buffer Cleric advice

[Story]

My current group is at level 3 with a party of Fighter, Swordsage, Bard, and Summoner (ported from PF). I decided to go for a support role with a Cleric focused on party buffing.

I wasn't able to get Undeath + Planning, but I did convince the DM that Wee Jas should have the Undeath domain, so as a human Cleric 3, I can DMM Persist, but only 1 spell a day (10 turn attempts with 12 CHA). At level 6 I could do a second spell if I get Extra Turning again, but that seems far off.

Right now, the best spell I've found to persist is Elation, which is a useful bonus but not a particularly big one, especially with the Bard providing +3 IC all the time (though it does have the advantage of being always on in case we get ambushed). I went Cloistered Cleric with 9 STR and 10 DEX, so my combat stats aren't great, but between the buffs + Knowledge Devotion, I figure I can contribute a bit with a light crossbow or something.

Spell slots seem really limited. Not counting domain slots or Elation, that's only 3 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slot per day. I guess that's just a function of being low level currently, but it seems like there's not much else to do besides put up Elation and then plink away with crossbow. Domain slots don't help much because Undeath and Magic domains don't have any good spells to prepare. I think I could still change one of my domains to Mind or something if that's a good idea, but I've seen Magic often recommended, so I'm not sure about that.

Also, the DM has indicated that he doesn't play with magic mart, so I'm not sure I can count on getting any gear in the future. I'm planning on getting a Lesser Rod of Extend if I do get the opportunity. Nightsticks are a lot farther off. I'm also planning to go Church Inquisitor at next level since it seems better than sticking with Cloistered Cleric.

Any tips or suggestions? This is my first time playing a Cleric, so I'm not as familiar with all the tricks.

P.S. One trick I thought of was to carry a Tower Shield and then drop it (free action) before I attack. That way I get an AC bonus when flatfooted. Sadly you can't really drop armor, so the best I can get is Mwk Chainshirt + Restful crystal.

[Requiem_Jeer]

For one, chain shirts don't require a restful crystal. It's light armor, no penalty for sleeping in it.

Second, Elation is indeed a solid spell to persist when you only get the one and want to benefit the whole party. At your level there's also not much better. A solid one is the Quick March spell, as the tactical benefits of everyone having +30ft. speed all day are great.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Sadly, a DMM(persist) cleric is a pain to play in the first few levels, unless you find alternative sources of turn attempts that you can use to power divine metamagic (e.g. turn energy or the elemental domains). Thankfully, extra turning adds 4 turn attempts to each one of those turn sources, so you get a lot to persist.

Since that's not the case however, you can only wait, hope to get some items (Reliquary holy symbol, nightstick) and maybe a [reserve] feat from complete mage. As you gain levels the spells are going to get a lot better though.

[Story]

I already got a Reliquary Holy Symbol. They're only 500gp, so I could get it with starting WBL. That's how I got up to 10 (3+1 from cha, 4 from Extra turning, and 2 from symbol).

Also, thanks for the tip about being able to sleep in light armor.

[Rebel7284]

Does a temporary boost to charisma grant you extra turn attempts? (RAW it should)
Eagle’s Splendor gets you to ... 12 attempt.. not quite enough for second spell though.

and yes, it gets better once you are just a bit higher in levels.

[Ellowryn]

Wow, your stats are crap (number not placement). Extra turning is going to be very very important, as are items that increase cha/turn attempts.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like you have anyone to craft, so you might want to eat the low turning attempts for now and grab craft wondrous at 6 so you can start making the items you need. Also see if your Dm is willing to let you take the 3.0 version of sacred exorcist from defenders of the faith as they gain extra turning as bonus feats and you are not actually trying to cheese arcane casting.

Also, once you get enough for a second spell look at persisting ice axe, touch attack 2d12+(1/2 caster level) will help you contribute in melee without the need to waste stuff to boost str.

[Agincourt]

Sadly, a DMM(persist) cleric is a pain to play in the first few levels, unless you find alternative sources of turn attempts that you can use to power divine metamagic (e.g. turn energy or the elemental domains). Thankfully, extra turning adds 4 turn attempts to each one of those turn sources, so you get a lot to persist.


Divine Metamagic explicitly uses turn or rebuke undead. The ability to turn other creatures, like elementals, does not affect Divine Metamagic.

[Story]

Wow, your stats are crap (number not placement). Extra turning is going to be very very important, as are items that increase cha/turn attempts.

It was 32PB, but I figured 18 Wisdom was the most important, plus 14 CON since I like not dieing. Full stats (with middle aged) are 9 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 12 INT, 18 WIS, 12 CHA. Do you have a better suggestion?

[Ellowryn]

I would drip the 18(17+middle aged?) to a 16, and then toss a 16 in cha, it will give you enough turning attempts to persist 2 spells. While you are a primary caster/buffer, you actually try to maximize the use of a few number of buffs rather than try to cast many buff spells. And to that end things like metamagic rods of extend and chain are going to be very important to you.

And why middle-aged?

[Story]

Wouldn't I need 20 CHA to persist a second spell? And I picked middle aged because it was favorable for my point buy. If I focused more on physical skills, I obviously wouldn't take it.

[Ellowryn]

With your 12 cha you currently have 10 turn attempts, you just need 2 more for 2 persists (at 6 turn attempts a piece) so 16 cha will work. Also you can even drop armor entirely if you wish, as the luminous armor spells give you medium/heavy armor respectively, that, a shield, and magic vestment gives you plenty of AC on demand so you can melee it up if you need to.

[Story]

It's 7 turn attempts, so I'd need 14 to get two spells.


Also, thanks for the tip about Luminous Armor, though I don't think it's practical at this level. Remember, I only have one free level 2 spell slot, and it only lasts 3 hours, meaning it won't help in the night ambush scenario.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Divine Metamagic explicitly uses turn or rebuke undead. The ability to turn other creatures, like elementals, does not affect Divine Metamagic.

Turn Energy and Rebuke Dragons do however state that work like turn/rebuke undead for powering [divine] feats.

[AnonymousPepper]

Which would in turn override DMM's simple lack of any wording. Exactly.

I was about to say "good thinking" and then I noticed it was DM talking so more like "eh business as usual." :smallbiggrin:

[Sudain]

Right now, the best spell I've found to persist is Elation, which is a useful bonus but not a particularly big one, especially with the Bard providing +3 IC all the time (though it does have the advantage of being always on in case we get ambushed). I went Cloistered Cleric with 9 STR and 10 DEX, so my combat stats aren't great, but between the buffs + Knowledge Devotion, I figure I can contribute a bit with a light crossbow or something.


Shield of faith
Shield Other
Magic Vestment
Greater Magic Weapon

These are wondeful spells to give to the party if you can't garentee magic items.

Also, think about what you are going to do while everyone is swinging and butchering your foes - I couldn't answer that question so I didn't play a cleric.