What level party can handle a Lich?

[Stuvius]

Hi All

I am a relatively new DM currently planning my second campaign. I am writing a story in which a lich as one of the main enemies would fit nicely however I am unsure if my party can handle him. I project they would be at lvl 9 by the time they encountered him. This is a core campaign (3.5E) with a few exceptions approved by me. I thought perhaps I could build him on a slightly powered down scale from the example in the MM. Thoughts?

As always, thanks for the advice. I appreciate the input.

[Kazudo]

Well, strictly speaking, "Lich" is a template that simply adds +2 to the CR of an encounter.

What creature would you be putting the template onto, assuming, say, someone else made his phylactery for him (basically fudging out the part about each lich having to make his own)? Otherwise, the encounter is at very least 11th level + LA 4.

[Teapot Salty]

A "level nine lich" should not be to much trouble, since they would essentially be a wizard with a d12 hitdice, dr, and resistances and cool natural attacks. If handled correctly, I don't think they would be troubled to to much by it. But if everybody carries a slashing weapon and no one has magic, then all of a sudden that fight got very hard. But you might want to give them a few potions of remove paralysis.

To summarize, a level 5 wizard with the lich template shouldn't be to much of a problem for the party. A level 9 wizard with the lich template would be a challenge.

[Segev]

If you go by the RAW, a level 9 party should find a Lich who is a 7th level wizard to be a challenge which consumes roughly 1/4 of their resources in overcoming it.

This is because an NPC has a CR equal to his class levels, and a Lich has a CR of 2 greater than the base creature (in this case a 7th level NPC). So a Lich who is a 7th level wizard of a basic, no LA race is CR 9.

[Inevitability]

The main problem is that liches are at least CL 11, something that most of the time means that you'll be putting a CR +2 template on top of something that is already CR 11. If you have tricks to get around that, make the encounter CR 10 or 11, I'd say.

[Kazudo]

caster level of 11th or higher


Or just had a prodigious amount of CL buffs.

Edit: And realistically, substitute out 4 levels of wizard for 4 levels in something else and take Practiced Spellcaster. 4 levels in Monk would even work, detract from the T1 spellcasting and limit its other choices.

[ArqArturo]

To be honest, liches should never be encountered alone, even if they are loners. And a lich should never be underestimated.

A lich is usually a mid or a high-level character to begin with; motivated enough to commit the worse of atrocities in order to become immortal. It has paid the price with blood (more often than not, someone else's), written the runes, chanted the words, and enclosed his or her soul into a physical, sturdy object, which should be enchanted with the most obscenely optimized incantations to make it hard to find, hard to get a hold of (by anyone other than the lich), and hard to destroy. A lich is no longer human; having your soul forcibly ripped out of the mortal coil is not natural; it is a depraved, cruel, paranoid thing, and quite possibly is thinking far ahead, farther than your average murderhobo. It eats murderhobos for breakfast and rises them as undead minions, with their class features so they're useful (unless they're dragon shamans, then they serve better as mindless undead).

So yeah, treat every lich encounter as a potential threat to either a small kingdom, a region, or the Mortal Plane.

[Kazudo]

I have actually run a "Stupid Lich" once. There's no stat requirement for the thing after all. The guy was a moron. Wanted Lichdom so that he'd have more time to spend as a blacksmith. It was pretty hilarious.

[ArqArturo]

I have actually run a "Stupid Lich" once. There's no stat requirement for the thing after all. The guy was a moron. Wanted Lichdom so that he'd have more time to spend as a blacksmith. It was pretty hilarious.

You have broken my spirit, good sir :smallamused:.

[Inevitability]

I have actually run a "Stupid Lich" once. There's no stat requirement for the thing after all. The guy was a moron. Wanted Lichdom so that he'd have more time to spend as a blacksmith. It was pretty hilarious.

How did he meet the casting requirements?

[hymer]

potions of remove paralysis.

Eh? What good are those?

[ArqArturo]

Eh? What good are those?

In Pathfinder there's a small construct called Iron Cobra (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/cobra-constructs/iron-cobra), its bite can place liquids in special reservoirs, mostly poison but also potions. Just give it a command that, in case of X, bite me.

[Kazudo]

How did he meet the casting requirements?

Hmm.



Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher.

------That feat's description------

Prerequisite

Caster level 3rd.


Simple. He was a Cleric 3/Fighter 4 with Practiced Spellcaster (7) an Orange Prism Ioun Stone (8), a Magical Tattoo put on him for whatever reason, (9) and a Candle of Invocation (11)

...Or whatever. I don't remember, and honestly it could have just been a fiat. He was a funny character to have to kill since he was still evil undead.

[Urpriest]

In general, a Lich has to be an 11th level character. Remember, when you're making the main enemy of a campaign using a template you generally don't just want to use the example character.

[Psyren]

Whatever you decide, try not to have them face him alone. Most times, lone monsters are either pushovers or TPKs with middle ground a rarity.