Optimizing a Succubus Monster Class Character

[Kazumi]

I'm looking for some interesting ideas for a character I'm working on, using the monster classes from Savage Species. Specifically, a succubus. The succubus class is 12 levels long, and they gain all the abilities of a succubus from the monster manual over the course of those levels, including a hefty +16 to charisma (6 racial, then the other 10 gained over the course of 12 levels). I'm not going to explain the whole class here, of course. For those of you familiar with it, my DM has allowed me to gain a hit die at every level, instead of only getting six over the 12 class levels. So I get full BaB, save, skill point, and feat progression, instead of the reduced progression the class would normally get.

The optimization I'm looking for is both feats and combat tricks for the 12 levels of Succubus, and deciding the 8 class levels I'll take after I'm done with Succubus (The obvious answers are Sorcerer or another charisma casting class, but I'm not sure which one would be most powerful with just 8 levels) and how to build that. Extra points for optimization that sticks to the fluff of demons (Charismatic, corrupting, evil, the works).

My current stats are 15 str, 16 dex, 16 con, 16 int, 10 wis, and 20 cha. Over the course of my 12 levels of succubus, they'll increase (without counting normal ability score increases for leveling up) 17, 16 dex, 18 con, 22 int, 14 wis, and 30 cha. I'm leaning towards focusing on melee (Our party doesn't have a front-lines fighter, and with my natural armor bonuses I'll fit the role well even without armor, and exceptionally well with, say, light armor proficiency), using a 2h spear from Planar Handbook with greatsword stats.

I know that the ideas I can get from all of you wonderful people on the forums are more than any one person could come up with, and would appreciate any advice.

On a final note, I understand that this is a horribly subpar way to build a character. I'm only interested in optimizing it to make her useful in combat, I know she'll never be super powerful, and I don't mind that. Though I can think of interesting ways to build for combat. The weapon enchantment that lets you energy drain with the weapon instead of your normal way, a good grappling build for the energy drain, enchantment magic, etc.

I'm eagerly awaiting any ideas you might have, random strangers! :smallsmile:

[Illven]

You might want to consider taking two levels of Paladin of slaughter, a level of Battledancer, and two levels of Blackguard.

You'll end up with charisma to AC, and twice your charisma to saving throws.

[Kazumi]

You might want to consider taking two levels of Paladin of slaughter, a level of Battledancer, and two levels of Blackguard.

You'll end up with charisma to AC, and twice your charisma to saving throws.

I'd considered taking Paladin of Slaughter and Blackguard, but I don't know that I have the available levels to take advantage of it, and the code of conduct would be constraining. Succubi are the least likely of demons to always act evil. They have to take on roles and do good things in the pursuit of their evil, which wouldn't work with the Paladin of Slaughter's code of conduct. Besides, I think +10 to AC and +20 to my saving throws would make my DM rip his hair out and strangle me.

[AMFV]

Fiend of Corruption?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=svmarnag0dvj07nchj6mco7ql4&topic=5860.0

There is a handy handbook!

[Kazumi]

Fiend of Corruption?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=svmarnag0dvj07nchj6mco7ql4&topic=5860.0

There is a handy handbook!

Fiend of Corruption is actually one of my top choices just for the flavor, I just don't know what I'd do with those last two levels and I'm just a little uncertain about having no real combat potency outside of my DR and resistances.

That's why I was leaning towards sorcerer. My charisma would get me a metric ton of spells, even if I'd only be able to cast up to 4th level. Combine moderate sorcerer casting with an extreme charisma and a huge natural armor bonus (+9) and a mithral twilight chain shirt and you get a hard to hit flying DR 10 resistances to almost everything level draining monster throwing around over five a day enervations and taking Xykon's philosophy of hammer over finely tuned watch wither her 9+ 1st, second, and third level spells. It's just hard to optimize only 8 levels of a class like sorc.

[AMFV]

Fiend of Corruption is actually one of my top choices just for the flavor, I just don't know what I'd do with those last two levels and I'm just a little uncertain about having no real combat potency outside of my DR and resistances.

That's why I was leaning towards sorcerer. My charisma would get me a metric ton of spells, even if I'd only be able to cast up to 4th level. Combine moderate sorcerer casting with an extreme charisma and a huge natural armor bonus (+9) and a mithral twilight chain shirt and you get a hard to hit flying DR 10 resistances to almost everything level draining monster throwing around over five a day enervations and taking Xykon's philosophy of hammer over finely tuned watch wither her 9+ 1st, second, and third level spells. It's just hard to optimize only 8 levels of a class like sorc.

Well you could always go Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5. That'd get you +7 BAB, a bunch of nifty abilities. Although it's not quite what you want thematically it would dramatically improve your combat abilities. I don't remember how bad the Suel entry requirements are though, but I imagine Outsider HD could certainly get you there.

[Urpriest]

Instead of Sorceror, use Suel Arcanamach for faster progression, if you really want spells.

If not, Mindspy gives you Cha-related combat bonuses (though capped in that case), as does aforementioned Battle Dancer, and Marshal as well.

While a Succubus, consider grabbing a Necrotic Focus weapon and feats that enhance your energy drain. In particular, Life Drain from Libris Mortis lets you add your Cha to the hit points drained.

Edit: Ninja'd on the Arcanamach.

[AlanBruce]

I'd considered taking Paladin of Slaughter and Blackguard, but I don't know that I have the available levels to take advantage of it, and the code of conduct would be constraining. Succubi are the least likely of demons to always act evil.

Make no mistake. Although the idea of a paladin (whatever the variant) is that of a man clad in heavy armor, the concept of a paladin and the ethos it follows need not come clad in such heavy rainments.

Succubi are perhaps some of the most evil demons in the abyss. It is because of the statement you have made that they are even more sinister and malicious- they are able to deceive people into believing that.

[John Longarrow]

Building out the last 8 levels for Sorcerer;
Lvl 1 - Sorcerer
Lvl 2 - Abjurant Champion
Lvl 3 - Abjurant Champion
Lvl 4 - Abjurant Champion
Lvl 5 - Abjurant Champion
Lvl 6 - Abjurant Champion
Lvl 7 - Dragon Slayer
Lvl 8 - SpellSword

Feats needed - Dodge, Iron Will, Combat Casting.

I'd also take a look at going Ur-Priest instead. 8th level spells at 20th tends to be very nice.... And doing the DMM tricks with 8 extra turnings from your race tends to be just gravy!

[One Step Two]

Just for something different, I'm going to just Mention the Warshaper. Even for a single level dip, when you are in a shape other than your own form, you're immune to stuns and critical hits.

There is also the Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) which I find awesomely thematic

Otherwise, I do like the thematic idea of actually Using Ur-priest stealing power from gods of good, hide as a nun, and cast divine spells, mess with Paladins in a fierce way.

Edit: If going the Ur-Priest Route, I recommend spending a feat on Dynamic Priest, which lets you use your Charisma instead of Wisdom as your primary casting stat for divine spells.

[Kazumi]

Well you could always go Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5. That'd get you +7 BAB, a bunch of nifty abilities. Although it's not quite what you want thematically it would dramatically improve your combat abilities. I don't remember how bad the Suel entry requirements are though, but I imagine Outsider HD could certainly get you there.

I'm not a big fan of Suel Arcanamage, but I absolutely love Abjurant Champion. With outsider HD, I'll have the BaB to actually get a decent caster level out of the deal. Thanks for showing it to me.

[Kazumi]

Instead of Sorceror, use Suel Arcanamach for faster progression, if you really want spells.

If not, Mindspy gives you Cha-related combat bonuses (though capped in that case), as does aforementioned Battle Dancer, and Marshal as well.

While a Succubus, consider grabbing a Necrotic Focus weapon and feats that enhance your energy drain. In particular, Life Drain from Libris Mortis lets you add your Cha to the hit points drained.

Edit: Ninja'd on the Arcanamach.

I was definitely planning on taking Necrotic Focus, but I'm not familiar with any feats for boosting my level drain. I do like the idea of Life Drain, though.

[AMFV]

I'm not a big fan of Suel Arcanamage, but I absolutely love Abjurant Champion. With outsider HD, I'll have the BaB to actually get a decent caster level out of the deal. Thanks for showing it to me.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?181091-PrCs-with-Independant-Spell-Progression

Also this, that may be of some help even if the table no longer works as nicely. Those are all interesting options.

[Kazumi]

Just for something different, I'm going to just Mention the Warshaper. Even for a single level dip, when you are in a shape other than your own form, you're immune to stuns and critical hits.

There is also the Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) which I find awesomely thematic

Otherwise, I do like the thematic idea of actually Using Ur-priest stealing power from gods of good, hide as a nun, and cast divine spells, mess with Paladins in a fierce way.

Edit: If going the Ur-Priest Route, I recommend spending a feat on Dynamic Priest, which lets you use your Charisma instead of Wisdom as your primary casting stat for divine spells.

My DM might be a little iffy on Ur-priest, but I'll definitely look into Warshaper and Master of Masks, thank you!

[Kazumi]

Make no mistake. Although the idea of a paladin (whatever the variant) is that of a man clad in heavy armor, the concept of a paladin and the ethos it follows need not come clad in such heavy rainments.

Succubi are perhaps some of the most evil demons in the abyss. It is because of the statement you have made that they are even more sinister and malicious- they are able to deceive people into believing that.

Love the flavor, and agree with you on the 'evil' part, but from a technical standpoint any good act violates the evil paladin variant's code of conduct, and being that restricted wouldn't be worth the benefits.