Golem Wheelchair (PEACH)

[Surpriser]

For an upcoming 3.5 campaign, I plan on playing a gnome artificer with a bit of a twist:
Due to a rare affliction (mechanically represented by the slow and feeble flaws, combined with a really low Str), he will have difficulties with any sort of physical activity. To mitigate his condition, he has designed and built some sort of magical wheelchair/riding golem (think Scruffy from gw2, who definitely was a source of inspiration).

Since I could not find suitable stats for this sort of contraption, I had to homebrew it myself. Before I submit it to my DM for approval, it would be great to get input from another perspective.

So, here's the idea:

A riding golem (Mark I) consists of an armored body containing a seat for a rider and supported by between three and eight legs (exact number still to be determined). The current model does not include arms, though I have been thinking about adding those. The whole construct stands a good 5ft tall and weighs 200lb (not including weight of the pilot and any carried items)

Medium construct (non-sentient) <- as in "not even mindless", unable to perform any action without direction
Init: pilot's init count, Senses: none
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 17 (+7 natural)
hp 53 (6 HD)
Immune: construct immunites, item immunities
Saves: Fort +2 Ref +2 (max) Will +2
Speed 20ft (4 squares) with pilot only
Attacks: none
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Abilities : Str 18, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis —, Cha —
SQ construct traits, pilot dependability, hardness 5
-
Item Immunities: Having no wisdom score, Mark I counts as an object for the purpose of being targeted by effects (magical or otherwise) and is immune to any effect unless it also affects objects (see rules for smashing objects for damage).
Pilot dependability: Without a pilot giving directions, Mark I stands motionless (resulting in a -5 Dex penalty to its AC). While steered by a pilot, it uses the lower of its own and the pilots Dex scores for AC, (skill) checks and saves. Additionally, any bonus to AC except size, armor and natural armor boni that affects its pilot also affects Mark I.
While under the control of a pilot, Mark I uses the pilot's saving throw boni (but keep in mind that his Dex score might be lower than usual).
While unattended, Mark I uses its own saving throw boni, but automatically fails all Reflex saves.
Mechanical Instabilities: Though quite stable, once Mark I is prone, its pilot must spend either a full-round action or a move action together with a DC 20 Balance check to get up again. If the Balance check fails, the action is wasted.
Once Mark I has taken enough damage to fall below 10hp, it becomes more difficult to handle. Each round, the pilot must make a new UMD check against DC 25. On a failure, Mark I suffers from a partial breakdown of its functions (details left to DM, usually (partial) paralysis, penalties on performed action or involuntary actions) until either the pilot succeeds on his UMD check or enough damage is repaired to bring Mark I back up over 10hp.

Piloting: Any small creature fits onto the pilot's seat, though only its creator can sit there comfortably.
A pilot can strap himself to the seat as a full-round action. Once in place, he can activate Mark I with a DC 20 UMD check. From then on, he can (mentally) command Mark I to perform any action it is physically able to perform, though he must give up his own equivalent actions to do so (for example: give up a move action to let Mark I move up to its speed). He remains in control until he willingly deactivates Mark I or is removed from its seat.
While steering Mark I, the pilot uses the lower value of his and Mark I's Dex score for the purpose of AC and Reflex Saves.
Protective Plating: Mark I provides its pilot with a +5 armor bonus to AC.
In addition, the pilot can choose to grant himself cover against a single attack or weaponlike spell (defined as: requiring a (touch) attack roll to hit) he is aware of as an immediate action. If he does so, the attacker can choose to target Mark I instead with +4 bonus to his attack against it.
Similarily, the pilot can grant himself improved invasion against a single effect he is aware of as an immediate action by having Mark I take a -4 penalty on its Reflex save against this effect (in this case, Mark I is automatically targeted by the effect even if he normally wouldn't be).


These stats are loosely based on the clockwork pony (MMIV) and the clockwork armor \[link\] (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a). The purpose was to create a way for my character to be a part of a typical adventurer's party despite his disabilities and therefore defensive/utility abilites were more important than any offensive power (he will provide that himself). The price/cost should not be more than the 2150gp of the clockwork pony.

Optional upgrades I consider (maybe added during the course of the campaign):
Damage reduction (along the lines of 5/magic or 5/adamantine), arms + 2 natural slam attacks and built-in weapons/shield, HD increases for survivability, additional maneuverability (flying, spider climb, teleport).

EDIT: The campaign will start at level 6 and I plan on improving Mark I while going towards higher levels, so the intended range of usage for this version will be around level 6.

[Dyhmas]

How fortunate of you to post this! In the group I DM the artificer just (permanently) lost one of his legs (loooong story...) and this is a perfect solution!
Mind if I show my player this? Due credit will be given, of course.

Now, into the crunch, I was wondering about the price/cost you gave it...it may be just me, but doesn't 2150g seem a little too small for an "item" that doesn't occupy a slot and gives a "new" mode of moviment?

Also, should you make extra upgrades like special materials (more CA, Hardness or HP?), improved mechanics (bonus on climbing, jumping, etc?), extra legs/arms (more speed, extra reach for pilot, etc...), how about giving them all a cost/price, as to make them user friendly for players to customize said "item" as they go? Don't know, just a thought.

-Dyhmas

[Surpriser]

Sure, go ahead :D
If you use it, you have to tell me how it worked out. I won't get to play this character until autumn, so there's still some time left for improvements.

The price is based on the clockwork pony mentioned, the main differences are the defensive bonus of the golem versus higher action cost of piloting and lower speed.
With arms included, additional actions benefitting more from the golem's high Str score would become possible (think of breaking stuff or attacks), so that would probably warrant a higher cost.
Though I would rather tend to decrease abilities instead of increasing the cost - after all, there are so many wonderful items to craft and the craft reserve is limited.

The upgrades would definitely increase its cost, similarily to the upgrades for the c.p. (listing e.g. DR 5/magic or adamantine at a cost of 500gp)

[Carl]

For an upcoming 3.5 campaign, I plan on playing a gnome artificer with a bit of a twist:
Due to a rare affliction (mechanically represented by the slow and feeble flaws, combined with a really low Str), he will have difficulties with any sort of physical activity. To mitigate his condition, he has designed and built some sort of magical wheelchair/riding golem

Sounds like a certain Dwemer.

Overall i nice idea, my main concern is that at higher levels it could be almost trivially sundered or destroyed by anything that comes along. That's not a great position to be in really.

Or do you intend to create higher Mk's for higher levels, and how do you plan on dealing with excessive scaling of damage and effects like disjunction?

[Debihuman]

This probably works better as an item than a creature like a golem. A creature cannot have a non-ability in Wisdom as that makes it an object.

Wisdom: Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score.

This works as a vehicle and you can use the vehicle and drive skill from D20 Modern: http://spellbooksoftware.com/d20mrsd/vehicles.html


Vehicles are described by a number of statistics, as shown on Table: Vehicles.
Crew: The standard number of crew. In most cases, only one person is needed to drive the vehicle; other crew members serve as gunners or copilots.
Passengers: The number of passengers (in addition to the crew) the vehicle is designed to carry. Vehicles that carry passengers can use that space to carry additional cargo when passengers aren’t present. Each unused passenger slot allows the vehicle to carry an additional 100 pounds of cargo.
Cargo Capacity: The amount of cargo the vehicle is designed to carry. Many vehicles can carry extra passengers instead of cargo, but doing so is usually a cramped, uncomfortable, and often unsafe experience for those passengers. As a rule of thumb, one additional passenger can be carried for each 250 pounds of unused cargo capacity.
Initiative: The modifier added to the driver’s or pilot’s initiative check when operating the vehicle.
Maneuver: The modifier added to any Drive or Pilot checks attempted with the vehicle.
Top Speed: The maximum number of squares the vehicle can cover in 1 round at character scale (with the number of squares at chase scale in parentheses). This is the fastest the vehicle can move.
Defense: The vehicle’s Defense.
Hardness: The vehicle’s hardness. Subtract this number from any damage dealt to the vehicle.
Hit Points: The vehicle’s full normal hit points.
Size: Vehicle size categories are defined differently from the size categories for weapons and other objects.
Purchase DC: This is the purchase DC for a Wealth check to acquire the vehicle. This number reflects the base price and doesn't include any modifier for purchasing the vehicle on the black market.
Restriction: The restriction rating for the vehicle, if any, and the appropriate black market purchase DC modifier. Remember to apply this modifier to the purchase DC when making a Wealth check to acquire the vehicle on the black market.

Rather than Purchase DC and Restriction, it should be Price and Cost to create.

Is this a magical item? Then you would need the Craft Wondrous Item and appropriate spells for creation. The animate objects spells is a given.

The saves would be as driver/user. If unattended,


A magic item doesn't need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

Debby

[Hanuman]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-steed

I suggest just modding this.

[Dyhmas]

Sure, go ahead :D
If you use it, you have to tell me how it worked out. I won't get to play this character until autumn, so there's still some time left for improvements.

Soooo, I let my player know about this and, after reading your post, the first thing he asked me was if he could, eventually, attach a cannon from their ship (long story, again) to it.

So...yeah, players sometimes have amazing ideas. I'm pretty much gonna let him, with massive drawbacks of course (basically being blast back by the shot's recoil), but just mentioned this for fresh ideas' sake.

Keep on!

-Dyhmas

[Surpriser]

Overall i nice idea, my main concern is that at higher levels it could be almost trivially sundered or destroyed by anything that comes along. That's not a great position to be in really.

Or do you intend to create higher Mk's for higher levels, and how do you plan on dealing with excessive scaling of damage and effects like disjunction?
I probably should have included it in the original article. The campaign will start at level 6 and go up to 12 maximally (and I plan on improving this thing along the way as I level, either with the mentioned upgrades or by crafting better versions of it). So, it sure is not suited for high-level play, but it is not meant to be either.


This probably works better as an item than a creature like a golem. A creature cannot have a non-ability in Wisdom as that makes it an object.
If it were treated completely as an item, by RAW Mark I would rarely ever take damage (unless enemies specifically tried to destroy it, which I rarely expect to happen (Use sunder and try to make a dent in the golem or strike at the one sitting inside who is actually a threat and would continue to be so even if its ride were smashed - tough choice...) Additionally, it is conceptually extremely similar to a mount and a golem, though much more constrained in its abilities.
The compromise I found was to treat it as a creature with additional immunities and missing some basic abilities.
The missing Wisdom was meant to emphasize that it is not able to perceive its surroundings or act by itself - even a mindless zombie can understand its given commands and detect enemies.
Are there any serious mechanical implications (both possible exploits and fatal weaknesses) arising from this? The fact that it is not possible by RAW is not so important - after all, this IS homebrew :D


This works as a vehicle and you can use the vehicle and drive skill from D20 Modern: http://spellbooksoftware.com/d20mrsd/vehicles.html

Most of these rules deal with vehicles at much larger speeds than 20ft. Are there any specific rules you would find useful?



Is this a magical item? Then you would need the Craft Wondrous Item and appropriate spells for creation. The animate objects spells is a given.
Craft Construct seems to be the most fitting of the craft feats for me (I also have a subjective dislike for the catch-all "Wondrous Item"). Being an artificer, I never thought about necessary spells (I will emulate those anyway). Any others apart from animate objects?


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-steed
I suggest just modding this.
While definitely powerful, it would be too much, both in power as wells as in cost, for my purpose. One factor in convincing my DM that I do not want this thing for its incredible power but for flavour reasons was to avoid any offensive capabilities.
But I did use its little brother, the clockwork pony from MMIV, as mentioned above.

[Hanuman]

If you don't want something for power why not just consider it a graft that resets your stats to default for your race, then you can make a custom PrC for it later if you want?

[LordErebus12]

what would something like this cost to craft?

[Debihuman]

If it were treated completely as an item, by RAW Mark I would rarely ever take damage (unless enemies specifically tried to destroy it, which I rarely expect to happen (Use sunder and try to make a dent in the golem or strike at the one sitting inside who is actually a threat and would continue to be so even if its ride were smashed - tough choice...) Additionally, it is conceptually extremely similar to a mount and a golem, though much more constrained in its abilities.

I doubt that. It's powerful enough that it would be targeted in a fair fight. If you treat it as a Construct, it takes normal damage. If you treat it as an Object, then it needs a hardness to determine how much damage it takes. Many spells can target objects. Disintegrate is a good one.


The compromise I found was to treat it as a creature with additional immunities and missing some basic abilities.
The missing Wisdom was meant to emphasize that it is not able to perceive its surroundings or act by itself - even a mindless zombie can understand its given commands and detect enemies.

I have no problem with its premise, it's the execution that seems to be problematic. Objects would automatically fail any Will saves. It looks like this should too but you didn't mention it.

Are there any serious mechanical implications (both possible exploits and fatal weaknesses) arising from this? The fact that it is not possible by RAW is not so important - after all, this IS homebrew :D[/quote]

The question is who has control? Can it be taken from the pilot or controlled by someone else? Because if the pilot doesn't have control, then movement is an issue for the pilot. It needs to have a weight for purpose of some spells for example.



Most of these rules deal with vehicles at much larger speeds than 20 ft. Are there any specific rules you would find useful?

Speed is hardly the issue unless everyone decides to ride horses and your gnome is stuck having to play catch up with the rest of the party. Plus your gnome now has to count as a Medium size for purposes of squeezing into a smaller space but not for what weapons he can use.

quote]Craft Construct seems to be the most fitting of the craft feats for me (I also have a subjective dislike for the catch-all "Wondrous Item"). Being an artificer, I never thought about necessary spells (I will emulate those anyway). Any others apart from animate objects? [/quote]

it depends on what you want this to do. Is it just for movement? What about spider climb or other abilities? Does it offer it's pilot any cover? Does it add to the pilots AC?

Debby

[Surpriser]

If you don't want something for power why not just consider it a graft that resets your stats to default for your race, then you can make a custom PrC for it later if you want?
For a graft I would rather use something that is somehow affixed to the character.
As for resetting the stats: If I wanted that, I would not have bothered with designing a golem and just left my stats unmodified. The main point of using the riding golem is flavour and this should be reflected in the included mechanics.


what would something like this cost to craft?
My target/guideline is the price of the clockwork pony mentioned above (2150gp). The cost of building it is given in the MMIV as 1150gp (with 150gp being the raw materials for the body).
I would rather remove/weaken abilities than increase the cost if my version turns out to be more powerful than suited for this price.


I doubt that. It's powerful enough that it would be targeted in a fair fight. If you treat it as a Construct, it takes normal damage. If you treat it as an Object, then it needs a hardness to determine how much damage it takes. Many spells can target objects. Disintegrate is a good one.

If I treat it as an item, the only way to attack it directly would be sunder or some few targetted spells. For me it seems reasonable to also have it take damage from things like fireball or other area effects (and not only on a natural 1 on the save of the pilot). Also, it should be possibly to effectively target it without investing in Improved Sunder or similar abilities, just as it is possibly to hit an animated object.



I have no problem with its premise, it's the execution that seems to be problematic. Objects would automatically fail any Will saves. It looks like this should too but you didn't mention it.
Well, even (unattended) magical items get a save against harmful effects and they use their owner's save bonus if attended.
What would be a suitable way to handle for example Telekinesis or other spells? I tend toward simply using the "save bonus of owner" rule for items and only use the golem's save bonus when it is unattended.



The question is who has control? Can it be taken from the pilot or controlled by someone else? Because if the pilot doesn't have control, then movement is an issue for the pilot. It needs to have a weight for purpose of some spells for example.

Good question. For simplicity (as well as keeping in line with other examples like the clockwork pony) I would say that whoever sits in the pilot seat and makes the UMD check is in control until he gives up control or leaves the seat (and since there is room for one person only anyway, there shouldn't be any problems with that). Of course you could either move the golem externally (like with telekinesis) or control/charm the pilot to get indirect control.
The weight for a clockwork pony is not given, but comparing with a shield guardian (who is Large and more than 50% taller) gives an estimated weight of about 250lb which seems quite suitable. This is about as much as the average half-orc, which makes sense since Mark I is smaller, but made mostly of iron. Accounting for the missing arms would set the final weight at 200lb.



Speed is hardly the issue unless everyone decides to ride horses and your gnome is stuck having to play catch up with the rest of the party. Plus your gnome now has to count as a Medium size for purposes of squeezing into a smaller space but not for what weapons he can use.
Yes, these are two drawbacks of the riding golem that I am prepared to accept. Should we ever need to travel by horse or any other medium where my golem would slow us down, then I will have to come up with ideas to compensate (Scroll of Longstrider perhaps or shrink item to carry it with me on a horse).



it depends on what you want this to do. Is it just for movement? What about spider climb or other abilities? Does it offer it's pilot any cover? Does it add to the pilots AC?
It is used mostly for flavour :D The mechanical qualities are the ones listed above, so mostly movement and defense and some utility. Additional abilities will have to be included using either infusions (temporary) or upgrades (permanent).

[Zombimode]

If I treat it as an item, the only way to attack it directly would be sunder or some few targetted spells. For me it seems reasonable to also have it take damage from things like fireball or other area effects (and not only on a natural 1 on the save of the pilot).

Whu...? Items can be attacked just fine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering). Area damage spells also affect everything in its area.

[Surpriser]

Whu...? Items can be attacked just fine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering). Area damage spells also affect everything in its area.
Also from the SRD:

Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects).
One possibility would be to treat Mark I not as an item "carried or worn" but rather as an object independent of its owner (and always apply the rules for unattended magical objects).
But I think, a skilled pilot should be better able to protect Mark I from danger, so it should use the pilot's save boni while active.
While inactive (without a pilot), Mark I should use its own Fort and Will Save but automatically fail any Ref saves (after all, it does not even move to deflect attacks). I might combine it with a -5 dex penalty to AC while inactive.