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Jon_Dahl
2014-07-18, 07:57 AM
I was just curious about one thing concerning various mythologies in RPGs...
Many of the deities in several campaign (fantasy) worlds are married. Have any of them ever divorced?

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 09:49 AM
Lolth and Corellon could be said to have divorced, when he exiled her to the Abyss (in Forgotten Realms elven mythology).

Kalmageddon
2014-07-18, 12:58 PM
Not in any fantasy setting that I can recall.
The concept of divorce is a fairly recent thing, and seeing how most fantasy worlds are set in the Middle Ages or similar time periods, it would be fairly anachronistic for the gods to have a divorce as we undestand it today.
On the other hand, tragic separations and catastrophic domestic abuses are fairly common.

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 02:20 PM
Actually it existed in ancient Greece and ancient Rome (and I think I even read about it existing in ancient Egypt) - it's just that it got much rarer in medieval times.

AGow95
2014-07-18, 02:28 PM
The Deities and Demigods book says that in the Asgardian Pantheon the Vanir deity Njord, god of the sea, married the giantess Skadi, a mountain deity, and then later divorced her, so it sometimes happens I guess.

Kalmageddon
2014-07-18, 02:31 PM
Actually it existed in ancient Greece and ancient Rome (and I think I even read about it existing in ancient Egypt) - it's just that it got much rarer in medieval times.

We are talkning about fantasy settings, not real life cultures.

Yora
2014-07-18, 02:35 PM
I can't really think of any setting in which deities marry.

tomandtish
2014-07-18, 02:41 PM
From an Egyptian Marriage Contract (http://historykicksass.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/an-egyptian-marriage-contract-from-172-bc/)172 BC:

Relevant part:

This example is written on papyrus in demotic script. In the contract the husband agrees to pay a stipulated amount of money within thirty days in the event of divorce. [...] On the reverse of the papyrus is a list of eight witnesses to the contract.

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 02:47 PM
We are talkning about fantasy settings, not real life cultures.


The concept of divorce is a fairly recent thing
If it's not recent - then it may not be inappropriate in fantasy settings.

Millennium
2014-07-18, 03:06 PM
Actually it existed in ancient Greece and ancient Rome (and I think I even read about it existing in ancient Egypt) - it's just that it got much rarer in medieval times.
It existed, yes, but even in cultures where divorce existed, myths about deities divorcing seem to be almost unheard of. Even Hera, who had just about the least faithful husband ever, never divorces him. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one definite case: Njord and Skadi, from Norse mythology. Izanagi and Izanami, from Shinto, might be another case, but there are some factors that make it a grey area.

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 03:17 PM
It crops up now and then.

Hephaestus is said to have divorced Aphrodite. Hera is not Zeus's first wife. And so forth.

It may also occur in Hindu mythology. At least, that's what I get when I Google it.

JusticeZero
2014-07-18, 03:21 PM
Well, the other thing is that marriage is not actually related to love. At least for the elite, you get married for political reasons, and if you like them, it's a bonus. If not, it's pretty much expected, and nobody will blink at that pretty "advisor" you spend a lot of time consulting with.

Kalmageddon
2014-07-18, 04:08 PM
If it's not recent - then it may not be inappropriate in fantasy settings.

I specifically talked about Middle Ages inspired fantasy.

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 04:23 PM
Huge pantheons of gods though, weren't really a thing in Middle Age Europe.

Hecuba
2014-07-18, 04:30 PM
Hera is not Zeus's first wife.

Well, to be fair, that example was more uxoricide (and uxorphagia, if I'm allowed to mix my roots) than divorce. There are way more headaches if you try to go that route.

hamishspence
2014-07-18, 04:36 PM
It was phrased as "Zeus married and divorced 6 times before Hera" when I looked it up - but the description may have been simplifying things.

As to anachronism - D&D is full of it - can't see why "divorce" would be a deal-breaker.

Kalmageddon
2014-07-18, 04:59 PM
Huge pantheons of gods though, weren't really a thing in Middle Age Europe.

"Inspired", not "carbon copy". :smallconfused:
You must know what I'm talking about, surely.

Arbane
2014-07-18, 06:26 PM
Well, to be fair, that example was more uxoricide (and uxorphagia, if I'm allowed to mix my roots) than divorce. There are way more headaches if you try to go that route.

Is that a pun?

Not quite a divorce, but I've had a fantasy setting roll9ing around in my head for a while where magic only works well at night-time and most monsters avoid daylight like poison... because the Goddess of Night (Also goddess of magic, mysteries, and chaos) and the Sun God (also god of civilization, logic, and warfare) had a falling out back in mythical times and haven't spoken since. (Their daughter, the Moon, visits them both and tries futiley to get them to reconcile.)

bulbaquil
2014-07-18, 07:15 PM
I'm now getting a strange idea where the reason the world doesn't go Tippyverse is because one of the jilted gods deliberately keeps the world's power level down so that the other will be less likely to want to claim it in the divorce proceedings....

Slipperychicken
2014-07-18, 07:31 PM
I'm now getting a strange idea where the reason the world doesn't go Tippyverse is because one of the jilted gods deliberately keeps the world's power level down so that the other will be less likely to want to claim it in the divorce proceedings....

Or the spouse of the god of magic destroyed most of the world's magic in a tantrum, after hearing her husband was cheating on her.

Or quarreling gods fought over a lover, leaving many ley lines damaged or destroyed in the chaos.

ChaosArchon
2014-07-18, 11:16 PM
It existed, yes, but even in cultures where divorce existed, myths about deities divorcing seem to be almost unheard of. Even Hera, who had just about the least faithful husband ever, never divorces him. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one definite case: Njord and Skadi, from Norse mythology. Izanagi and Izanami, from Shinto, might be another case, but there are some factors that make it a grey area.
Well Hera is the goddess of marriage so I feel like she at least would be very much so against divorce, most likely seeing it as an anathema to her very being.

Slipperychicken
2014-07-18, 11:26 PM
Well Hera is the goddess of marriage so I feel like she at least would be very much so against divorce, most likely seeing it as an anathema to her very being.

Besides, she's married to the King of Gods, whose job is to arbitrate disputes between the gods. Something tells me divorce isn't the best idea for her.

Jammyamerica
2014-07-19, 01:31 AM
Huge pantheons of gods though, weren't really a thing in Middle Age Europe. Nice Thread!!

hamishspence
2014-07-19, 01:59 AM
"Inspired", not "carbon copy". :smallconfused:
You must know what I'm talking about, surely.

If only the most superficial trappings of 'medieval times' are used - why should the late medieval avoidance of divorce come into it?

Coidzor
2014-07-19, 02:23 AM
I can't remember any additional examples, but I always liked doing a bit of tweaking and having Bahamut and Tiamat be divorced. Adds even more bitterness and recrimination to the mix.

hamishspence
2014-07-19, 02:24 AM
I can't remember any additional examples, but I always liked doing a bit of tweaking and having Bahamut and Tiamat be divorced. Adds even more bitterness and recrimination to the mix.
Keeping the "they are siblings" background piece as well? Or chucking that one?

Coidzor
2014-07-19, 02:48 AM
Keeping the "they are siblings" background piece as well? Or chucking that one?

Of course, they were created to be sibling-mates by Io.

Sith_Happens
2014-07-19, 03:23 AM
Of course, they were created to be sibling-mates by Io.

So Io is now the dragon god of incest?:smalltongue:

LibraryOgre
2014-07-19, 02:41 PM
Someone has mentioned Njord and Skadi already, as a real-world example.

The gods of any world you design are going to behave as they wish. For example, in the Forgotten Realms, Helm and Mystra were a thing before the Time of Troubles... maybe not married, but definitely a thing. But Helm killed Mystra when she tried to ascend the Celestial Staircase, which is pretty much the most final form of divorce you can ask for.

Divorce has been a thing through a lot of history, but as others have pointed out, the upper classes didn't marry for love. Divorces tended to involve siege weapons, where the rule wasn't outright polygamy.

ChaosArchon
2014-07-19, 02:52 PM
Divorces tended to involve siege weapons, where the rule wasn't outright polygamy.

I find this immensely hilarious for some reason :smalltongue:

Hecuba
2014-07-20, 01:52 PM
It was phrased as "Zeus married and divorced 6 times before Hera" when I looked it up - but the description may have been simplifying things.

Accurate for some myths. Usually, however, only Metis and Hera are described his wives: the rest just happen to bear his children.
In particular, all but the earliest myths involving Leto and Zeus indicate that Hera ran Leto into exile because she was upset about the affair(/seduction/rape).

In some cases, even Metis gets such a treatment (the non marriage portion: she almost exclusively predates Hera's rule), but heavy Athenian influence tended legitimize Athena's conception in most versions.


Is that a pun?
Yes.
It was brief marriage. We all know the story.

God meets Goddess.
Goddess changes into many animals and flees. God relentlessly chases down Goddess. Marriage is consummated.
God's mother sends a prophesy that Goddesses's offspring will overthrow their father.
God "swallowed her down suddenly [...] putting her away in his belly."

9 months later, God has splitting headache: calls his doctor/friend/blacksmith (it varies).
With the aid of hammer and wedge (or occasionally a double-headed battle-axe), God give birth to Daughter through hole in head.
Daughter emerges fully grown, armed, and wearing armor.

Incidentally, it's not the last time Zeus gives birth.

Coidzor
2014-07-20, 04:47 PM
So Io is now the dragon god of incest?:smalltongue:

What's fantasy creatures without a bit of alien squickyness, after all?

I never said I thought his plan was a good idea. It was a pretty bad one all around. :P If gods can get drunk and say "hey, y'all, lookit this!" this would have been one of those moments.

MrNobody
2014-07-21, 04:18 AM
Well Hera is the goddess of marriage so I feel like she at least would be very much so against divorce, most likely seeing it as an anathema to her very being.

To be fair, in ancient greek/roman religion, deities where often protectors of their "portfolio" (just to use a D&Dish term) but had also power on their opposition.
The best example are Hermes - Mercury (that protected travellers and merchants but also thieves and robbers), Aesculapius (god of healing that was also patron of poisonous snakes) or Poseidon - Neptune (god of seas patron of earthquakes - not tsunamis- and earth creatures like bulls and horses).
That said, I think it wouldn't have been too strange for an ancient Greek or Roman call up the protection of Hera - Iuno during a divorce.

Jay R
2014-07-21, 07:34 PM
Is that a pun?

Not quite a divorce, but I've had a fantasy setting roll9ing around in my head for a while where magic only works well at night-time and most monsters avoid daylight like poison... because the Goddess of Night (Also goddess of magic, mysteries, and chaos) and the Sun God (also god of civilization, logic, and warfare) had a falling out back in mythical times and haven't spoken since. (Their daughter, the Moon, visits them both and tries futiley to get them to reconcile.)

That's a great concept, but it doesn't require divorce. Unmarried people have fallings out. Married people have fallings out, leave each other forever, and remain married.

Since you seem nervous about the divorce part, get rid of it, and keep the cool setting.