Gunpowder?!?

[Jacob_Gallagher]

I was just thinking, Parson is pretty smart. And Gobwin Knob is built over a volcano. Therefore, all the materials for making gunpowder are there, and Parson could possibly equip troops with black powder weaponry. Any thoughts?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Firearms would take far, far too long to develop and manufacture. The raw materials are there, but none of the production infrastrcture. Besides, Parson probably doesn't know enough about guns to design one from scratch; if he let Gobwin Knob's engineers in on the basic principles, they might, given time, come up with a design.

Now, primitive explosives, maybe. If nothing else, they'd make an easy way to collapse the tunnels on the invaders.

Also, sulfur comes from volcanos, but where are you getting the nitrates? Bats?

[Strengfellow]

Im quite sure Dirtamancer Sisemore could distill nitrates quite easily, then it's just a question of mixing and making bombs to be lobbed out by catapult, or loading up croaked bods like skaven warp fire throwers.

[Tokiko Mima]

Can we skip to the part where Parson has his hand cut off and replaced with a chainsaw already? That's the part with the best lines, anyway. :p

[Nerd-o-rama]

Im quite sure Dirtamancer Sisemore could distill nitrates quite easily
Forgot about him. Yep, they've got the raw materials.

then it's just a question of mixing and making bombs to be lobbed out by catapult, or loading up croaked bods like skaven warp fire throwers.
I'm not familiar with...Warhammer? But if you just suggested uncroaked "suicide" bombers, I'm on board!

[Midnight Lurker]

You need sulfur, the right sort of charcoal, and *seriously* distilled nitrates -- that last is the only real bottleneck. China had gunpowder before anyone else, but it was crappy gunpowder that wasn't really much good for anything but fireworks because they didn't refine the stuff enough; it was an Arabian alchemist who figured it out in the 1300s.

Granted, with magic it may well be possible to refine saltpeter right quick.

We don't really know enough yet about Erfworld's offensive wizardry to say whether even primitive black powder would make a meaningful contribution to the fight, though.

...and where are you going to get decent wood charcoal on the slopes of an unforested volcano?

[Silverlocke980]

...and where are you going to get decent wood charcoal on the slopes of an unforested volcano?

I'll only state that you have an awesomely well-written post before moving on. Kudos, Lurker. :smallsmile:

On a side note and involving the direct quote above, you might actually stand a chance of getting decent wood charcoal if there was a forest there before, and the volcano destroyed it with a blast.

Buried under the ground, the charred remnants might make pretty good charcoal when dried out.

Chances are pretty low, though.

[Rocheforte]

Also, sulfur comes from volcanos, but where are you getting the nitrates? Bats?
Nitrates also can be gotten from pigeon boop.

If only there were a supply of pigeons handy....

[tomaO2]

Ah, gunpower. The first and best refuge of all technically minded modern people flung into medieval times. I would move to see this happen. Especially since Parson will still be seriously outnumbered even if he wins this battle. He'll need every edge he can get. It's always fun to see the dynamic when saltpeter is introduced into an unsuspecting world. Doing it will alsho show us readers now to manage it as well. You know... Just in case we get flung back in time or something too. :P



Authors? Any word on if you are considering it?

[Midnight Lurker]

I'll only state that you have an awesomely well-written post before moving on. Kudos, Lurker. :smallsmile:

Thanks. :smallbiggrin: Some years back I was in a D&D 3.5 game in which we wound up briefly trapped on modern Earth, and my character was a mystic theurge of the god of Knowledge... so of course he made a point of buying and bringing back as many books on physics, technology, history, et cetera as he could. I felt it necessary to do some real-world research on gunpowder to see just how much of a fuss it would be to produce.

While it did work in their homeworld, it never made that big a splash for one very important reason. After looking at the history of bows and crossbows versus guns, and examining the game mechanics of all three, we came to an amusing conclusion:

Earth humans adopted guns because we are racially incompetent with bows. D&D archers can outperform us by an order of magnitude, and don't require generations of special training; in fact, an equal investment of training (levels plus feats) results in only a very slim edge in damage per round from a dedicated gunman over a dedicated bowman, and the added expense of the gunman's high-tech equipment makes that a questionable investment. Whereas real-world humans find guns just plain easier to learn to use.

But again, Erfworld rules are an unknown quantity.

[NecroPaladin]

Okay, has anyone considered the sheer stupidity of manufacturing bombs in a volcano with fire-breathing dragons over your head?

Sheesh.

And besides, the city is strapped for men and you need a huge crew to mass-produce gunpowder.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Okay, has anyone considered the sheer stupidity of manufacturing bombs in a volcano with fire-breathing dragons over your head?

Sheesh.
Maybe we haven't. But then, neither will Stanley if Parson so much as mentions the idea.

Midnight Lurker: well, part of that is an artifact of D&D mechanics not necessarily accurately reflecting the power difference between firearms and bows. We could get into a whole long debate about how best to model firearms in D&D, but better minds than we have tried, failed, and gotten into massive flamewars over it. Let's just say that while it may be hard to model in D&D mechanics, in the real world, gunpowder weapons are generally superior to pre-gunpowder weapons in eliminating hardened targets. I think that's generic enough not to be wrong.

[TinSoldier]

The reason that crossbows, and later gunpowder weapons, eclipsed bows was not because they were more effective but because they required less training to use effectively.

Of course, that doesn't apply to cannon and mortars.

[Midnight Lurker]

Midnight Lurker: well, part of that is an artifact of D&D mechanics not necessarily accurately reflecting the power difference between firearms and bows. We could get into a whole long debate about how best to model firearms in D&D, but better minds than we have tried, failed, and gotten into massive flamewars over it. Let's just say that while it may be hard to model in D&D mechanics, in the real world, gunpowder weapons are generally superior to pre-gunpowder weapons in eliminating hardened targets. I think that's generic enough not to be wrong.

Part of it? That was ALL of it.

The whole joke was that the D&D world ran under D&D laws, which meant that it took just as much time and effort to train a gunslinger as it did an archer. So my character's introduction of gunpowder to the world just wasn't going to make as much of a difference there as on historical Earth.

[TheAnimal]

Firearms would take far, far too long to develop and manufacture. The raw materials are there, but none of the production infrastrcture.
I see this as the biggest problem in implementing modern-day-earth technology on Erfworld. Parson has neither the time or the resources to produce any significant amount of advanced (well, from Erfworld point of view) weaponry.
Besides, to misquote Arthur C. Clarke:
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."


Ah, gunpower. The first and best refuge of all technically minded modern people flung into medieval times.
Gunpowder, meh.
Consider reading "A fire upon the deep" by Vernor Vinge.
I'd love to land in a medieval setting with my copy of a 1950's engineering manual.
(That thing is frightfully thorough in describing everything from road pavement to steam engines to automobiles - too bad radio technology was "in a state of rapid development" during the time and thus left out of the book.)
I could take over the world! Bwahahaha! Bwahahahahaaaa!

Of course, there's the "Johnny and the Bomb" phenomenon: How many modern people know how to make a computer from a lump of silica? In the book, Wobbler, who ends up stranded in the 1940's, becomes incredibly wealthy by establishing a hamburger chain. When his friends later berate him for not "inventing" something really useful, he just shows them a plastic spoon, asking: "How many of you know how to make one of these?". After mumbling something to the effect of "Well, you take some oil and then, um..." they realize they really don't know.
(Kind of scary, isn't it?)

[Midnight Lurker]

I'd love to land in a medieval setting with my copy of a 1950's engineering manual.
(That thing is frightfully thorough in describing everything from road pavement to steam engines to automobiles - too bad radio technology was "in a state of rapid development" during the time and thus left out of the book.)
I could take over the world! Bwahahaha! Bwahahahahaaaa!

You'd also want some kind of geophysical survey, to know where to mine...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Part of it? That was ALL of it.

The whole joke was that the D&D world ran under D&D laws, which meant that it took just as much time and effort to train a gunslinger as it did an archer. So my character's introduction of gunpowder to the world just wasn't going to make as much of a difference there as on historical Earth.
Oh. A joke. I get jokes.

No I don't.

[pclips]

Gunpowder, meh.
Consider reading "A fire upon the deep" by Vernor Vinge.

I second that recommendation so hard.

Someone asked if we were considering the gunpowder angle. I'm trying to give neither spoilers nor explanations on these threads. All I can say is that we've tried to write this story with a deep background, including consideration of a whole lot of stuff just like this. I mean, we may have launched Erfworld in December, but we're now up on the one-year anniversary of when we started writing it.

[Telonius]

Also, sulfur comes from volcanos, but where are you getting the nitrates? Bats?

DoomBats, Pigeons, Bogroll... ? :smallbiggrin:

[qvcatullus]

As someone mentioned before, there's a lot more to making effective firearms than knowing how to make gunpowder. Unless Parson happens to be an expert metallurgist, gunsmith, and chemist with a strong background in gunpowder and explosives, it's not going to get them very far very quick.

The discovery of gunpowder didn't immediately cause vast sweeping change across the battlefields of Europe. The gunpowder that most people could remember how to make off the top of their heads (mix sulfur, potash, and charcoal, try experimenting with the proportions until it pops) isn't going to win wars for you; a great deal more capability to refine and mix the components is necessary. If anyone here happens to remember that you can significantly increase the explosive power by adding in urine, making cakes from the powder, and breaking these up into pellets, then great, you're only a couple hundred years behind. The art of making proper modern gunpowder with enough force to accurately kill people without fouling the chamber isn't something most people just happen to know.

Even if he does happen to be a gunpowder chemist, there are a lot of tricks of gunsmithing that have been built up over the centuries that he most likely wouldn't have available to effectively use his more modern charge. The biggest problem of all, I would think, is that his materials aren't available, so unless he's a metallurgist who knows how to create (and produce the facilities to create) modern alloys with enough strength and the bajillion other characteristics to fire his guns without them blowing up or other nasty things, he's going to have yet another problem on his hands.

It's difficult for me to imagine any single person who could be taken back in time and dropped in a medieval setting and be able within less than, say, decades, to spur the mass-production of effective modern firearms.

[Strengfellow]

Why bother with the manufacture of firearms when one has the option of stuffing a Skelinktons (yes skelinkton. if we have Dwagons and Gobwins then Skelinktons are a shoe in) chest cavity and bonce full of gunpowder and random sharp gubbins (D4's and the like) and dropping them from Dwagon onto Ansoms army.

[Porthos]

Consider reading "A fire upon the deep" by Vernor Vinge.
I'd love to land in a medieval setting with my copy of a 1950's engineering manual.
(That thing is frightfully thorough in describing everything from road pavement to steam engines to automobiles - too bad radio technology was "in a state of rapid development" during the time and thus left out of the book.)
I could take over the world! Bwahahaha! Bwahahahahaaaa!

A similar idea is expressed in the novel (and eventual series) 1632. For people not familiar, a small West Virgina town is suddenly transported back into the year 1631 (most of the action in the novel takes place in the year 1632, hence the name of the book). The novel explores just what would happen when a decent sized number of people with Superior Knowledge fall back into the past.

Well worth a read, IMO.

[Daraken]

Such as constructing ironclads? :smallbiggrin: Can't wait until 1634: The Baltic War comes out.

The entire 163X series is really quite good, and I advise anyone interested in alternate history fiction to pick up the series. The books got me quite interested in The Thirty Years' War, and the development of gunpowder warfare.

[FlyMolo]

I think if Parson built a cannon, he could probably get some decent range. If i was building a cannon, it would be seriously overbuilt, to prevent explosions.

At the very least, he can use gunpowder as a base for some kind of incendiary and lob it into ansom's camp, via dwagon or catapult.

Still, magic might very well work much better.

[mport2004]

The biggest problem of all, I would think, is that his materials aren't available, so unless he's a metallurgist who knows how to create (and produce the facilities to create) modern alloys with enough strength and the bajillion other characteristics to fire his guns without them blowing up or other nasty things, he's going to have yet another problem on his hands.

Iron cylinder with one end closed and a small hole near closed end + iron ball + powder + fire applied to small hole = Musket or cannon its not a very effective but it works. you dont need special alloys

[TheOtherMC]

Can we skip to the part where Parson has his hand cut off and replaced with a chainsaw already? That's the part with the best lines, anyway. :p

Yeah....that reference just made my day...

[Strengfellow]

The Years of Rice and Salt (2002) is an alternate history novel written by science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson, a thought experiment about a world in which neither Christianity nor the European cultures based on it achieve lasting impact on world history. It was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Novel in 2003.

That was cut from wiki. I highly recomend this book if you like AltHist.

[TinSoldier]

Iron cylinder with one end closed and a small hole near closed end + iron ball + powder + fire applied to small hole = Musket or cannon its not a very effective but it works. you dont need special alloysYeah, if they can build an iron bell then they can build a cannon. Or a mortar. That's what some of the original tech was based on IIRC.

[mport2004]

iron bell, IIRC.
what iron bell? and what does IIRC mean?

[TinSoldier]

what iron bell? and what does IIRC mean?Medieval technology was capable of making bells of iron, mainly for churches. The same technology for casting bells was adapted to creating cannon and mortars.

IIRC is internet speak for "If I Remember Correctly."

[mport2004]

thank you for the explination

[Bilgore]

On a side note and involving the direct quote above, you might actually stand a chance of getting decent wood charcoal if there was a forest there before, and the volcano destroyed it with a blast.

Keep in mind peeps are mostly sugar.
Even if you're not keen on saltpeter + sugar, remember what you get when you add sulfuric acid (remember that volcano?) to sugar--wash the acid out and let it dry, and you have plenty of carbon.

[FlyMolo]

Imagine His Toolship's face if Parson ground up some of his fighters and mixed them with distilled feces, then put them in a skinny bell and lit them on fire.

As far as His Toolship's concerned, Parson's gone bat-crazy.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Why is everyone assuming he'd try to build a gun? A much cheaper, easier, and psychologically damaging weapon would be the rocket tube. Attach a rocket with a small warhead to a stick, push stick down a wooden tube, point tube at enemy, light rocket. Foom.

The big point is that Ansom's armies have never seen gunpowder. Seeing 'flaming, screaming, exploding arrows moving very, very fast' is going to do a helluva lot of morale damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'll have to agree that rockets would be a much easier adaptation for use of gunpowder. Just do what the chineese did... strap a rocket onto the back of an Uncroaked. One uncroaked bends over on all fours to 'aim' it (and I use the term with my tongue firmly in my cheek since it's doubtful you could get any sort of steady burn with the technology available to him), while the one next to him uses the torch to light it. Rocket takes off and blows up in the middle of a formation (the only thing you're going to hit with ANY kind of accuracy), causing little actual damage but a whole lot of morale issues and disruption.

To be honest, why bother? Why try to make a petard to chunk at them when you can chunk a fireball far more reliabally with the technology (magic) at hand for the same, if not more, actual damage?

[Wardog]

Why is everyone assuming he'd try to build a gun? A much cheaper, easier, and psychologically damaging weapon would be the rocket tube. Attach a rocket with a small warhead to a stick, push stick down a wooden tube, point tube at enemy, light rocket. Foom.

The big point is that Ansom's armies have never seen gunpowder. Seeing 'flaming, screaming, exploding arrows moving very, very fast' is going to do a helluva lot of morale damage.


Will people who are used to seeing mages (pyromancer? pwyromancers? fireomancers? blastomancers?) hurling massive fireballs and the like with deadly effect be so terrified of inaccurate, homemade rockets?

(I'm assuming that Erfworld includes the classic "fireball chucking" caster type).


As for firearms:

As previous posters have mentioned: it took a long time on Earth for firearms to develop to the point that they were effective battlefield weapons.

Unless Parson is already practiced as making black powder and plack powder firearms, then he will likely only be able to produce ones equivilent to the very earliest real-world ones.

And bear in mind that these were not only inaccurate and unreliable, they were also dangerous to the user. King James II of Scotland was killed (1460) when one of his own army's cannons exploded while he was inspecting it.

As one of the members of rifle club recently said: Making a gun is easy. The trick is making one that doesn't blow up in your hand when you fire it.


Also bear in mind that both the skills required to use a gun effectivly, and the skills required for a musket-armed soldiers to operate effectivly, require lots of practice, and instruction from someone with experience of them.

Playing table-top wargames may teach the skills required to command an army in a world that follows turn-based rules of warefare. But they won't teach you anything about marksmanship etc.


Finally, seeing that Erfworld follows a lot of computer strategy game conventions, researching Gunpowder will probably take a lot of time and Schmuckers (and possibly some Wood and/or Food as well). And we don't know they've even researched the pre-requesite technologies yet!

[TinSoldier]

Also bear in mind that both the skills required to use a gun effectivly, and the skills required for a musket-armed soldiers to operate effectivly, require lots of practice, and instruction from someone with experience of them.True, but they required less training than a bow. They did require new tactics, though, which is a training challenge all its own.

[archon_huskie]

Or . . . Lord Hamstar becomes Erfworld's first pwyromancer!

[Wardog]

True, but they required less training than a bow. They did require new tactics, though, which is a training challenge all its own.

Yes, but unfortunately its still weeks or months, as opposed to years. Which probably isn't logn enough to help here.


Another advantage of firearms over bows, that was pointed out by one histroy book I recently read, is not so much "ease of use", as less dependance on strength and stamina.

Medieval wars often involved lots of long-distance marching, with poor food and accomodation for the troops. Consequently soldiers on long campaigns would gradually become weaker, and so less able to use bows effectively. This became more significant as armour technology improved, as it required powerfuler bows to penetrate, which in turn required greater strength to use.

As it became harder to find enough archers who were strong enough to beat armour, and fit enough to maintain that strength throughout the campaign, firearms became more vital battlefield weapons.


As Stanley uses a lot of uncroaked troops, this would probably not be such an isse for him.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Will people who are used to seeing mages (pyromancer? pwyromancers? fireomancers? blastomancers?) hurling massive fireballs and the like with deadly effect be so terrified of inaccurate, homemade rockets?


But only a few mages at a time... versus easily hundreds of rockets in one screaming salvo. And the big problem with making firearms is that unless refined, gunpowder burns far too slowly to be of any use.

[Tokiko Mima]

Yeah....that reference just made my day...

Thanks! I aim to please, one boomstick at a time.

[Radar]

The reason that crossbows, and later gunpowder weapons, eclipsed bows was not because they were more effective but because they required less training to use effectively.

Of course, that doesn't apply to cannon and mortars.
Hmm... that may be the reason, but crossbows were still more powerfull then bows in terms of range and piercing power. Crossbows power wasn't limited by the humen strenght, however they had much worse firerate due to long reload time. They were probably the first weapon to be prohibited (not that anyone obeyed that law). ;-)

And it is importent to mention, that gunpowder made heavy cavalery totaly ineffective, so one should not underestimate firearms. :-)

More on topic: well i don't think that Parson would dedicate himself to make gunpowder. He is more of a strategist then an inventor, so he will concentrate on making a battle plan and not on making things that may or may not work and require too much effort and time (which they don't have).

[TheOtherMC]

He'd probably find Army of Darkness too cliche anyway :P

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

Earth humans adopted guns because we are racially incompetent with bows. D&D archers can outperform us by an order of magnitude, and don't require generations of special training; in fact, an equal investment of training (levels plus feats) results in only a very slim edge in damage per round from a dedicated gunman over a dedicated bowman, and the added expense of the gunman's high-tech equipment makes that a questionable investment. Whereas real-world humans find guns just plain easier to learn to use.

Precisely, armies often moved to firearms because it was overall a cheaper and easier alternative to bows and crossbows. Bowmen required many years (decades sometimes) to develope the strength necessary and to truly master the bow. Crossbows were much easier to use but rate of fire was lower and weather conditions significantly affected performance, if the strings got wet they would expand and loose lots of power, same with bows but at least those could be restrung quickly with spare (and hopefully dry) strings. Bows needed special knowledge and woods/fibers to build correctly and crossbows required some decent knowledge of mechanics and could not be repaired very well in the field.

Firearms were relatively easy to cast (a simple metal tube in some cases) and while the gunpowder could be difficult to make it was easy to use, so armies could be raised quickly unlike bowmen. Not to mention the fact that lots of loud booms tended to scare people and in most battles of the period victory was won by the army that could stand and fight longer not necessary better. Retreats tended to turn into routs, especially since communication was almost nonexistant, the guys loosing on the left flank would have no idea that the guys on the right flank are winning. So both armies have one flank winning and one losing (assuming the middle is evenly matched) But the first losing flank to start retreating will allow the center to be flanked and induce a retreat there too, and usually when you see you buddy running away you think "hmm maybe I should run too!"

[Tokiko Mima]

He'd probably find Army of Darkness too cliche anyway :P

Oh, I could see Parson weaving in an Army of Darkness reference or two when he's issuing orders to the troops. "Primitive screwheads" is just two good a metaphor to pass up. :smalltongue:

[TheOtherMC]

Oh, I could see Parson weaving in an Army of Darkness reference or two when he's issuing orders to the troops. "Primitive screwheads" is just two good a metaphor to pass up. :smalltongue:

"Good? bad? I'm the guy with the Dwagons" :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Kanthalion]

Actually, for me, the thought of gunpowder introduced in a fantasy world reminds me of Joel Rosenburg's "Defenders of the Flame" series.

[Glome]

Personally, gunpowder wouldn't be what I would attempt to make in Parson's situation, given access to knowledge of modern technology in a more primitive world. I would instead try to go for some sort of greek fire, napalm, or phosophorous concoction that can easily be adapted to their current machinery. Throwing napalm out of a catapault is much easier then trying to construct a cannon.

Of course even that sort of feat would depend on what Parson's educational background happens to be. If he's studied enough chemistry he might know how to properly extract the ingredients he needs, but most people wouldn't be able to accomplish such a task even if they were vaguely aware of what the required ingredients were.

Honestly though, even most experts become reliant on technology to do most of the work for them and may not be able to derive the needed chemicals themselves even if they know everything about their properties and how to mix them.

I think at that this point, Parson's best chance of having applicable skills to this world outside of the gaming table is if he was part of the SCA,a Renn. Fair or other medieval recreation group. At least that would give him some familarity with the technology of the day, and would fit in with his already known interests. Of course the fact that he's as out of shape would make it little less likely.

If I could create gunpowder in that period though, I might just use it to create a special flying chair for Stanley, sort of like Wan Hu
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wan_Hu)

[Calemyr]

Well, remember how keen he was on the Princess Bride references. I am absolutely certain we'll here a few quotes from Ash sooner or later.

Also, let's just be honest: calling Army of Darkness cliche is like claiming Lord of the Rings stole too much from Dungeons and Dragons.

As for gunpowder, it wouldn't be overpoweringly useful compared to trained and experienced burnomancers. But it would be useful and powerful if used in conjunction with them. Set up traps that can be triggered by the weaker half of fire spells and you've effectively doubled the effectiveness of your your burnomancers while at the same time throwing the enemy entirely off their game (they're not used to Stanley's men *thinking*, remember?).

[Demosthenes]

What about thermite? There's a good many people out there that knows how to make it. What could be the chance that Lord Hamster got bored and decided to google it. Imagine hurling -that- out of a catapult.

[Glome]

What about thermite? There's a good many people out there that knows how to make it. What could be the chance that Lord Hamster got bored and decided to google it. Imagine hurling -that- out of a catapult.

Hmm, looking it up the ingredients, they should be readily available in that world. The problem is, how do you ignite the stuff? From Wikipedia:


Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction.

Also, aluminium might not be readily available in this world, as it was considered a precious metal before modern times. Any other reactive metal could be substituted in the reaction, but it wouldn't be as safe or effective as using aluminum.

[Xerxos]

Perhaps Gunpowder is the wrong direction... perhaps he needs to develop napalm. Or simply a effective way to poison the water for the enemy. Modern development isn't just gunpowder...

Now, where is my "terrorist cookbook" again... :smallwink:

[TheAnimal]

Hmm, looking it up the ingredients, they should be readily available in that world. The problem is, how do you ignite the stuff?
Secret ingredient: powdered magnesium. It can be ignited by normal means - actually, a spark in a pile of magnesium flakes will do - and generates enough heat to ignite the thermite.
Finding a good supply of magnesium could be quite an effort, though.
Then again, I bet any burnamancer worth his/her salt would do... :smallwink:

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Meh. Parson could always introduce repeater crossbows if all else failed- the Chinese used them to great effect.

I do recall there being a website called Anarchist's Cookbook that had lots of this stuff...

[Glome]

I do recall there being a website called Anarchist's Cookbook that had lots of this stuff...

If this is the same Anarchist Cookbook that is in a paperback version, don't bother trying out the recipes. The instructions were so badly written that there's a good chance of you blowing yourself up if you follow the directions as written.

It's to the point where there is even a conspiracy theory about the book that it was written by the CIA to kill hippies. Not that I believe such a thing, but it should bring home how badly written the book was that such an idea would even be thought of. It's still worth reading for the entertainment value even though the information is unreliable.

[RusVal]

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Sure, it is unlikely that Parson knows exactly how to make gunpowder weaponry himself. However, because of his modern upbringing, he might recognize other people who have the necessary abilities needed quicker than most people on Erfworld. So while Parson himself won't singlehandedly design weaponry, he can reduce the research time needed to develop such weapons by picking out the talent needed for the task.


In this way, it sort of plays into the "strategy game" element of Erfworld in how Warlords effect the troops abilities:

Ansom: his winning smile and boundless courage spawns his troops into greater acts of heroism. +1 in all attacks and magical abilities.

Hamster: a man from another world, the "Perfect Warlord" as a strange nack for strategy, not to mention knowledge of technologies alien to everyone of this world. All units get a 50% increase in defense when in rough terrain, and the cost of all research into technologies is reduced by 50%.

(Note: those aren't the exact bonuses to troops, if there are in fact any. I'm just pointing out that in some games, choosing a particular warlord gains advantages and disadvantages to the army they lead)