Giving Paladins the spellcasting progression of Bards

[Asteron]

I was considering giving the Paladin class the same spellcasting progress that the Bard gets. Is that a good/bad idea?

If it's a good idea what spells would you think are appropriate for the 5th and 6th levels for both 3.5 and PF?


5: Disrupting Weapon, Righteous Might, Hallow, True Seeing, Dispel Evil, Commune, Surge of Fortune
6: Heal, Planar Ally, Banishment, Dictum, Holy Word




5: Disrupting Weapon, Righteous Might, Hallow, True Seeing, Commune, Serenity, Cleanse
6: Heal, Planar Ally, Banishment, Dictum, Holy Word, Joyful Rapture



I'll update the lists with suggestions as they come in.

[Aegis013]

It'd be fine if you substantially expand their spell list and, maybe, limit or ban Sword of the Arcane Order and Battle Blessing. 6th level swift action casting could be pretty crazy depending on spells available. Sword of the Arcane Order is pretty well the same as combining it with Mystic Ranger... you just get a kind of mini-Wizard who likely ignores the other parts of their class.

One spell I've always felt should be a Paladin spell is Surge of Fortune.

[prufock]

5: Disrupting Weapon, Righteous Might, Command, Hallow, True Seeing, Mark of Justice, Dispel Evil, Commune
6: Heal, Planar Ally, Banishment, Dictum, Holy Word

[Asteron]

5: Disrupting Weapon, Righteous Might, Command, Hallow, True Seeing, Mark of Justice, Dispel Evil, Commune
6: Heal, Planar Ally, Banishment, Dictum, Holy Word

Good suggestions for both sides.

Couple of things: Mark of Justice and Dispel Evil are on the Paladin list as 4th level spells. Command is a 1st level spell... shouldn't it remain so even if added to the Paladin list? It fits very flavorfully though!


It'd be fine if you substantially expand their spell list and, maybe, limit or ban Sword of the Arcane Order and Battle Blessing. 6th level swift action casting could be pretty crazy depending on spells available. Sword of the Arcane Order is pretty well the same as combining it with Mystic Ranger... you just get a kind of mini-Wizard who likely ignores the other parts of their class.

One spell I've always felt should be a Paladin spell is Surge of Fortune.

I don't anticipate a whole lot of abuse like that at our table. I'm the biggest optimizer and I've never even looked at those classes.

Great spell suggestion though!

[prufock]

Couple of things: Mark of Justice and Dispel Evil are on the Paladin list as 4th level spells. Command is a 1st level spell... shouldn't it remain so even if added to the Paladin list? It fits very flavorfully though!

Good catches. I missed MoJ and DE somehow; it's been a while since I've played a paladin. Command was meant to be Greater Command, though I don't see any issue with adding the lesser version to the paladin list.

[sideswipe]

giving paladin cleric spell list up to 4th i believe might be enough to make it more versatile. the problem is that for the most part it only has cleric 3 spells as its top level ones. some orisons are 1st level paladin spells

[AMFV]

giving paladin cleric spell list up to 4th i believe might be enough to make it more versatile. the problem is that for the most part it only has cleric 3 spells as its top level ones. some orisons are 1st level paladin spells

But they also have some very powerful unique spells as well.

[Segev]

But they also have some very powerful unique spells as well.

Other than Holy Sword, which is dramatically weakened by the fact that a paladin probably has a magic weapon of his own by the time he can cast it, what spells are you thinking of?

[Shieldbunny]

Holy Aura as 6th, Greater Dispel Magic at 5th(same as bard), and add Heroism and Greater Heroism at 2 and 5.

[AMFV]

Other than Holy Sword, which is dramatically weakened by the fact that a paladin probably has a magic weapon of his own by the time he can cast it, what spells are you thinking of?

There are a couple, mostly they're thematic, Angelskin, Blessing of Bahamut, they get access to some wizard spells without SotAO. There's not a lot but there are a few.

[Segev]

I always found Angelskin and Blessing of Bahamut to be underwhelming for the level at which you can cast them, myself. Am I overlooking something?

[Shieldbunny]

Other than Holy Sword, which is dramatically weakened by the fact that a paladin probably has a magic weapon of his own by the time he can cast it, what spells are you thinking of?

I miss 3.0 Holy Sword. Turns any weapon into a hammer of thunderbolts vs. evil critters.

[Cowardly Griffo]

Possibly off-theme, but I'd be inclined to give them the Bard spell list as well, if they were a Paladin of Freedom and/or served Olidammara. :smallcool:

...Great, now I've got another one for the character shelf.

[Psyren]

Don't forget that if you do this, they should probably have orisons as well, and 20/20 CL.

I would check the Inquisitor list. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---inquisitor) For instance, I'd expect a more "casty" Paladin - a paragon of Law and Good - to probably have Dictum and Holy Word as 6ths.

[gorfnab]

5th: Atonement, Revivify
6th Geas/Quest, Heroes Feast