Gentle Repose to keep undead "fresh"

[Yogibear41]

Is there any reason you couldn't use the Gentle Repose spell on newly animated dead bodies to keep them "fresh" looking to make them appear basically how they looked when they died?

[AnimusBane]

Only for grammatical reasons could i argue against it, an undead creature is not a corpse (creature vs item in dnd). But if it can't be done after the corpse is animated then you could always permanency(with dm approval) the repose then animate. Of course it all depends on the dm. I personally would allow it simply because you are still preserving dead flesh and at worst I would say it would have half the duration or some such.

[Coidzor]

It's a fairly widespread thing, IIRC. Technically it's against RAW, maybe, due to Targeting requirements in the spell, I suppose?

[Cowardly Griffo]

I can't see why it wouldn't work. At the very least it should work if you cast it on the body prior to animating it, as Animus Bane stated–but even at that, a zombie is basically a walking corpse, so I should think you would be able to cast the spell on a zombie as well. Especially since the spell explicitly works on parts of bodies, like severed limbs and such.

About the only thing I might argue would be that the act of animating the corpse involves injecting a lot of negative energy into it, which might work against the preservative magic of Gentle Repose.

...But come to think of it, if negative energy is inimical to all life and undead are swarming with the stuff, shouldn't any bacteria / maggots / whatever be killed due to that exposure, thus making zombies less likely to rot than regular corpses?

[Cowardly Griffo]

So there's apparently a magic robe built for the specific purpose of keeping undead from rotting, and the prerequisite spell is Gentle Repose. It's called a Robe of Gentle Repose. The effect is described as being constantly under a Gentle Repose spell.

Whether that speaks for itself or not, it seems at least to be evidence towards the interpretation that the spell could apply?

[Coidzor]

Plainly, the negative energy itself causes decomposition.

fwiw, I allow it to be cast on dead bodies, but not undead. Once you animate it, you can't renew the spell. You could make it permanent before you animate it as undead, but it'd still be lost forever the first time it hits a dispel magic and fails the save.

Why? :smallconfused:

[Cowardly Griffo]

No, you can't really infer what a spell does based on what a magic item that requires the spell in its construction does.Agreed, but I was going more off of the name of the item, and the effect being described explicitly as a continuous Gentle Repose spell, than the fact that it's a construction prerequisite.

[hamishspence]

I don't know - imagine the ghosts of The Sixth Sense, as undead bodies. Their wounds, injuries, etc are all visible - but the bodies are unchanged.

Might be even creepier than the "rotten" undead.

Similarly, in Death Becomes Her - the protagonists become immortal - but none of their injuries ever heal.

[John Longarrow]

For my game, I allow it under specific circumstances.

Most undead can't receive the benefit. ONLY zombies can benefit, but their unnatural movement often make them fairly obvious. It is normally also cast along with glamors to help keep the body looking good, and the spells on the undead show up on detect magic. You can't make an undead seem totally alive with it, but you can keep people from noticing casually.

Last week, my group ran into a white dragon zombie under the effect. They noticed it wasn't alive when they started realizing it wasn't bleeding. Since it was the character's first dragon, they didn't realize it was acting different than a normal dragon (doing a LOT LESS damage).

As a DM, if it adds to the game, I'm for it. Having EVERY necromancer do it seems excessive though.

[Cowardly Griffo]

Yeah, "if it exists, every caster will do it" doesn't seem like a particularly strong conclusion, ya know? If they're using the zombies for war or to terrorize the populace, they wouldn't bother. If on the other hand they're using zombies for cheap labor (for example), they might just pop that spell on there to make the workplace more pleasant.

I think this doesn't really subtract one type of flavor (as that one would still exist) so much as it adds a different type of flavor. See also: Karrnath.

Also rotting undead would still be a thing when the dead rise due to causes other than mortal action, e.g. excessive magical taint, or demonic influence or what have you. That would create a setting where the common folk see rotting zombies and immediately thing "oh crap!", and when they see more-or-less preserved zombies walking around they might be more totally skeezed out and think "friggin' wizards and their creepy crimes against the cycle of life and death!"

...Exact words. Obviously. :P

[Segev]

...But come to think of it, if negative energy is inimical to all life and undead are swarming with the stuff, shouldn't any bacteria / maggots / whatever be killed due to that exposure, thus making zombies less likely to rot than regular corpses?

Gentle Repose is a necromancy spell, itself. Perhaps it works by specifically targeting the microbes that cause decay and killing them with negative energy.

[Inevitability]

Disguise Undead seems like the spell meant to do this.

[Psyren]

Just use Unguent of Timelessness. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) Undead creatures are pretty clearly "any matter that was once alive," or if your DM gets uppity, apply it to the corpse before raising it.

Alternatively, use skeletons - all the flesh falls off anyway.

[kkplx]

...and they're the better undead to use, anyway...

[hamishspence]

Unless you need the undead to fly. Then zombies are better - especially zombie dragons from Draconomicon - which don't double their hit dice the way normal zombies do.

[Dalebert]

Plainly, the negative energy itself causes decomposition.

Then why don't skeletons and zombies have a very limited lifespan? Or at the very least, why don't zombies rapidly become skeletons even faster than a dead body does in the ground, which is a lot faster than movies might lead us to think despite the fact that we embalm them, something frequently not done on bodies in D&D. In fact it appears to be the opposite. Zombies don't ever become skeletons which implies that the negative energy which animates them is also preserving them to some extent.

I hadn't thought of trying this and I probably won't, but I was giving thought to how I might at least be able to have my (bloody) skeletal mount in town without causing a freakout. I was contemplating covering it completely or nearly so. I figure some armor will cover it some and then been trying to think of what I could cover the rest with that wouldn't seem too weird. I imagine cloth will drape across thin bones and not hide much. The more I think about it, the more I think just about anything I try is going to look conspicuously odd.

[Spore]

Because reasons. Are you really arguing about fictional magical energies? I can understand the need to discuss this to some extend but somewhere it becomes silly really fast.

[Telonius]

I'm hunting around for any actual rules-references to Gentle Repose ... so far the only thing I've found is the Necroplasm creature from Ghostwalk. If you cast Gentle Repose on a creature it kills, that creature doesn't rise as a new Necroplasm until the Gentle Repose spell wears off.

[Dalebert]

Because reasons. Are you really arguing about fictional magical energies? I can understand the need to discuss this to some extend but somewhere it becomes silly really fast.

I don't understand the apparent irritation. Yeah, I'm discussing the topic of the thread. The entire forum is based on a comic that derives humor from exploring the minutia of the rules of a fictional universe. Are you having a bad day or something? If so, my heart goes out to you.

My point was that all evidence points to negative energy as preserving dead flesh at least to some extent. RAW, this should not work because an undead creature is not an object but not because negative energy causes decomposition because it simply doesn't. Therefore, I don't think it would be much of a stretch if a DM wanted to allow it.

[Psyren]

For zombies I think it would keep them "fresh". Other kinds of undead, e.g. Mohrgs or Ghasts have specific deformities/decay.