2161]

It wasn't an attitude I was highlighting the part the part I wanted. If I could highlight in yellow I would.

[keeper2161]

I apologize if it made me seem like I had an attitude.

[keeper2161]

As I read the rule I see what you mean but my dm won't really care about the 1st level limit, the flaws hurt so it's a nice trade off.

[keeper2161]

And vas you kind of ruined of my day now, I don't want you thinking I'm an ass. I should have probably underlined it.

[Aegis013]

I'm guessing Smiting Spell is being used to get around fixed range limitation of Persistent Spell? I guess it's considered better than Reach and Ocular in this situation since it has one less spell level adjustment.

Might I suggest, if ToB is available at your table, DN 8/ABJ Champ 4/Swordsage 1/Jade Pheonix Mage 7? Or if you can qualify by taking the ToB items from page 150, you could do DN 8/Abjurant Champ 4/Jade Pheonix Mage 8, which would net you an IL of 14 getting you 7th level maneuvers also, which could be interesting to a Gish.

You would lose 3 or 2 caster levels respectively, but, you'll still get 9th level spells at 20 or 19 respectively. Just an interesting option, though considering JPM's weak maneuver school selection, probably not a power upgrade.



Was going to help, but decided against it thanks to your attitude. I felt compelled to state this.

Good day.

Your post isn't constructive. If you want an attitude adjustment from someone saying "Your attitude is bad. Fix it." doesn't help anybody's cause. You need to be specific about what you don't like and what you would like to see changed. Saying "I don't like that you are dismissive of alternative build suggestions" or similar is more helpful, although still, I don't really see how this guy's attitude has bothered you so.

[keeper2161]

No smithing spell is so i can use touch spells through my weapon.

[Aegis013]

Spellsword 4 also gives that ability (only 3/day except not limited to touch spells and can speed up spells with long casting time), but without the level adjustment, and it would advance Dread Necromancer casting by 2.
Only problem is the proficiency requirement, which could be met by a dip into Fighter or Psychic Warrior.

I don't know if that's useful to you, really, since it would come online quite a bit later.

[keeper2161]

With smithing spell allows me to use it as many times a day as I want without the level dip. I do like weasalguy's DN8/Ftr1/AbjCh4/EK7. The one spell level for smithing spell isn't a big issue. When I use the touch spell through weapon it would pre battle buff or say if i kill something but they are too far away for me too make a full-round attack I could cast a touch spell on my weapon then walk over to them and next round of a full attack with the first attack to hit would be my weapon damage and the spell. Which if i had say harm or Shivering Touch would put either on par or greater then the melee classes in the party. With the persistent trick i could presist wraithstrike and (with enough rebukes) I could also persist greater blink and I could do both at level 12 or level 13 with weasalguy's build. With all that I have the melee side covered, with magical training and Versatile spellcaster they spell casting side would be covered. I could also use the feats I would get at 15 and 18 to get something to augment my spellcasting. My spell casting wouldn't be as strong as pure spellcasting builds but it would help enough to get me close to those pure spellcasters and shove my greatsword through their gut. Anyone see anything wrong with what i just wrote, I don't want any flaws in this build so I just want to double check everything.