Developed Outsider PrC for outsiders [PEACH]

[kinem]

Edit: I decided to move the SLAs up so SLA 1 starts at 1st level, & increased the prerequisite to 8 HD, as of 8/20/14

Developed Outsider PrC

A Developed Outsider, through meditation, training, and absorption of planar energies, expands its spell-like abilities and improves its combat skills and other abilities.

Prerequisites: Outsider type, Knowledge(the planes) 5 ranks, 8 HD, and at least one spell-like or supernatural ability.

HD: d8
BAB: 3/4 (as cleric)
Good saves: Fort, Will (as cleric)
Skills: 6+Int mod points/level

Class skills: Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft

Choose any 4 additional skills as class skills.

The Developed Outsider gains no new weapon or armor proficiency.

Level Special
1 SLA 1, SLA 0, focus +1, detect magic, prestidigitation, SR boost, caster level boost
2 SLA 2
3 SLA 3
4 SLA 4
5 SLA 5, focus +2
6 SLA 6
7 SLA 7
8 SLA 8
9 SLA 9, focus +3

Focus: At 1st level, add +1 to the DC of one spell-like ability, spell, extraordinary ability, or supernatural ability. Alternatively, +1 can instead be added to your attack rolls with one type of natural or manufactured weapon. At levels 5 and 9, add an additional +1 to the same or a different ability or weapon.

Detect magic: You can use this SLA at will.
Prestidigitation: You can use this SLA at will.

SR boost: Add your Developed Outsider level to your Spell Resistance. This does not stack with any SR increase you would otherwise get by gaining levels. If you had no SR before entering the class, then your SR is now 10 + Developed Outsider level.

Caster level boost: Add your Developed Outsider level to your caster level for spells and spell-like abilities from other sources. This does not stack with any caster level increase increase you would otherwise get by gaining levels.

SLA #: Choose a spell from any spell list of a level equal to or less than the given #, to use as a spell-like ability up to 3/day. If the spell has an expensive material component or an XP cost, you must supply that component or pay that cost. The caster level is equal to your total HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

If a new SLA is an improved version of an existing SLA (e.g. greater teleport vs. teleport, or cure moderate wounds vs. cure light wounds), then the Developed Outsider can choose to substitute the existing SLA with a different ability of the appropriate spell level or less.

[kinem]

I made a few changes. I think the previous version was a little too strong.

[Adam1949]

An aasimar or tiefling can easily gain this at level 7, entering it at level 8.

SR and Caster Level boost wreck any sense of balance when it comes to magic-using.

The SLAs are absolutely ridiculous. ANY spell from ANY spell-list, especially knowing that some classes have spells at levels MUCH lower than other classes, not to mention that several powerful spells have no expensive components? This simply isn't balanced, and I can't think of a way to make it balanced.

[kinem]

Thanks for the review Adam.

I'm not seeing it, though.

A tiefling that enters the class at level 8 (ECL 9) and takes all 10 levels will end up at level 17 (ECL 18).

Spell resistance? Since has no SR prior to taking the class, he'll start at SR 11 at ECL 9, and have SR 20 by ECL 18. Useful vs. low level foes, but more of a joke than anything else.

Caster level boost? OK, if he was a sorcerer 7 before he took the class, he'll have a caster level of 17. That's just caster level, which affects checks vs SR and spell duration but not much else. It keeps his old spells somewhat useful but is nothing to write home about. Obviously his sorcerer level doesn't increase so he doesn't get more spells per day or higher level spells.

Some classes get spells at lower levels than others - so what? What do you have in mind? A bard's irresistible dance at spell level 6 instead of 8? OK, so this guy can get it at ECL 15 ... while a human wizard can get it at level 15, and a human bard at level 16.

True, he can choose some healing spells and also some good wizard spells. But he only gets one spell-like ability per spell level, 3/day. How does that compare to a cleric 5 / wizard 3 / mystic theurge 10?

[Angelalex242]

Ya know, if it was really a 'developed outsider' class...

Shouldn't it have warrior BAB (like an outsider) and monk saves (like an outsider?) Also, 8+int skill points like an outsider.

Aasimar and Tieflings aren't the only races that'll be taking this class. You might find honest to god REAL outsiders also taking it. And thus, it should allow an Astral Deva, say, to get the same sort of abilities he might otherwise have from advancing his HD.

Knowledge the Planes as an entry requirement limits the classes taking it to spellcasting classes, as only Clerics, Wizards, and Bards can take knowledge the planes as a class skill.

Aasimar Paladins, for example, or Tiefling Rogues...won't be able to enter the class 'on time.'

[kinem]

Ya know, if it was really a 'developed outsider' class...

Shouldn't it have warrior BAB (like an outsider) and monk saves (like an outsider?) Also, 8+int skill points like an outsider.

My initial version did, but I changed it. It seemed too strong with the other class abilities added.


Aasimar and Tieflings aren't the only races that'll be taking this class. You might find honest to god REAL outsiders also taking it.

That's the idea, especially for fiends like my homebrew yugoloths to take it.


And thus, it should allow an Astral Deva, say, to get the same sort of abilities he might otherwise have from advancing his HD.

That conclusion does not follow from your premise.


Knowledge the Planes as an entry requirement limits the classes taking it to spellcasting classes, as only Clerics, Wizards, and Bards can take knowledge the planes as a class skill.

Aasimar Paladins, for example, or Tiefling Rogues...won't be able to enter the class 'on time'.

Good point. There's a feat (skill knowledge) that lets you add a class skill. Still, that's a lot of resources to invest and not really something most outsiders with racial HD could do. So I changed it to 5 ranks and 7 HD.

[Angelalex242]

I'm not sure I'd call it 'too strong' as it goes.

Your class essentially creates a high tier 3 low tier 2 character. Kind of a weaker sorcerer with even more limited spell selection.

I'm not sure the very strong chassis adequately compensates for the lack of spellcasting potential of the sorcerer. Outsider HD...proper outsider HD...is...not quite adequate compensation for playing a gimped sorcerer, but it's something.

That 9th level spell slot, for example...is he going to pick Shapechange? Time Stop? Gate? Wish? Miracle? True Res? He gets exactly one choice, and can't change it. Essentially: Pick 1 (count it, 1) way to break the game, you can now do that 3 times per day.

[kinem]

Your class essentially creates a high tier 3 low tier 2 character.

Sounds fine to me. Tier 3 is the sweet spot for class design.


Kind of a weaker sorcerer with even more limited spell selection.

Where it shines is more for an outsider who starts with several racial HD already. Consider a hydroloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361271-Hydroloth-PEACH) with 7 HD and a +3 LA. He has the elite array of ability scores so he can be of above average Int and pick up the ranks in Knowledge that he'd need. He could go sorcerer, and be casting level 5 spells by ECL 20. Or he could take this class, and have a few high-level SLAs by then, and an extra +3 DC for his poison spit.

[Angelalex242]

I guess I'm trying to say...

Compare this to an Aasimar Sorcerer of equal level...

Or a Tiefling Wizard of equal level...

(Both races buy off their ECL at 3rd level, naturally)

And make sure this offers enough to keep up.

[kinem]

Why? This already is useful to the kinds of characters with racial HD that I intended it for, as I explained above.

The way I see it, homebrew classes should not step on the toes of standard options, so they can be added to any game without changing much about the campaign setting, including the fact that all of the NPCs in any modules you might use have no homebrew classes in their builds.

[JBPuffin]

Besides the fact that Kinem is in charge and there's nothing wrong with the class as it is, there really is no way to compete with Wizard except to be one of the other Tier 0s; besides, Tier 3ish is the commonly-preferred target for many GMs.

Also, Developed Outsider may or may not be such a good name; angelalex does make a decent point about the class not giving all outsiders what they'd have if they carried on normally (which sounds like a decent trade for 3/day Wish), so maybe not "developed" as much as "empowered" or something?

[kinem]

SLA 0 was a little underwhelming. I decided to move the SLAs up so SLA 1 starts at 1st level, & increased the prerequisite to 8 HD.