Unarmed gish build

[keeper2161]

So I want to make a unarmed gish build. I love gishs. They are my favorite type of class. Now I have access to all the books. I don't need the build to break the game. I don't need to have a full caster either. While he doesn't need to be all power if you want to present a build that is I'll still look yet if nothing else then curiosity. I want him to be neutral maybe good but not evil. The dm is pretty open so some cheese is allowed but not to much. The other players aren't that well versed in the forums and building classes. So really even a medium optimized build will stand out. They really are starting out only been playing d&d for about a year or less. I have been watching d&d since I was 5 and playing off and on since I was 10 (I'm 20). I only recently started to optimize my builds. So go nuts but please be civil. State your build and your reasons why. I don't mind different types of unarmed gish, the more the better. That way I can look at different styles of play of the same idea. And I thank you all ahead of time for taking the time to create these builds. :smallsmile:

[(Un)Inspired]

Wizard 10/ rainbow servant 10 is a super simple build that gets full casting, full bab and a load of bonus fighter feats.

It also it suuuuuuper simple and requires zero cheese. Just remember text trumps table.

With those bonus feats you can take improved unarmed strike and SUS as well as a bunch of ToB maneuvers.

[WeaselGuy]

Well, basically, your Dread Necro Gish can work here too, just need a different feat selection. I would suggest going DN8/Pal2/AbjCh4/EK6, getting Improved Unarmed Strike at some point. This has synergy with your Paladin's (of whichever flavor you desire) charisma (needed for DN casting) to benefit your saving throws. If you want something other than Human, I recommend Lesser Aasimar, +2 Wis and +2 Cha, along with an SLA and other stuff, difference between regular Aasimar and Lesser is the regular is a native outsider with a +1 LA and the lesser is a planetouched humanoid with no LA.

If you don't like the regular LG paladin, and don't want to be evil, then you can use UA's CG Paladin of Freedom.

[Emperor Tippy]

Rogue 1/ Factotum 1/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/ Factotum 7/ Swashbuckler 3/ X 6

If you want more of a martial focus then make X Warblade while if you want more of a caster focus then make it Psion.

For your race you want Gray Elf and for feats you want Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Kung Fu Genius, and Craven along with all of the Font of Inspiration that you can cram in.

For ability scores you want to max Int with Dex and then Strength.

From Martial Monk you want Weapon Supremacy and any other Fighter Bonus feat.

Basic premise is that you get within melee range of your enemy by using Cunning Surge for a standard action and then use Decisive Strike as a full round action before spending the rest of your Inspiration Points on Cunning Surge for a number of double damage attacks on the target. Spend two IP for Int to attack and damage on top of the Int to damage from Swashbuckler 3.

Your spells (and possibly powers) provide a fair bit of versatility and you can use Psychic Chiguery to end up with all spells and powers of 3rd level or lower on your list of powers known but even without that you are quite gishy.

[keeper2161]

interesting I never thought of using the DN gish build to be unarmed. Could you lay it out like I have my DN gish build please, that why I can see everything and understand it better. Thank you. Anyone else have unarmed builds?

[(Un)Inspired]

Illumian ardent 10/ chameleon 10

If you're not afraid of Illumian cheese then you can have 9th level arcane spells, divine spells and psionic powers and full bab. Again, you can have as many fighter bonus feats as you want with this build.

[keeper2161]

I like the Illumian. Can you expand the build to include feats and what kind Illumian. The naenhoon Illumian or the other popular one that starts with an a.

[(Un)Inspired]

I like the Illumian. Can you expand the build to include feats and what kind Illumian. The naenhoon Illumian or the other popular one that starts with an a.

You take 5 levels of ardent then 10 of chameleon then 5 more of ardent. Take the feats practiced spellcaster, practiced manifester and overchannel and you have an ml of 21 this nets you 9th level powers easy.

For the chameleon I'll quote from the chameleon handbook:

"Planar TouchstonePlH: Your first stop to higher level casting is The Fortress of Disciplined Enlightenment on the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus. Link yourself there and you gain the granted power of any domain. But what you are after is the higher power, 3 times 1/day you can cast a spell from that domain as if you were a cleric of you level. This qualifies you to take...
Extra SlotCAr: Now that you can cast spells higher than 6th level you can gain an extra slot equal to one level lower than your maximum. You will need to take this a couple times if you want 7th and 8th level casting. Note that this effects both your arcane and divine casting and also you get bonus spells based off your Intelligence/Wisdom.
Improved Sigil (Krau)RoD: While this feat is not necessary it does let you get the spell levels at the same time as a normal caster would. A couple of things to note the spells need to have a verbal component and you can only get to 8th level casting using this as the feat specifies as heighten spell and heighten is limited to 9th level spells. Note that Sanctum SpellCAr cannot achieve this because due to the wording of Planar TouchstonePlH metamagic cannot be applied (there is no actual preparation involved) and Versatile SpellcasterRotD requires actual spell slots."

Now just cast heroics or craft contingent heroics for bonus feats.

[keeper2161]

alright thanks. Anyone else have a build?

[keeper2161]

I do have to say I love this site so much. It's just so epic that it's on it's own scale.:smile:

[WeaselGuy]

interesting I never thought of using the DN gish build to be unarmed. Could you lay it out like I have my DN gish build please, that why I can see everything and understand it better. Thank you. Anyone else have unarmed builds?

Well, I mean, if you go something like this (I forgot how to do a table, so bear with me)...
Level - Class - BAB - F/R/W - CL - Features - Feats
1 - Dread Necro - 0 - 0/0/2 - 1 - Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead - Unarmed Strike
2 - Dread Necro - 1 - 0/0/3 - 2 - Lich Body DR 2
3 - Dread Necro - 1 - 1/1/3 - 3 - Negative Energy Burst 1/day - Versatile Unarmed Strike
4 - Dread Necro - 2 - 1/1/4 - 4 - Advanced Learning, Mental Bastion +2
5 - Dread Necro - 2 - 1/1/4 - 5 - Fear Aura
6 - Dread Necro - 3 - 2/2/5 - 6 - Scabrous Touch 1/day - Superior Unarmed Strike
7 - Dread Necro - 3 - 2/2/5 - 7 - Lich Body DR 4, Summon Familiar
8 - Dread Necro - 4 - 2/2/6 - 8 - Advanced Learning, Negative Energy Burst 2/day, Undead Mastery
9 - Pal of Frdm - 5 - 4/2/6 - 8 - Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil - Combat Casting
10 - Pal of Frdm - 6 - 5/2/6 - 8 - Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
11 - Spellsword - 7 - 7/2/8 - 9 - Ignore Spell Failure 10%
12 - Abj Champ - 8 - 7/2/10 - 10 - Abjurant Armor, Extend Abjuration - Snap Kick
13 - Abj Champ - 9 - 7/2/11 - 11 - Swift Abjuration
14 - Abj Champ - 10 - 8/3/11 - 12
15 - Abj Champ - 11 - 8/3/12 - 13 - Arcane Boost - Arcane Strike
16 - Eldr Knight - 12 - 10/3/12 - 13 - Bonus Feat - Stunning Fist
17 - Eldr Knight - 13 - 11/3/12 - 14 - Caster Progression
18 - Eldr Knight - 14 - 11/4/13 - 15 - Caster Progression - Fists of Iron
19 - Eldr Knight - 15 - 12/4/13 - 16 - Caster Progression
20 - Eldr Knight - 16 - 12/4/13 - 17 - Caster Progression

[keeper2161]

With the feat battle caster the build wouldn't need the dip into spellsword.

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/battle-caster--183/

The DN can cast in light armor normally with this feat he can cast in medium aka mithral fullplate. He could take a flaw and get it.

[DarkSonic1337]

Why would he waste a feat when Spellsword is practically free?

Seriously spellsword 1 is one of the best filler levels a gish can take! And in this build it's literally only competing with another level of Eldritch Knight (no contest really).

[gorfnab]

Too bad you said evil is not an option.
Duskblade 3/ Monk 2/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sacred Fist 10/ Enlightened Fist 3 - called the Sacrilegious Fist this build nets you 9th level spells, 18 BAB, and two ways to channel spells into melee attacks

A good alignment gish build.
Warforged Monk 2/ Druid 3/ Landforged Walker 5/ Sacred Fist 10 - if you follow the text-trumps-table rule on Sacred Fist caster level advancement, this build will net 9th level spells and 16 BAB. Called the Salad Bar Monk this build will let you turn into a Treant or Tendriculous and pound away with unarmed attacks and spells.

[A_S]

In case you're looking for something sneaky, a build I've had lying around for a while:


Human

Abilities (28 point buy):
Str: 15
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

1 - Monk 1 - Able Learner, Point Blank Shot
2 - Sorcerer 1
3 - Sorcerer 2 - Combat Casting
4 - Fighter 1 - Str 16
5 - Sorcerer 3
6 - Enlightened Fist 1 - Craven
7 - Enlightened Fist 2
8 - Enlightened Fist 3 - Cha 15
9 - Enlightened Fist 4 - Ascetic Mage
10 - Spellwarp Sniper 1
11 - Spellwarp Sniper 2
12 - Spellwarp Sniper 3 - Arcane Strike, Cha 16
13 - Spellwarp Sniper 4
14 - Enlightened Fist 5
15 - Enlightened Fist 6 - Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
16 - Enlightened Fist 7 - Cha 17
17 - Unseen Seer 1
18 - Unseen Seer 2 - Snap Kick
19 - Unseen Seer 3
20 - Unseen Seer 4 - Cha 18

ACF's: Sneak Attack Fighter, Thug

8th level Sorcerer spells. Transform any AoE spell into a ray via Spellwarp (removing its saving throw in the process), then channel that ray into your unarmed attack routine with Hold Ray, and get Sneak Attack/Sudden Raystrike bonus damage on it. Plus tasty Cha SAD with Monk abilities.

[keeper2161]

Thank you for everyone's contribution. I will actually present this to my group so that if they want an unarmed gish they can use these.

[Larkas]

Monk 1/ Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 10/ Cleric +4 is an easy one. Nets you +17 BAB and 17th level cleric casting.

Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 18 with Tashalatora is a classic. Something like Monk 2/ Ardent 8/ Slayer 10 nets you +17 BAB and 17th level ardent manifesting.

Arcane gish builds are a dime a dozen, so just find the one you like the most, grab Improved Unarmed Strike and go to town.

[Piggy Knowles]

You take 5 levels of ardent then 10 of chameleon then 5 more of ardent. Take the feats practiced spellcaster, practiced manifester and overchannel and you have an ml of 21 this nets you 9th level powers easy.


This... doesn't actually work.

1. Practiced Spellcaster does NOT increase manifester level. Transparency is very explicit about what it does and does not impact, and feats are not one of them:


Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

So, transparency doesn't make feats that boost caster level instead boost manifester level. (Items, however, ARE covered - so you can still get lots of ML boosts using CL-boosting items. You just can't do it by taking Practiced Spellcaster.)

2. Overchannel does not boost your ML in a way that allows you to jump ahead with ardent manifesting.


At each additional level, an ardent learns one new power from her available mantles. She must be able to manifest the new power at the level at which she learns it, however.


While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage.

Ardent requires you to be able to manifest the power in question when you learn a new power. However, Overchannel does not increase your ML in a way that allows you to manifest higher level powers. Instead, it allows you to temporarily increase your ML for a power that you are already capable of manifesting.

So, the above build would only be able to learn 7th-level powers, not 9th-level. You would need to pick up at least +3 ML from items or other sources in order to learn 9th-level powers. Still doable, but not in the way you described.

[WhamBamSam]

This... doesn't actually work.

1. Practiced Spellcaster does NOT increase manifester level. Transparency is very explicit about what it does and does not impact, and feats are not one of them:I assume they're using the Magic Mantle, which lets them treat magic and psionics as identical. It was probably intended to reassert transparency in games where it had been removed, but that is not what was written. Identical means identical. So double dipping Practiced Manifester/Practiced Spellcaster does work.

I agree with you about Overchannel though, since you can't start overchanneling until you start manifesting the power, so even if a 5th level Ardent knew a 4th level power somehow, he couldn't start manifesting it. He therefore cannot learn powers at a ML he could only reach by overchanneling.

[Vaz]

Uninspired, your ardent build doesn't work. You cannot double up Practised Manifester on the same class, neither does overchannel boost your powers for choosing powers. (You only gain the ML boost when you actually manifest the power - but without the manifester level boost in the first place, you cannot choose the power to be learned in the first place.

[Dunditschia]

Wizard 10/ rainbow servant 10 is a super simple build that gets full casting, full bab and a load of bonus fighter feats.

It also it suuuuuuper simple and requires zero cheese. Just remember text trumps table.

With those bonus feats you can take improved unarmed strike and SUS as well as a bunch of ToB maneuvers.


How does that work? I get that rainbow servant actually has full casting if you follow the text, but that still leaves you with 1/2 BAB, and I don't see where the fighter bonus feats come in. This build wouldn't even have proficiency with any martial weapons unless you use your sparse feats to get them. You also only have d4 hit dies and no armor. Still powerful like any wizard, but not a gish.

[Piggy Knowles]

How does that work? I get that rainbow servant actually has full casting if you follow the text, but that still leaves you with 1/2 BAB, and I don't see where the fighter bonus feats come in. This build wouldn't even have proficiency with any martial weapons unless you use your sparse feats to get them. You also only have d4 hit dies and no armor. Still powerful like any wizard, but not a gish.

I'm assuming that Divine Power is the answer to the full BAB conundrum.

[(Un)Inspired]

How does that work? I get that rainbow servant actually has full casting if you follow the text, but that still leaves you with 1/2 BAB, and I don't see where the fighter bonus feats come in. This build wouldn't even have proficiency with any martial weapons unless you use your sparse feats to get them. You also only have d4 hit dies and no armor. Still powerful like any wizard, but not a gish.

DIvine power gives you full bab. Heroics gives you as many fighter feats as you want including any proficiencies you may want.

Hp is kind of a non issue for a well played caster but if you want to play make believe take there are both wizard and cleric spells that give you temporary hit points. More importantly however, you can generate ridiculous miss chances and high ac using spells and you can have contingencies set to get you out of any attack that targets you so getting hurt isn't really on the menu.

I was under the impression that the requirements for a character to be a gish were at least 16 bab and 9th level arcane spells (Sometimes divine or psionic powers will substitute here). anything less is just a marshal character that can do a little self buffing or a caster who has a better chance landing his ranged touch attacks.

EDIT: also remember that the only weapon proficiency this build wants is Unarmed strike as per the OP's request.

[Rubik]

Uninspired, your ardent build doesn't work. You cannot double up Practised Manifester on the same class.You can, however, use Practiced Manifester on both a base class and a PrC (such as taking it once for each class on an ardent 10/metamind 10).


I was under the impression that the requirements for a character to be a gish were at least 16 bab and 9th level arcane spells (Sometimes divine or psionic powers will substitute here). anything less is just a marshal character that can do a little self buffing or a caster who has a better chance landing his ranged touch attacks.Those aren't explicit requirements -- all a gish needs is to fight physically and use spells (or other forms of magic) in order to do so.

Most people consider high BAB and high level spells to be a requirement, but the psychic warrior does just fine with medium BAB and 6th level powers (max). In fact, it's the pinnacle of T3, and is widely considered the most powerful class in that tier for a reason. It's perfectly capable of hanging out with T1 and T2 classes and carving out a niche for itself with just a bit of optimization, because it's a VERY potent class, making up for its weaknesses with some very good powers.

[Urpriest]

Is there a reason nobody has listed the standard Wu Jen unarmed gish?

Monk 1/Wu Jen 4/Enlightened Fist 10/Abjurant Champion 5

Use Giant Size to kick ass on a large scale, Body Outside of Body to make it so everyone is kung fu fighting, with feats like Kung Fu Genius and Carmendine Monk to give Int to AC. Replace some of the Enlightened Fist levels with Archmage if you want to give your clones the spell-like ability to create more clones, leading to an exponential army of martial artists.

[(Un)Inspired]

Uninspired, your ardent build doesn't work. You cannot double up Practised Manifester on the same class, neither does overchannel boost your powers for choosing powers. (You only gain the ML boost when you actually manifest the power - but without the manifester level boost in the first place, you cannot choose the power to be learned in the first place.

you take both practiced manifester and practiced spellcaster they can both apply to ardent with the magic mantle. thats already enough for 9th level powers